Class wrong on HWS?

I have spawned 1 ship and 2 tanks to try and they are all Class 1. Resaved them and tryed again… still class 1.

I am still getting warnings for having class 2…

Name of ships is Storm 1 , Tank 1 , Tank 2

All on GG…


Same thing here

@zappe21 I flew on sv, 1st class, the base attack part of the cubes killed my ship became 3 class, check all cubes on the ship.
In General, it is impossible to fight, when you reload guns lost ammo from the ammo, the ship is damaged it becomes another class and the server swears.
After that, lost all desire to fly even 1 cube killed you have sv 2 class complete nonsense in General :frowning_face:

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The counter we get from the game isn’t correct for the tool (API). Do not bother the warnings for now. Nothing will happen.

I understand that at the moment does not work, but the fact that after the destruction with sv about 50 blocks it becomes a class 3 is not normal. During the battle, the server may remove sv ( in future if everything will remain as it is now) .

But finaly how we will fight later? If i have class 1 SV very close to the class 2 and my sv take some damage and become a class 2.? If tool do not delete it SV someone can freely fight on SV class 3 lol. And i cant find a solution. Devs make again great thing! They do first, then think. LOL.

I tested my CV in creative. It is class 3. (class 3 in calculator = from 2.51 to 3.49 points, my ship have 3.2 points - i make it with some reserve) After couple minutes of fighting against heavy armed base and taking damage my ship become class 5. LOL. This is a dead end. I write to the devs later - JUST remove trash blocks (pyramids, connector etc) or make it more “heavy” in triangle count. But they make again bull “waste”. And last patch - i’ma fall down under the table! AGAIN this OLD bug with reloading and dissaper ammo. LOL.

And another thing IDK how the engine rendering all this triangles but my biggest ship with 40k blocks build from cube blocks inside cause more lags for me than it ship build with inside pyramids “armor”. With pyramids it is class 11. With cube blocks it class 7.
IMPERION CLASS (7.1 KB) Excel class calculator

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Hey somebody admits it!? I’ve been trying to tell the server this. Go inside a ship covered in round connectors… Check your FPS and then do the same with pyramids/square blocks. Last test I did, I had the least lag in pyramids. The reason Eleon did this is because people told them pyramids were horrible and they believed them… GG now look at all this, people have to deal with. I’ve been using pyramids for a long time now, FPS has always been the same. “Bought new computer and I have like no lag at all, it’s 100% true can prove it as well” it sucks the ammo bug is back… Another reason to stay away from the game until everything is fixed.

Colin comparing pyramids to round connectors isnt really a valid comparison here. If you want to see the downside to the pyramid guts, make a giant CV, like 20k minimum blocks, one out of pyramids, and one out of solid blocks. Then see which one renders better. Round connectors obviously have more triangles than pyramids, and they are penalized even more heavily than pyramids by this change. As for

this^ I would need to see the data on this test. Because chances are it is not a one to one comparison. Unless you are saying you replaced 40 THOUSAND blocks, and are seeing this effect.

All I’m getting at is like he said up top “devs do first then think” no point in ruining pyramids.

But that is just it, in this one instance, this was not “ruining pyramids”. It was correcting an error in the class formula that improperly rewarded additional rendered triangles, while penalizing properly meshed ones. It made the Class formula inaccurate. Bright side, now that it is accurate, we have a better baseline for actual performance at specific classes, rather than it varying based on who built it. Once it was clarified that it did count the rendered triangles, I see nothing negative about this change. If you want to keep using pyramids, do so. But the extra whitespace comes at a cost, not just to performance (slightly) as it always has, but also to class size.

Not all 40k blocks. My ships have 30-40% of armor with pyramids in critical points to defence from lagshots (before 6.6 now only 3-5%). Devices do more heavy hit to the perfomance.

But i’am tell not about it - we have now real problem! Yeah new class formula is good! We can build more big ships. But without anti lagshot protection (lag shoots is fixed not all but is more good than before).

Servers who use class rectriction now in a difficult position (especial with HWS tool) because we build ship in some class but after it taking some damage it class will grow! If the server will delete it ships after 5-10 minutes it is not good. But if server don’t delete it - we have another exploit. Spawn 1 class rebuild it to class 10 (for example :slight_smile:). And we do not have the solution of this problem. Every hull damage forced ship in class.(before you kill half of the ship).

I see some solutions - keep new class formula but they need add some class freeze “tool”. If block count do not grow - class cant grow (just compare with origin BP).

Or they need keep old class formula but forced “heavy” for perfomance blocks in triangles count. Just make a pyramid = 15 virtual triagles and all ppl forget how to use it massevly. BTW idk for what they implement this trash blocks. Another stupied "flowers.

Ya, Right now not a priority since the tool will not be repossessing ships due to class size change. But it is not nearly as dangerous as you think. Repossession takes a little over an hour of warnings, as long as you didnt have warning before the fight. In that hour you can disengage, fly out and either amputate some parts, or replace cratered out blocks to get back in class. I mentioned this in General last week when the formula was first released.

[LoT] mcprouty - Last Friday at 12:07 PM
the count now is all triangles on all blocks
after patch it is (theoretically) only the rendered bits
AndreV - Last Friday at 12:07 PM
I think some of mine will come down
[LoT] mcprouty - Last Friday at 12:07 PM
So a structure completely made of whitespacing blocks, will be the same, if it uses normal blocks, it will be lower
The only wierd thing with this is that it is POSSIBLE that a ship can take damage and go to a higher class…
but thats a fringe case
AndreV - Last Friday at 12:09 PM
very fringe case :smiley:
[LoT] mcprouty - Last Friday at 12:10 PM
well. Literally anyone who makes a max size cube will class up on damage
atleast until enough blocks are removed
but anything but big flat areas will be fine
AndreV - Last Friday at 12:11 PM
you sure the damaged blocks coming off won’t balance the cubes underneath?
[LoT] mcprouty - Last Friday at 12:11 PM
Think bout it, you got a big sheet of 2 triangles per block, because one face is visible(edited)
on block comes out, two triangles removed from the count, yes(edited)

Long term though, we could maybe allow larger classes in pve or designated areas, like ECC. To give a place you can retreat to to perform class size critical repairs, without repo issues.

Dunno why people keep suggesting this. There is nothing inherently evil about a pyramid block. In the right situations, it can be less performance intensive than a cube. Using is as the only block shape as a filler, is not that case. But the same can be said of literally any block shape other than solid. There is no need to penalize a shape just because you dont like it, if Eleon has successfully found a way for class size to match performance hit, as they have done.

If tool give a one hour. I can build 4 class SV and kill everything on GG and Homeworld . So. Dead end.

And again i DONT understand why ppl want higher class on PVE!? If 1class SV can kill one fully armed base in PVP for what they need more? PVE zones is a trash zones and it always filled up. If we have 200 structures 4 class or 3 class - do we have perfomance difference = YES.

And now with new class formula we can build ships +40% more big in the same class. I rebuild my battle ship. It regular class is 4. For 5.5 i rebuild it to 3 class and have some “free” slots for additional devices. Now i rebuild it again (remove white space but keep it in critical points) it is 3 class and again have some free space for devices. At the end we have the same class but with more devices, And in the last versions devs decide that devices hit perfomance and count only devices in class calculation.

IMHO for this game OLD formula will be more good (1 class SV will be perfect) but with only change - add more virtual triangles for “wite space blocks”.

And some information for thinking.

On the scr’s we have 10 CV 18k blocks Old class 3, new class 7 (80% is whitespace blocks).

And 10 CV 33k blocks old class7, new class4 no whitespace blocks.

Just look at FPS. What we have? 10 class4 (without whitespace) CV’s make more big impact to the perfomance then 10 class7 CV (with pyramids). SO? Class it is bullshit!? real triangles it is bull shit!?. Game perfomance it is something another! All of us were deceived. :sweat_smile: :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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LOL I love you, thanks for posting that. Pretty ships! @A.F.T I did the exact same test, same results. I had 15 ships cut In half made of nothing but pyramids and it didn’t move my FPS at all. People are full of shit and got killed by ships made out of triangles so they cried for changes hoping it would affect their PVP gameplay and it won’t. Yes triangles should have been lower triangle count to begin with, but in all honesty what were they hurting? Not performance that’s for damn sure!

While I get that, in your experience, your computer is able to overcome the effect that Pyramids may have on the rendering of a ship, the benefits of the class calculation change are nearly irrefutable. Rendering several layers of empty space is, logically, more difficult than rendering meshed blocks. Your computer(s) may be able to overcome that, but that doesn’t mean that the change was BS in my opinion. I have a decent computer and haven’t done much (read: any) testing on this, but the logic is pretty sound.

Spawning 15 ships in creative is NOT the same as having 15 ships fighting each other in a PvP setting - not even remotely. Saying that people should just get better computers, while technically correct, isn’t really a possibility for most people. Eleon just needs to spend some time optimizing, which is typically one of the last things to occur in development.

Just my take on it. Not trying to call you out or anything.

You post have no sense. Bacause class1 and class20 can have only 34 turrets. So more ship more turrets more shells more lags.

But i try to continue my thinking. I start used sloope blocks from pre alpha - yeah i think iam the first who use it like antilagshot protection (i never see other ship with it) Then afted devs add new formula with triagles lights all ppl start use pyramids and etc - for reduce class of the ship and have good lagshoot armor. But pyramids have two side like a coin. The main goal is lagshoot protection but other side is - we can build more big ship when use it (before 6.6). When we build more big ship we can put more blocks and more devices. So lets get back to my test. One ship have 278 dev. 2light 33k blocks and it class 4. Other ship is class7 but have only 18k blocks and 215 devices.

And what we see?! We see that the real hit to perfomance goes from block count (real or virtual triangles it is doesnt matter! game calculate all this blocks) and devices count. Class is not important (and remember PKA Teddy bear box class3 build from pyramids and have 30k blcoks - it is killer by lags ship) more important is blocks count and devices count. Maybe i am not right but i think it is reality.

So at the end i dont support building ship full of pyramids - we still have some wild lagshoots but it ships is heavy for perfomance sometimes. But new class system is fail, It system cant help us to avoid lags. And it add more problems to HWS server. Becaus RexXxus want make some rescrictions but how he can provide it?! If our ship after some good damage can grow in it class?!

SOLUTION!? New is well forgotten old! HWS just ned remember the past and impliment a blocks count restriction! For example - 2k blocks for SV 20k blocks for CV. 3k blocks for HV. And add only 10 minutes delay before it waste by server. )

I agree if Eleon took some time to optimize people wouldn’t need super computers to run this game and PVP in this game.

Yeah optimizations is poor. I cannot play on max setting.

But my PC have: 16GB fast RAM, overcloked corei7 4400Mhz, fast SSD, powerfull motherboard, and SLI 780ti.
Maybe 1080ti SLI can help me but in Russia i need waste 2300 USD for it.

Yes, they were absolutely hurting performance. It affected the rendering of structures. It didn’t hurt your performance because you were in the structure so it was already rendered.

Try looking at it from the point of view of the person you fly up on with your ship made of all triangles. While you are still performing just fine because it’s already rendered, the other person you are creeping up on will have a long pause as soon as your ship renders for them.

It was a huge performance thing.

And yes, even with an awesome computer it was still a problem. It’s not leaps and bounds better now, but it’s better.

More importantly, the size class calculations were wrong until now.