Discussion about rules

So I was looking around the general forums of the game and ran across this thread, thought it would be a nice overview of a problem that could potentially be brewing regarding PvP factions (and non-PvP factions)

http://empyriononline.com/threads/the-story-of-nac-and-east-coast-cigar-galaxy-and-why-you-should-avoid-this-server.5773/

So, as far as I’m aware (correct me if I’m wrong Rex) no one has actually been banned for any rule violations since the server started in Alpha. Now I know me and my faction has lost a lot of stuff, and honestly I’m not mad about it as it’s PvP and part of the game is as such, but the numbers game should be something to consider seeing as the one type of faction seems pretty overbearing over all other factions (admittedly because of the inaction of another). How do we determine “griefing”? How do we determine when something is truly “destroyed”? There are a lot of ways to answer this question, and honestly none of them seem consistent on this server, based on the people I talk to. There’s a lot of chat about one particular faction which has been constantly attacking others, and I think it’s important that we all discuss whether it is griefing or is it PvP? For this I’m truly not gonna take part in aside from stir discussion, but I think it’s something the server should discuss as to when PvP goes too far or whether it’s just part of the game.

Rexxus might have a clear definition, but honestly I’ve seen the rules not actually enforced (at least not in game) since I joined, and honestly doesn’t bode well for a server to not follow it’s own stated rules. I think it’s also important for the players to have some say in how the rules are defined though, which is why I think this is worth a discussion.

I also would like to know the Traders opinion on PvP. Do you participate? should you? to what extent should that participation be? Obviously some of you aren’t content with being attacked without the ability to fight back, so to that I say it makes sense you take your own initiative on PvP, but what is too far?

Thanks for the opened discussion. Interesting threat over there. I try to write my opinion of that here. Though it might not be finished for now.

First of all let make something clear: PvP means Player versus Player! And that is not a book title it is the action what would come into play: a player sees another player (enemy) and they fight with each other - live. So that is at least my understand and fundament of this discussion and I think that was the purpose of the devs too with the Offline Protection device (which I pushed a bit: steamcommunity.com/app/383120/di … 237988610/)

So when I remember my times just as a normal player in a PvP world, I remember the excitement and adrenaline rush during a dogfight or base fight with others. Who will be the winner? Is my ship good build? Where are my thrusters again? How I need to position my self to protect my weak spots? Where are the vital points of my enemy? And more question ran through my mind in seconds or I would die. THAT is for me a great experience and what PvP stands for. In comparison to Robocraft for example you can’t just start a new match. You will lose! You will lose your time, effort and bit of proud when you lose that fight. There is no “Load the savegame” option - you only have your blueprint in best case.

Ok… now let’s see what real life gives us and what some players think what PvP is for them: killing innocent people or “guilty” person while they are sleeping with bombs or whatever weapon (real life) or raiding bases / ships, searching exploits to overcome OP (Offline Protection) while they are offline.
War is war and there are “no rules”. In real life. In a game I don’t see it that radical. At the end - from where ever you come from you want to have fun. But because “fun” is so crazy subjective I need to limit your fun - sadly. Limit in the way that I say: griefing is not allowed! I want that you feel the adrenaline rush I had. I want that you don’t camp and kill people with exploits. I want that you attack smart and with a tactic and not cause you know that the other guy just started, having bugs or is offline.
If you want resources, raids, there are still POIs around you can loot. I made the universe in such a way that every planet has its resources depending of the location and need. You even can trade with EC on HWS. So raiding cause you needed THAT iron stack is no excuse.
I know some don’t like my point of view regarding that but I think that would increase the gameplay a lot. And if that is not enough I made a kind of role play. Where you can at least chose the role you want to be to can at least justify your attack (Pirate) for example.

It is true Fenra that no one really abused the rules yet (two guys till now who got to prison - before the big wipe). But that is especially the case that 1. HWS has a good community I think and 2. I / we are often friendly with giving ships / resources back where other admins just say: not my business.

Nevertheless I updated / adjusted the rules (empyrion-homeworld.net/rules) again and will enforce them. Some more strict then others but I / we will do. I think if we would not have done that HWS would be more chaos and unpopular?

Regarding Traders. For now the story is not finished with all of these questions. But of course Traders need also a fleet to protect them. Either an Alliance fleet or a selfmade fleet. Would be cool if Empyrion would allow real allys so Alliance turrets does not attack trader ships. So selfdefence is always legit.

I’m surprised you haven’t coded a Friend or Foe (FoF) feature into your server which distinguishes like-factions from attacking each other. However it would be something open to accidental abuse however, so perhaps it might not be a good idea lol

I think I know what this thread is about. Let me try and shed some light on whats been happening in the Uranus system for the past couple of weeks for people that are unaware.

I used to be in Fenras faction before the alpha update but decided to leave when i learned the true nature of his motives (domination under the guise of helping people) and went to do my own thing. I started a base on Uranus with the intention of being a bounty hunter but within hours Fenra with one of his KCA members came with a big CV and tried to intimidate me by attacking my starting base unprovoked whilst i was just a noob.

Before this happened my intention was to stay neutral but after he attacked me and started making demands like not being allowed to have cannons on my base (lol) I decided to team up with the russians after he declared war on me since I was on my own and scared. During this time a few other alliance factions decided to get involved and joined the side of KCA so we decided to preemptively strike them. What is happening is not griefing. It’s not our fault that you started a war and are currently losing.

If you can’t handle the hardcore nature of PVP why are you on a PVP planet? Atleast we are working together to coordinate our attacks, the alliance on the other hand seems more focused on building big fancy bases. Is that our fault? I don’t think so.
We are playing the game how its meant to be played as defined by the servers “story”. I can also assure you that if the tables turn we will not complain about it. As far as I’m concerned its all good fun and have had a lot of enjoyment out of the content so far.

Honestly this is more based on my observations on the server at large, not so much my faction being attacked on Uranus. That said it does make things difficult to fight against if your attacking bases when no one is around to defend them :slight_smile:

The server seems to be fairly fed up with SWP attacks (according to factions with all colors, including some pirate factions), so naturally I’m just poking the idea if there should be some limit to the PvP on the server. Personally I don’t care as much as some people (including those in my faction) do about the loss of bases and ships, it’s PvP, so long as you’re capable of rebuilding it’s no problem. My only nitpick is if you end up dying with no drill and charges to rebuild, and end up being killed every time you log on when someone tries to help, that I might take issue with. However this obviously needs more discussion from different factions, particularly traders and lawless people.

I just wrote a huge post here, but decided against posting it. I do have a question though:

Is the number of structures in a PvE world a problem? Can the number of structures or size of break a playfield? Is this one of the main reasons you do not want PvE playfields?

[quote=“Scruffy”]I just wrote a huge post here, but decided against posting it. I do have a question though:

Is the number of structures in a PvE world a problem? Can the number of structures or size of break a playfield? Is this one of the main reasons you do not want PvE playfields?[/quote]

Yes Scruffy - that is basically the most important thing I am sad to not can provide a full PvE playfield. We had once a very successful gameplay to have Peacekeepers. PvE Orbits where you can park your Ships there (no BA allowed there). It was a time before Offline Protection. With OP we thought it is not necassary anymore. We did not know that it would take nearly 2 months to fix the exploits. The hope is back now.

Anyways I have a good idea for the next universe :slight_smile:

[quote=“RexXxuS”][quote=“Scruffy”]I just wrote a huge post here, but decided against posting it. I do have a question though:

Is the number of structures in a PvE world a problem? Can the number of structures or size of break a playfield? Is this one of the main reasons you do not want PvE playfields?[/quote]

Yes Scruffy - that is basically the most important thing I am sad to not can provide a full PvE playfield. We had once a very successful gameplay to have Peacekeepers. PvE Orbits where you can park your Ships there (no BA allowed there). It was a time before Offline Protection. With OP we thought it is not necessary anymore. We did not know that it would take nearly 2 months to fix the exploits. The hope is back now.

Anyways I have a good idea for the next universe :slight_smile:[/quote]

Pretty much any Idea I come up with regarding PvE playfields will result in large structures and lots of them in PvE playfields. Unless Admin wish to manually police this and enforce a ‘no structures over 10k size (or whatever size)’ rule, I don’t see any way to handle it. The number of structures in a playfield is limited anyway right? I guess I will post my idea’s anyway, and can take whatever from it.

Can you share your good idea for the next universe, and we can give feedback on it before it’s implemented? Giving you feedback on current systems may be completely irrelevant on coming changes.

Yeah - after a time the peacekeeper were so populated with ships that ships just disappeared after a time + <20 FPS in there…
Well the core limit per playfield can only be set globally - too bad. It is 237 I think. We have a good server but don’t know if the game just kills this idea after some time anyways.

Ok, sure. You already know the current Milky Way universe:
[attachment=0]hws-universe.png[/attachment]

My idea is now to add some, not a lot of planets outside of the “ring”. All of them will be PvE. One planet of them will be a starter planet. It will be clearly stated in the description that this planet belongs to the PvE galaxy.
So that PvE galaxy will be over 25 AU away from the milky way. The Milky Way will become full PvP in exchange - EXCEPT Earth.
The thing is: once per week - maybe randomly, maybe announced a wormhole will comes up where people can travel from milky way to the PvE Galaxy or the PvE Guys to Milky Way. But the wormhole will be closed after 12-24 hours again.
So PvE aka sandbox player aka minecraft player aka noobs can chill there and just play peaceful. No Wipes there. No raids there. Every ressource in their own little galaxy.

So what if a pirate or PvP guy invades the PvE galaxy in this wormhole timewindow? Well he is locked there and I think he won’t have fun alone there. So only thing he could do IN the timewindow: mine meteorites etc. and fly back to milky way. But that would cost him >= 100 pentaxit. Don’t worth it I think.
There will be later also more options for that case (teaser: Pirates losing 5000 EC per day on a PvE playfield, etc.) …
What do you think?

Again: that is a little step. More balance things are in progress but really needs hard work + time. Stay tuned.

lol I love the personal dig at PvE players. We are well aware you are anti-PvE Rexxxus, you don’t have to poke it. haha
So right back atcha, PvPer, aka Exploiter, Aka griefer, aka noob. xD

NB: PvE isn’t peaceful, it’s just not vs Player. It’s Vs Environment, which PvE’rs can find challenging and fun. I bet I can make a harder fight than any PvPer will ever get vs a player. :slight_smile:

Able to lock people into a system adds from ways to make it work yes. This won’t really make anything I wish to do in PvE useful though, as the idea is that people can access it. However, it will give those wishing to solely live in PvE an option yes. And if they wish to they can venture into the hostile world of PvP for a week of fun before going back to the safe haven.
A locked PvE also means people can’t run and hide there during ongoing wars with enemy factions. Which again, is a good idea.
Trader’s can’t sell anything while locked in a PvE world
Pirates can’t raid anything while locked in a PvE world
Alliance cannot defend anyone while locked in a PvE world.
So the motivation is not to stay there longer than needed.
BUT it provides a place for someone to ‘park’ while they go on vacation for a week, and not worry about being exploited and raided while they’re gone.

IT will also provide a ‘fallback’ location for when you get completely decimated by enemies. When you loose everything you have in PVP worlds, you can fallback to your PvE world base with starting stuff you left there. and rebuild to enter PvP again. Too many players leave the server when they loose everything (especially the inexperienced who get trampled by bad game mechanics and better PvPers).

I’ll think more on this, and get back to you… see if i can find ways to make it work better for people like me.

I like these ideas, but I’d think a good solution to the PvE area is to make it constantly attacked by aliens now and again. Not just the static drones, but like, multiple waves of drones that attack and attack hard, based on the development of the PvE server. OP would not be relevant to this, all bases woudl be exposed. Why do this?

  1. Playfield cleanup of inactive people
  2. Some combat fun for PvE people/test for their new designs
  3. Deter the idea that it’s a 100% “safe” space.