Serious as it removes, if he already lost everything, you paid attention to the scenario described, 5 ships against one, surely you already lost in one way or another, the question is that the winners will win or not … in your If the loot or even the ship …
I read what you posted. You want there to be zero risk to the defender of losing their blueprint and you want all the materials on board to explode to spite PvP’ers.
It’s bad game design.
1 Like
Do not be innocent, if 5 of your ships attack any other spacecraft that is not prepared for combat, there is hardly any loot left for you, and you know that, only warships survive half an attack of 5 other warships, so That in one way or another almost nothing will be left for you to loot, and maybe you have to reverse engineer to redo the ship if it is your interest …
The number of ships don’t matter. Why would it?
There is only no loot if you destroy the loot in combat. Why are you focusing on the number of ships?
The fun in this game for PvP players is attacking a ship while doing only just barely enough damage to kill it. Then you loot whatever is left and strip the parts to feed your war machine.
Sound to me like you don’t want a full loot game. I hear space engineers is fun…
1 Like
Have to agree with tge PVPErs on this one. At least in the way it’s being described it’s not so much a way to protect your ships design as it is a way to remove the spoils of war in a spiteful move. “If I can’t have you no one will”. And yes, sci fi has had self destruct since the dawn of Sci-fi, but they’re also horribly unreliable and easy to deactivate ;).
Anyway, this I think would be unbalanced gameplay, and that’s from primarily a non-pvper here. Cool idea? But only cuz I’d love to hurt people that hurt me too, but thinking the ability to remove the reward for the effort of chasing and killing you is too much to be balanced.
The whole self destructing ship is a profoundly stupid idea that cuts both ways.
Pirates get killed too - and they tend to have their plunder on them.
It would just create an atmosphere where there are quite literally no winners in a fight. Even now, most PvP results in material losses rather than gains as you are far more likely to find other pvpers looking for a kill with 100% empty cargo boxes than a fat trader. Plus in the odd case where you do find a ship full of cargo, you still got to get it home.
1 Like
While it is not possible to define a specific device to attack, or even parts of the ship, such as Elite Dangerous, where you can mark the entire ship or specific modules of the same and then your weapons will hit only the specific location where the Modulo, which in our current case is the core and only it … Pvp will almost always be losses for everyone, because it is not possible to deactivate a ship without destroying it almost completely.
About blowing up ships, I’d be happy to blow my ship with xanif into it … kkk … lol
Not really the case. In EvE piracy was very profitable if done right.
Even in Empyrion it was profitable when we could reliably catch traders rather than just pirates fighting pirates.
I meant that in the event of attacking a ship to loot, with the current weapon systems, a great chance to destroy ship’s cargo in the process …
It’s actually better now than before.
Either way a chance is better than a total self destruction to spite the victor.
But although you disagree with me, I still consider that it is only a matter of pvp without end to take any profit from the battle and keeping in mind, that a Bp can be a secret militant and extrategia, a ship that you not in the hands of the Enemy, I consider self-destruction something viable … And as I believe in the evolution of empyrion and the evolution of the relationship between groups and factions and in a future dispute for territories, I see a use for such gear in order to avoid that a ship that is superior can be taken By the enemy and be used against me or against my group, if I have within my reach the device I will certainly use …
I don’t like self destruct as ppl could use it to hide exploit ships (ie more ammo turrets) and not be discovered when defeated.
You already can insta warp if you feel your precious bp is in danger.
1 Like
I gotta agree I like the idea of ship capture but mcprouty does make a good point to about charges you place, no guarantee you will succeed as u may die while doing so then the ship is left as it stands, I do disagree with it being a magical button you push and would take alot of the fun and point outta PvP especially for pirates. But while we’re on the subject of explosive I’d like to see a few more variations available such as proximity or user detenatable so once you drop it your automatically equipped with a trigger for said exsplosive
Really if anything I wish sentry continued to run after the ship core/power was killed.
2 Likes
Now that would at least be a challenge with no loot lost… Risk for the reward. But not Poofing the reward because i lost.
Or independent fuel/ammo supply. So they dont just mystery kill you, you have to kill the standalone turrets. Would have to switch sides with the ship though
PvP Balance is a simple thing, You have two apposing parties each party should have the potential to be able to counter anything the other party might do.
Potential doesn’t mean someone made use of a critical piece of tech or strategy, it simply means they could have.
If you want one sided PvP that is assured by the game, go play Eve. I highly encourage the devs of this game to go for balance. Provide the opportunity and the options. If someone uses them great, if they don’t, great, but that choice was theirs to make and how it will affect their game play will their responsibility. Don’t force one side of the conflict to have an upper hand under any conditions. That is the responsibility of the players.
Now that that’s out of the way, Self destruct and explosives:
First, combat steal should take many charges of any standard explosive. I mean who breaks the armor of a tank with a hand grenade? Instead you damage the soft components in order to disable it.
Self destruct. I think this is an important mechanism. But there seems to be a number of arguments of how it could be exploited.
No timer. just a button, do it and die with your ship or don’t.
No Explosive damage, this would resolve several exploit issues, just have the entire structure suddenly loose SI, that’s fairly intense all of it’s own. Containers would all be destroyed along with their contents.
If you don’t want someone using a self destruct you best be good at an ambush and have your fire focused on the pilot. Team play and roles become important here.
While we all like the aspect of timers and explosions doing damage (realistic) we have to factor that people will do and be anything they can so a game has to mitigate issues that unbalance the game and make it so no one will want to play or feel that they can compete.
First off, welcome to the dead thread 
Your analogy makes sense here with grenades. But I can tell you from experience and training that if you drop a charge the size of the one used in empyrion, even with todays technology, it is going to blast a massive hole in that tank, armor, wall, bridge… You get the idea. IF we had grenades, something lobbable, shorter fuse and capable of being deployed on the move, yes I agree it should take a few to take out a wall. But we have a pack of explosives and/or shaped charge, with an 8 second timer, and a stack size smaller than the amount it takes to breach combat steel. That means you have to get RIGHT next to the target, pull out your explosives, and place as many as you can, then wait, then place again. Then if you placed enough, the block will go. Just that one. That is just silly.
When was the last time you were ever able to take out the pilot of a ship that was of a moderate size and intelligent construction, before they would have been able to hit a button, in Empyrion? This is simply not how combat works. Average engagement length is far too long, it simply takes too much time to destroy a ship to be able to say "oh you should kill it before they get a chance to abort. Whole thing is moot anyways, they have explosives blocks in 6, and buttons. A decent combination, if a bit underpowered.
Thanks, normaly I wouldn’t open a dead thread but I was redirected to it …
Based on what information are these shaped explosives? The impact of an explosion on the inside of something is entirely different then when placed on the outside. Yes a shaped charge is going to be better at breaching but it seems some assumptions are being made considering it’s taking more charges then you like to break that block.
Perhaps it’s the expectation that if we’ve achieved warp surely our explosives have evolved as well? I mean who needs explosives when warp technology could be used to to make a mass driver?
Maybe what’s needed is an explanation of the current design/purpose of the explosives from the Devs in order to get to a point where suggestions can be made to help get past the gap of current implementation vs expectation?
Well I think that’s the point entirely. If your argument represented the norm the PvP arguments that were made would not have been made. People like nice looking RP ships over an Intelligent design.
Which also means they are less likely to respond well personally during combat and the choices they make are more likely to leave them fealing like ‘doh’ I should have done ‘this or that instead’ as they are respawning …
Mind you no everyone. People like yourself come prepared and then the PvP’ers don’t get their prize at the end of the battle.
In regards to those explosive blocks and the new trigger system I did point out in discord that it wasn’t much different then a self destruct when it comes to worrying about people building trap ships near resources.
Personally I think the answer to that comes in the code that prevents building. The same check could be done to prevent traps from working in proximity, though that then makes it safer to jump someone unless you prevent combat entirely in proximity.
But imposing limits in a sandbox environment is a slippery slope. I strongly believe you have to avoid giving one side or the other an advantage when imposing limits.