# Lets try and make pvp more fun again. LIMITS for pvp space?
**URL:** https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583
**Category:** HWS General Discussion
**Created:** [August 21, 2016, 8:13am UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583 "2016-08-21T08:13:34Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Fenra369](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Fenra369)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/21 "2016-08-22T23:52:07Z")
Is there a way to tell how many turrets are on a CV? If so, that should be the limiting factor to me regarding PvP, not so much device count (I’m penalized for having things like fuel tanks and o2 this way!). Imo ships which have a certain device count (either blueprint or hand built) should be put into admin control and mediated as to be less lag-inducing, with a warning given to the builder of said ship. The problem with blueprint limit is it’s effectively useless at stopping people from building lag-inducing ships, most ships are literally spammed with turrets every 3x3 block spaces so it’s not stopping anyone from doing that currently.
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### Author:  [@Thranir](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Thranir)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 10:30am UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/22 "2016-08-23T10:30:15Z")
Umm… so you are gonna limit even more the device limit for pvp? i mean soon we all will be flying around with nothing but an cockpit… i have many ships in pvp and if they are gonna get removed by this i want my freaking 8 million EC back! stop degrading evrything in pvp its just so sick! pve is the main problem, not pvp!
and regarding lag with big ships, its the same lag with smaller sv aswell, for me atleast i dont see any frame dropping if an big cv comes into the fight, but i guess i got an monster computer 😉
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### Author:  [@Elfias](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Elfias)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 10:34am UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/23 "2016-08-23T10:34:43Z")
Guys this is about what we can do for now here on HWS. Of course its geme whats badly done. But there are some ways how to help it in this is suggestion for one. Once devs will fix it, sorry but im very sceptic as bike is still not implemented, we can get back.
Its game core problem but smaller ships lags less as you can already see from devs limiting devices by levels they know about it. So its obvious that less devices = less lag.
HWS was on level 4, now we are at level 3 so no change, im still flying same size ship, and made CV a bit bigger 800 to 1800 blocks, still have plenty space to make it bigger.
Maybe level 2? Level 2 will force me to take few devices and blocks away at least from SV. And this is devs offered idea how to increase performance in MP.
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### Author:  [@AlexAKM](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/AlexAKM)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 10:38am UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/24 "2016-08-23T10:38:52Z")
> [@Elfias](#):
>
> HWS was on level 4, now we are at level 3 so no change
I miss something. When we change size-class?
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### Author:  [@Elfias](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Elfias)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 10:50am UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/25 "2016-08-23T10:50:01Z")
After wipe 2.0 to 3.0
Damn i hate that we have to talk about this problem at all, they realy should do some solution for this, just rough balancing, and some performance optimisation. Ppl give them enough of ideas on their forum.
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### Author:  [@AlexAKM](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/AlexAKM)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 10:56am UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/26 "2016-08-23T10:56:28Z")
> [@Elfias](#):
>
> Damn i hate that we have to talk about this problem at all, they realy should do some solution for this, just rough balancing, and some performance optimisation. Ppl give them enough of ideas on their forum.
I think, if they COULD do it, they already done it, but… We still watch on FPS, and drink tea w8 some kind of miracle 🙂
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### Author:  [@Kalsius](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Kalsius)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 10:57am UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/27 "2016-08-23T10:57:41Z")
Call me old fashioned but i dont see PvP being any fun when everyone turns up with a box made of thrusters and 30 guns on one side. One it causes lag and 2 its about the most unimaginative way of playing ever. Thats why i support limits both in terms of the core game and HWS. If everyone just flys cookie cutter Aw3s0m3 D3TH K!77 PvP ships, where is the challenge? It’s like playing EVE and just giving everyone a Dreadnought and not using anything else.
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### Author:  [@RexXxuS](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/RexXxuS)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 11:07am UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/28 "2016-08-23T11:07:53Z")
if you get your 8 millions back we introduce a ship tax 😃
the bigger your ship the more credits you pay per day for it. If you run out of credits you see in HWS Connect: deleted = true 😊
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### Author:  [@Statler](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Statler)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 11:30am UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/29 "2016-08-23T11:30:15Z")
I’ve been posting in global about doing events so much that I feel like I’m beating a dead horse so I stopped.
I use to love playing paintball, but then all the tech came out and it wasn’t the best players that won it was the person who spent the most money on paint.
Please go read my thread on Scheduled events. 2 teams, Fixed BPs and weekly. I think it would be very fun.
[http://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/shall-we-play-a-game/361](http://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/shall-we-play-a-game/361)
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### Author:  [@Kalsius](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Kalsius)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 11:34am UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/30 "2016-08-23T11:34:48Z")
Can you guys configure the server to increase the fuel cost of ships? That is one way of addressing it. Make it a shallow exponential curve. More devices/blocks = ever increasing fuel cost.
I know there is something linked to mass but the number of thrusters+guns ships I see flying around means that isnt working. There has to be some form of diminishing return for number of guns and thrusters on a ship. i.e. bad example
SV
4 Guns = 4 fuel per 1 mins
6 guns = 10 fuel per 1 mins
8 guns = 28 fuel for 1 mins
10 guns = 100 fuel for 1 mins
12 guns = 460 fuel for 1 mins
This forces a rethink of your ship as you can still have 12 guns, YOU ARE NOT STOPPED FROM HAVING MORE GUNS you just have to build appropriately to manage it.
Cue the flames 😈
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### Author:  [@AlexAKM](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/AlexAKM)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 12:17pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/31 "2016-08-23T12:17:29Z")
> [@Kalsius](#):
>
> SV4 Guns = 4 fuel per 1 mins6 guns = 10 fuel per 1 mins8 guns = 28 fuel for 1 mins10 guns = 100 fuel for 1 mins12 guns = 460 fuel for 1 mins
Mb better rise fuel consumptions on ALL devices? Than u kill 2 duck for one move: less weapons, less devices.
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### Author:  [@Elfias](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Elfias)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/32 "2016-08-23T12:25:02Z")
Kalsius there is also problem that dogfight takes too long. I have 14 rails and 7 plasmas. I want to fight in evening and go to sleep but battle takes 4 hours. I mean its not bad idea too but more we will get into making some, well, more complicated system the worse it will be.
The original idea was to restrict size of ships, lets not even start with number of weapons, lets stick to topic. I mean we all play while we know there are these lag problems. So we can take some. Point was to realy cut down these monstrosities which stops game from working, i can lag, im lagging since i started, but when game freezes, crashes its too much.
Most of all i like Rexx idea of ship taxes 😃 Can i be a tax collector for this?
Maybe we can seach/create for some level2 SVs/CVs to see whats possible to build in this dimensions. I realy want to keep it simpliest as possible for players and admins. If some help wont come from devs everyone will stop play Starforge anyway…err Empyrion i mean
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### Author:  [@Elfias](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Elfias)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 12:35pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/33 "2016-08-23T12:35:03Z")
Oh anyway Kalsius made good point, what options do you have Rexx to help with this? What things you can set, ok like fuel cost or so. Maybe there is something which can easily help?!
There must be structures stored somehow somewhere, so number of turrets maybe. I mean all you can see in info screen for structure could be targeted somewhere somehow.
Damn devs should meke this all simply able to set in file let servers do balance as they want.
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### Author:  [@Kalsius](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Kalsius)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/34 "2016-08-23T12:51:13Z")
I get where you are coming from but there needs to be a balance on guns. There must be an incentive to scale the ship to guns and devices. Like I said, a ship made of guns, thrusters and some front armor isn’t realistic or balanced. The game needs to have a reason for building a ship and not just the bare minimum to fly a bunch of guns around. This means a link between guns and thrusters and other devices or blocks
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### Author:  [@WhizZLe](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/WhizZLe)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/35 "2016-08-23T14:05:38Z")
Hmm… Higher fuel cost = I could sell more fuel = Profit. I have to agree with Kalsius!
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### Author:  [@RexXxuS](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/RexXxuS)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/36 "2016-08-23T14:37:58Z")
A very good idea like many. But that is all we have:
playfield,id,name,type,faction,blocks,devices,pos,rot,core,powered,docked,touched\_time,touched\_name,touched\_id,saved\_time,add\_info
So we can’t go for turrets/guns. Only my crazy idea about taxes. But actually there is too many credits around. So why not x)
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### Author:  [@Thranir](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Thranir)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/37 "2016-08-23T14:41:23Z")
Rexxus if you gonna make taxes, you damn sure better give back my EC…
i have no credits at all and armada of ships.
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### Author:  [@Elfias](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Elfias)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/38 "2016-08-23T15:08:29Z")
Yes Kalsius i agree with that actualy i would like to see some device like targeting computer which you need to place gun and make it work and it is huge and takes a lot of power or something liek that.
Ok so block/devices ration also wont solve anything, unles its 1:1 and limited on devices, i mean this can be limiting armor but still you can just keep adding thrusters to add more armor.
but for now we are f up from what i see in Rexx post. Not much ways how to limit stuff with this.
Am i only one who sees Thranirs future with a drill on Gold planet? 😃
Taxes will be a problem for starting players though, but i like to speak about this as its very funny idea for some reasons 😃
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### Author:  [@owny](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/owny)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/39 "2016-08-23T15:25:02Z")
infinite fuel, o2, ammunition = less tanks = less device
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### Author:  [@AlexAKM](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/AlexAKM)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2016, 4:36pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/lets-try-and-make-pvp-more-fun-again-limits-for-pvp-space/583/40 "2016-08-23T16:36:51Z")
> [@RexXxuS](#):
>
> So we can’t go for turrets/guns. Only my crazy idea about taxes. But actually there is too many credits around. So why not x)
I had only 5k credits, bc I hadnt CV for visiting PvP systems, where credits “farms”… :"(
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