Make it fun again ! SV battle

Can it be possible to have a planet with 50 device limit for CV.

The idea is to have a place for SV battles.

If anyone has better idea please chime in, i really miss those epic SV battles.

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ooh… cam a planet owner configure this in YAML?

Ah man this is a sensitive subject for me lol… It was ultimately the reason why I actually left playing the game competitively.

You see starting in 2.0 SV were always the go to for pvp combat. Bases and CV could be easily exploitable to beat but SV where tough guys that could be deadly in the right hands…

Build quality and technical skill were a must, you were in control of every shot. Yea it was hard, it was sometimes you spend 1000 rounds to land maybe 25 and battles did go on…yes if two veteran players met it could be upto 30-45 mins for an SV battle…so why do I miss them so much.

It’s easy, they were fun. You didn’t need the worlds resources to make one, you could jump in creative and an hour or so later have a beauty ready to go… Your skill Ultimently could sway to battle and as a whole lag was not an as much an issue.

So have an SV fight then you might say… Well back then the choice was SV or lose…now for battle you’d be nuts to have an SV when CV Manual weapons tear you apart in less than a min on planets and in space… Well… Bye bye.

The biggest issue with he the game currently for me is pvp balance… They had a stab at it but like a lot of things eleon brush past the real depth behind these things.

I mean how we have empty pvp planets because bases can be takes out by a CV in mins… We have SV that wouldn’t last 2 seconds in battle against CV which you’d expect to a degree (the movies) but where it totally worng is that the CV owns all and everything… The land… The stars… The rest are well, pointless in pvp…

So are CV no fun… Na they are but for me in 4.0 I couldnt handle the resources, the admin time etc for battles that in reality took very little skill at all and was down to how well you hid the core. Yea they are coming up with some cool ideas to help targeting etc but for me I think a time and a place, the different battle types still shouldn’t be overlooked in a game like this. It’s not just about CV.

This is just my opinion everyone is different but I would love a set up where…

CV is the master of space (only few auto weapons activated on planet)

SV is the master of planet battles quick fire rates and quick speed

BA can defend themselves for a long time against SV due to damage output of an SV and the very high block hp of bases and base turrets but SV are fast so can dodge bullets if your attacking in groups… they can take down bases in groups after persistent attempts.

My solution to balance, up SV block health a lot. 500-1000 Disallow CV weapons on planets. Disallow some SV weapons in space and base weapons are not stupidly effective against SV… They would take one down easy but 3-4 it should be vulnerable. Space bases are separate and have higher damage and turret speed etc.

Man I’m ranting here… I miss the fun, less time consuming and skillful battles.

What do you guys think? I haven’t played in 5.0 at all so maybe things are different these days… Maybe stuff is different but players prefer it that way?

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I don’t have a heck of a lot of PVP experience… but I love everything you said. To me as a newish player to Multiplayer, the SV is relegated to a transport vehicle and a mole to dig out bases…as you said, there’s no place for them in the current game for real pvp…

I think it would be great if you could configure even a singe planet to have restrictions such as no CV’s allowed at all - make space PVE ( so no yanking while Partaking in SV fun), park the CV and bring in your SV Into a PVP planet action.

Yes much of what you noted requires game changes - but even something like that would open up massive opportunities for the SV again, even if it’s just for some pvp action, no huge loot scores. From what I’ve seen, people hunger for action but can’t deal with the lag from big CV battles - imagine the possibilities, even if only event driven.

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I think a lot of PVP issues can be traced to turrets. Not only do they apparently cause the most performance issues but auto aiming turrets just aren’t fun. They aren’t fun in Ark or Rust either. SVs battles are good because it was manual aim and heavy maneuvers. Turrets are also impossible to balance because X amount usually is too few to be effective but Y amount is brokenly strong. As long as turrets dominate PVP it will be relatively unskilled.

Another reason SVs are great is because they didn’t require massive time investments. A max limit PVP CV on the server now is around 200k iron but someone also has to build the 20,000 block behemoth. Just filling a PVP CV with the correct supplies can take hours; ammo, back up parts, extra combat steel, oxygen, energy, etc it is a big task. Repairing or scrapping a heavily damaged CV is a nightmare. Combat in CVs is even more heavily geared towards quanity and numbers too since turret based play removes skill. It is much harder to beat the odds. While effective CVs just aren’t fun. The ratios are all out of wack and mostly geared towards drudgery and grinding.

Back in 3.x I played on other servers and everyone I played with designed and flew their own SVs. Many people built a couple different SVs even. In 5.x only one person in my large group builds PVP CVs now. They are just so much work and god forbid Eleon releases a patch totally making your CV ineffective.

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Achilles
My solution to balance, up SV block health a lot. 500-1000 Disallow CV weapons on planets. Disallow some SV weapons in space and base weapons are not stupidly effective against SV… They would take one down easy but 3-4 it should be vulnerable. Space bases are separate and have higher damage and turret speed etc.

I think it is a great idea but…
By just adding more hit points to SV blocks we will still have game unbalanced .
Lets think why players are making bigger and stronger CV ships in the first place and SV’s are rarely used in a battle ?
How to make game more balanced ,not only for big factions but also for single players that can’t afford to build even 10 000 blocks CV ?
CV growing larger and require more and more resources to match powerful large factions destroyers , living new players far behind .
Why we see so many new players living server just after few days ?
For example after single incident at origin pvp planet that ruined few days of hard work on starter planet gathering resources and preparing 1st CV ever made been just exterminated in seconds by same origin base just after arrival .
Also deployment base in pvp space is pointless , those can survive only few seconds of CV fire .

There is one simple answer to it .
Weapons in game are simple to powerful .
By reducing weapons damage and making SV stronger fights in space and on the planet’s surface will last longer and use of SV’s will finally make sense.

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You are totally correct my suggestions would not balance… I guess I don’t expect Eleon to commit time to balancing pvp any time soon.

There are other aspects the game that require attention and I think their efforts are directing a different various places but pvp and combat is not a main one currently.

I suggested those thinking a ‘quick fix’ but that never really works lol

The realisation needs to be that these changes are not just about pvp… They are totally relavent to single player. I can’t imagine people who multiplay go back to single player but I did a few weeks ago to test and what I found is It took me not long to have t3 autominers, build a decent CV and destroy every poi…lets be honest the future of this game is not single player…well imo

If pvp was balanced how many people would return to the game…like mentioned I believe it is what kills multiplayer for new guys… You spend hours and hours stocking a CV making items, mining creating SV and bases in preparation to then venture into the universe to lose it all in 1 min. I’m down for risk but risk V reward is way off currently…

So much potential in this game and I’m optimistic, I feel the players frustrations tho as at heart I’m one of them…

Anyway, I’ll get back to HWS duties and keep my moans and groans aside and be patient :sweat_smile:

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I’ve been trying to make this point on the official forums without much luck. Eleon is making the job hard due to how weak they make Alien bases and CVs (hull blocks! no combat steel!). If single player ever gets Aliens into PVP quality CVs or even just upgrades the Alien bases to combat steel and matched strength turrets it will change a lot. Most just don’t understand until they actually experience it and they haven’t yet. The current trader CV dies to one full turret salvo (and it is easy to hit moving 20 km/s).

I do believe single player could have a strong future but it depends on how far Eleon is willing to take the game. If anyone has played the X series you know how cool having AI factions fighting each other can be. I’m just not sure they can pull it off since AI seems to be the hardest thing for game developers. Empyrion AI is OK but still suffers from stupid things like getting stuck in easily avoided areas.

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Well said.

I’ve learned a great deal from this server about building PvP CVs. The 5.1 white-space discussion was incredibly helpful as were the lag-shot combat videos. Following those, I totally tore down and started re-building my combat CV in creative mode. Then, “Ring Thing” was posted on the workshop. Just seeing it and then using “Godmode” yielded huge insight. Thanks for that workshop post, btw!

Overall, though, the biggest insight I’ve gotten is, “don’t bother.” I’ve got the resources to build one or two. I’m certain, though, that my first builds would fail against whatever is being flown now. It’s not even the thought of losing the resources that defeats me, it’s the thought of repairing something that big if it survives. Even scrapping it would be daunting- kind of sad really.

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there are some simple things to make pvp more fun.

Bases…

1: On planet give bases 50% extra range and some more damage output.
2: In space give them 100% extra range.
3: Make some kind of shield for space bases that drains fuel…
4: No CV weapons on planets at all. Only SV.

just some quick thoghts…

/Zappe21

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Just make a 5g planet, no one will take their CVs in there, SVs can rule that :wink:

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This is what I have been trying to tell the devs… A Mother ship in more or less every single movie/game only belongs on planets in 1 scenario… It has crashed. The bad thing is where the hell do you keep your CV to make it safe apart from in deep space which is buggy. I would say they should have much like ‘peacekeepers’

So if you want to live on planets you build a cool base with Defences then defend with SV… The orbit it pve but can not have any bases in…Of course not all orbits you still have most orbits that are pvp but reason to fight in space… Asteroid mining via CV would be the quickest form of mining by a long way so it’s always worth the risk and always pvp CV battles in space which is fun. Much like black hole an orbit where CV battle it out… Leave the SV to run the planet… Low lag battles, and yea restrict the max number of bases per player so they can’t lag it out.

Every vehicle should have a universe purpose. The HV Is the king of mining plants… Those drills should cut through resorces like butter…You would be silly not to have a HV. The SV should be the all time fighter, quick and agile but pack a punch in groups and is completely manual shooting so the players skill is paramount. The CV is the Queen of space, no one can take here on apart from space bases and other CV… But she can take a beating… CV fights should last a while… Shields, Defences… Players should want to build a CV because they know the time invested won’t be wasted… And you know what, the repair isn’t a block that just fixes blocks still there… If you have the resources to put into a repair bay it will fix that CV as if it is freshly spawned… And Finally bases, you want to live in pvp we that’s possible…you will only lose bases from very long SV attacks or if a group attack is launched. SV v SV the weapons are strong but SV v base it would take a lot of tactics… Possible but tactics and persistent sniping etc that could take up to an hour.

To me I see a picture that is logical and what the players would dream of… A true balanced and fun pvp where you can risk a lot… CV battles… Or a little… SV battles… Let the player choose what type of pvp they want but most importantly make it fun and not a huge ball ache every time you lose… Ie you win but your CV might as well be scrapped.

Man what I’d give to have 30 mins to stand in front of the Eleon team and try inspire what potential this game has… The players don’t want new plant textures and gimmicks that make it look shiny, they want depth and good old multilayer fun

P.s I can help myself… I feel strongly about the pvp potential in this game haha

Effects SV also the gravity and it wouldn’t stop some players making thruster machine with manual weapons that can cut though SV :cry:

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I completly agree with you Achilles, and we have tried since the last 8 months to make them understand that, but i think it’s a waste of time now with those devs, do we have to keep telling them all the time what’s is really obvious for everyone ?!? :smiley:

If they were competent they won’t even need us to tell them all the simple changes / features / bugs needed to be fixed or added, seriously…Sorry, I’m fed up like Elfias was some months ago :smiley:

It’s so sad to see we have some great admins here on this server and so bad devs team :confused: i just hope one day, a better game will come out to match the quality of the admins / server, so everyone will be happy :smiley:

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love it

Make it so Archilles :wink:

I’d rather have no bases on planet just SV and HV

edit…

just SV is even better

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wait for it guys… wait for it … :wink:
:popcorn:

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i think we enjoy the change log saying they did those changes to make things pretty more than we actually enjoy the pretty things – at least while there all this extra unmoulded clay waiting to take shape.

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As a new player whose had to stop , I’m onboard here.

I don’t have time to build and engineer some 20k block ridiculous thing. I have time to build a cool 2000 block thing. Which is always destroyed in pvp (thankfully–the worse alternative is surviving in order to limp away somewhere and strip down and re-blueprint the ship.)

It’s drudge work sometimes. And it shouldn’t have to be with some simple changes:

-Real repair station that repairs a ship back to an auto-saved recent blueprint. (using basic resources or resources from blueprint factory)

-Tweaking existing mechanisms to make smaller CVs have some useful advantage

There would be way more fun action and way less housework.

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… and just to underscore the “Don’t bother” CV meta… new turret targeting behavior in 5.3. It’s not that I disagree with the change, it’s just not worth the time to design large ships for PvP. I’m kinda glad I’ve just been selling Sath and Iron rather than designing & building CVs. This is beginning to remind me of Robocraft and the way they handled megabots.

It was the nail in the coffin for me. I posted my thoughts on it on the patch notes thread on the official forum.

New meta. No auto cv turrets allowed. No CV Weapons allowed. Hover vessels. Hover vessels in space. CV’s can only be used to bat them around, and warp them to the fight.