[POLL] What do you think about... performance and moles

Those people can leave do their share of digging for a few months get bored of digging and come back to laglessness :stuck_out_tongue: so its only delaying the inevitable.

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I am 2500 hours in, and still not “bored of digging”… The ability to affect your environment is what keeps me in this game, and engaged. Plus, Laglessness is a bold claim. Remember that this lag shot phenomenon is most of the time experienced in space, where there is no digging already. Yes, removing the load from the server in general will help to an extent, but lets not kid ourselves and believe that it is a magic bullet that will fix stuttering, crashing, disconnects, and lagshots. If you really think that is the case, just look at some examples of combat in the Nova server, where I can almost guarantee you that no one has ran in an made rabbit warrens on the planets, as most of the action there has been space cv combat testing. But surprise: all the issues still occur.

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This is an excellent point. I am open to anything that solves these issues, but do not want to give up game mechanics for “hope” - I would want the issues above solved before I compromise on 3D gameplay.

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Are we sure about that? All the testing we’ve seen seems to indicate improvements. And it’s not exactly apples to apples but interesting context.

This is all assumption city. If the game changes then it does and people will either like it or don’t. But the game will not die and go empty for removing that select of the game. We will lose players. But we already lose players for the other things that are wrong. We also gain tons daily.

We will survive either way.

I am talking about the nova tests, with the new turret targetting, etc., not the experimental server. The experimental branch official server is in a completely new version, so we cannot be sure that any better performance is due to digging, or any changes made in 6.0
The only test would be to have a copy of the hws universe as is, with a full surface wipe n every planet. Then have everyone play on that for a day, and get in as many fights as possible. If you see then that the same ships, the same load, and the same version is somehow magically lagfree, then we can say it was only because of the digging.
And I understand what you are saying hop, but remember that one of the beautiful aspects of an open alpha or pre-release game that is developed by a receptive dev team is that they can build a game that better suits their players, and react to feedback from them. If everyone is on board, the game may change to remove digging from the game. But remember that our perspective is not the same as others who play this game. That much is wildly evident by the poll eleon did a while back that showed far more interest in pve than pvp. We are an outlier, albeit a large and vocal population. To assume that the game should change and remove features in order to possibly remedy a situation that players who do not participate in large scale combat would never even SEE is a little narrow minded. Again, you are right, if it changes, provided it still has enough to offer to customers, the customer base may change, but still remain. But it is very possible to make a change that kills off the existing community of a game. So a wise development team will approach huge changes with atleast a little caution

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I love the building under ground, it’s a very unique feature of this game and very works very good for immersion

now there is talk about better performance and allowing more players on the server. Sorry but current server performance is too far of to be talking about this. On a almost empty server I had my first cv fight yesterday, in space. it was a lag fest. and that was just 4 or 5 cv’s in one playfield. and it was barely playable, again at 10 fps ish.
So enforcing this rule will make the need for beefier ships even bigger than it already is. HV’s and SV’s with the block count of a titan class CV… surely that will help performance :wink:

I miss the option: class sizes down for all vehicles, keep 3d terrain (with perhaps less deep/thick surfaces?) and see how that goes.
(if the amount of turrets is the problem, and not the shear block size, than curb those)

@mcprouty, what that poll showed: 70 people that want to PVE over PVP… i dont think we can see that as a representative poll for all (potential) players out there.

When you have to spend about 8 hours digging to bedrock to place your base on a pvp planet this all of a sudden looks very welcoming. (2565 hours here and super tired of it)

I am aware. It is not a significant enough sample size. But neither is the 58 people who voted here. That is my point: That polls cannot effectively guide the direction of a population unless they have a statistically significant sample size. Sampling in just our server population yields the results here, obviously skewed towards pvp, but not definitive because of the sample size. Sampling in the Eleon official forum yielded a population that got that particular results, but again, not definitive. Statistically significant in this instance would be in the multiple hundreds, atleast. All I am saying is be open to gameplay desires and styles that differ from your own.

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Kogami you know you can page down before placing right??? I have had numerous bases on pvp planets, never once been forced to dig down to bedrock first. Even if you are building from scratch, not blueprint, you can core and recore in new location once you have a better spot for it.
Plus, we all know that pvp bases without offline protection right now are defenseless anyways unless you force players to be online literally 24/7, and call teammates online if anything happens. Pushing bases completely to the surface doesnt fix this, it makes it so much worse, atleast you could spend some time and protect some bits of your base underground to make it last just a little bit longer against an offline raid. Putting all of the base above ground does remove the “need” to dig, yes, but in reality, it is just removing the option to dig. Any base you could have after this change is in place could easily by made right now, with no digging necessary. Now if you complaint is that people blast in and hit the core without dealing with turrets, thats a whole other issue, and is more relevant to the fact that it is possible. If you made it so that blasting was not possible, but rather only digging at a reduced rate, atleast on pvp, or even that only t2 drills could drill inside of the griefing range, this whole situation changes, and moles are more easily countered with sentry guns. No need to hide an entire arsenal underground, when the only thing that can get in there is a sapper on foot.

This would have to be a enabled option if it where in single player aswell then it would be a massive problem as it would cuase a lot of people to leave.

Yea I know you can page down, but the problem was they stoped turrets from firing if they where burried so i had to 100% make sure there was no terrain before placing, as its super hard to remove terrain after you have built there.

I dont know what you mean by this… In my experience it is far easier to have the framework of your base down, then just dig out the bits that need to be cleared. I cant imagine that completely vacating the area of all dirt first was the better option…

As I said before i didn’t want my turrets not firing because there is a piece of floating terrain just under the turret where the t2 drill cant reach. I couldn’t test if it still fired either since I was playing solo at the time, neither did i wan’t to be posted for burried turrets either that shot through terrain so there is that, but this is so far off topic lets end it here…

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Indeed. Massive rapid change could be like carpet bombing the current population. Agree. And I’m sure you’ve also seen this in action as games we played got completely changed out from under the players (looking at you robowars); and yet they are still a popular game (that I no longer play).

But you are right. We are an outlier as a specific community by which only a few others hold a remote candle which I would suspect (assume) they have similar tastes in the polling as we do as a community.

At the end of the day, the alpha will be used to remove features that overall reduce the playability of the game, and add some that hopefully improve it. This could unfortunately mean that our voice loses out and we become a game that’s no longer fun for us.

I’m holding out hope tho. I’ve been happy with what I’ve seen so far from the dev team, and Rex and gang have an ear, so it’s looking better than some other games!

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I voted for option 1 but I have some hesitation with any of these options.

As you stated the radar, SV range and lack of viable offline protection make it impossible to defend an above ground base currently. So it seems like PvP planets will be a waste of time as far as building bases goes.

A couple questions:
If you make all the resources meteorites how do you get stone/rock dust?

How will lag be affected if instead of larger planet files now everyone parks cvs far out in space?

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Hmm… this seems an interesting option. In MP we want top performance. Also most bases won’t last a lot, so any complex tunneling you might want to do will be easily modified/destroyed.
On the other hand, single players do take the time to make a base look good, even in a cave/tunnels, etc. and they won’t ragequit the game because they suffer limitations due to pvp aspect.
Still, I have not voted…

Howabout we just give everyone a class 1 indestructable base with Option 3… Problem solved… Everyone can safely stash their stuff and never have to leave if they dont want to.

if only there was a planet or playfield planned that had small spaces users could kind of live in with a couple cargo boxes and a constructor or two that cant die… We could maybe call it, Auxilio… Or the Scrapyard… or maybe even just stick with something plain like “HWS Penthouses”.

Ok, i’ll just stop with all the craziness. :wink:

One of the things I really enjoy about Empyrion is the malleable terrain and the ability to dig, flatten, and raise terrain as required to suit whatever I am building. Heck, I even enjoyed it when all we had was the T1 drill. Sure PvP is fun and it would be great to have better performance during PvP battles, but there are lots of other games I can play that have great PvP performance. There aren’t too many that let me dig out a mountain to build a base and then allow me to plan and build counter-mole defences. I think the malleable terrain is a key part of the “survival” experience, as is defending your base against others who are after your hard-earned resources. Let’s not destroy what makes Empyrion unique to turn it into just another PvP game with fixed assets and non-destructible terrain. Heck, if we really want performance why let players design and build their own ships? Roll out a fixed set of stock ships and let everyone use them. Boom, no more performance hogging mega-triangle light-loaded monsters. Got to be a great performance boost there, but is that the game we want to play?

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@zed283 I can’t like this enough. Way better worded than my normal crazy. I loved watching that newb last night as we helped him get set up with a base in that hole on C7. I actually had tears in my eye’s as he came flying down at me barely surviving the drop.

I mean we literally blew two hours in game DIGGING and PLAYING in virtual dirt! I had a blast.

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I am not a huge PvP fan but understand the obsession with it for some. My views on PvP in Empyrion are not based on “learn2build” or “learn2PvP” or “learn2play” or “madcausebad.” My views are based on “havealife” and “2old2careforpissingcontests” and “donotcaretoplayexploits.” The idea of 15 hour battles and 200,000K builds are not appealing to me. The absolute TOXIC global chat that is an outcome of these battles is not appealing to anyone. The constant DCs and lost frames are not fun for anyone. So I have two votes for two different situations.

  1. I would love to see a designated PvP area for these folks with no resources whatsoever. A barren planet they can tunnel out and leave hundreds of wrecked ships laying all over the place but still have a playable/connectable playfield after they do so. A place for all day battles to be the norm. My vote is for whichever makes this scenario possible.

  2. I would love to see a playfield with a triangle limit(if possible to track it) on all builds allowed into it. A limit low enough to allow folks who want to take a non triangle/6-way builds into battle for FUN and nothing else. A “workshop build” planet for lack of a better word. No bases allowed and rich in resources. My vote is for whichever makes this scenario possible.

I don’t know if both scenarios are possible on the HWS server and still allow a performance boost in the end. I am fine with whatever Rex needs to do to make it work for him as he pays for all of it in the end. If the final outcome doesn’t suit my gameplay then, no worries, I move on and let the remaining folks have their fun. My compliments to Rex and his crew…amazing effort and its appreciated.

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