Rule #6

I can still make a HUGE base using cement+wood+trussing. I can use 5k of each type and then just paint them and my base will probably literally reach the orbit and back a few times. Also this counting of the ingots every time to make it fit even though the ship is relatively small. Just try making a tiny CV just for warping using combat armor. Even though you may have like 200 blocks your ingot count is very high and will very easily surpass the 5k even though it drains less performance than a wooden base with 120 active turrets (if it doesn’t bug)… And that is assuming that wood/cement/soil/etc. counts as ‘ingots’, if not then there is no limit.

Can it at least be simplified to: “no more than 1000 blocks regardless of ingot count and no more than 50 turrets”? Actually I don’t know if blockcount really matters for BA’s regarding performance but it probably does for CV’s.

Hey Tiny,

I see this rule makes most people headache. As soon as I have more time I will try to make a good performance test and with that a limit of CVs in the best way possible.
Thanks for the feedback!

RexXxuS

Thanks.

I spend 5 hours yesterday to grind down my ship and move stuff over. Only to find out that a lot of people break rule #6. A LOT of people forget the “HQ” in the name and I see ships many times my size on a daily basis in full combat armor. My ship is currently 4.8k ingots so that can not be within rule #6. Is rule #6 even enforced or is it more like “meh, just don’t go to nuts on shipsize”?
Also private ships were maybe (or vaguely) not included in the rule.

Maybe better:

[quote]
Rule #6

On all PVE planets (Mars, Nova, Z, Elemental Market, etc.) you are only allowed 1 CV and 1 BA per faction for each PVE-planet, including private ships and this also applies to players that are currently not in a faction, with the following restrictions:

  • These BA’s must have “HQ” in their name. This does not apply to CV’s.
  • These CV’s are limited to 1000 blocks (of any type) and these BA’s have no blockcount limit because it doesn’t cause performance problems. Press P while standing on a block of your CV/BA and press “statistics” to see the block count.
  • These CV’s are limited to 10 active turrets and 30 active lights. You may have infinite inactive turrets/lights.
  • These BA’s are limited to 5 turrets.
  • You may have a second CV enter a PVE-planet for your faction for no more than 30 minutes (for unloading goods and for picking up people) and this ship must have “Shuttle” in the name.
  • Use common sense! Finding obvious ways around the rules that will drain network/FPS for other players will still get your stuff deleted w/o warning.
  • No bases (BA) allowed on Elemental Marketplace. This overrules the above.
  • Any structures breaking rule #6 will be deleted with or without warning.

There are no limits to structures in PVP zones.

Tip: Turn off thrusters&turrets when you don’t need them to safe lots of power and also help your fellow players by reducing FPS/network drain.
Tip: Mars is wiped twice per week. Mars orbit is NOT wiped. You can safely park in Mars orbit with offline protection enabled. Rule #5 prevents people from killing you when you leave Mars for a certain distance. All other PVE planets are NOT wiped. Or you can warp straight to the Elemental Marketplace from Mars Orbit where you will be safe during the wipe.[/quote]

Also I’m a bit sad I can’t join any faction just because I want to build my own base on Mars/Nova due the the ‘1 limitation’. So I’m factionless and just work together instead.

Just wanted to make a post about this nice i can put it here.

Exactly as Tiny said. Block size should be the limit. Relatively small CV from combat steel have same ingot price as potato steel huge CV.

When it comes to 1 CV per PvE planet there is one anoying problem. Faction have 1 CV which is THE CV, main one. But when you dont need/want to take this CV to mining mission or recon mission you need to spawn something like jump ring. Its realy small and not so much causing problems.
Usuall method to avoid rules and make it legal is to change core alegiance to privat so its private CV not Faction and according to rules its ok. One needs a lawyer :slight_smile:
But to not waste more time without fun its quite necessary to have option to spawn some opther cheap CV which can be destroyed, so there is obviously need to make some more specific but simple rule to solve this all.

Another thing is turrets on PvE planets, absolutly useless, 4 turrets are more than enough to shoot all wildlife around no need for 50. Maybe some rule.

I see a big problem in this. Ppl dont read rules and if they do they try to somehow bend them or try to find workaround. ANd here we are again, common sense. Everyone should try to make game as smooth as possible, keep your amazing huge vessels to single or creative. As few lights as possible, turrets only when necessary, if you can use larger thruster instead of 18 normal.

If some of you already tried to take huge CV into combat you maybe saw that its not working, combat is laggy enough already, turrets are stucked not shooting and so on. I know this because as all others i of course build huge ship too. Not working and I asked admin to delete it, was no fun.

[quote=“Elfias”]When it comes to 1 CV per PvE planet there is one anoying problem. Faction have 1 CV which is THE CV, main one. But when you dont need/want to take this CV to mining mission or recon mission you need to spawn something like jump ring. Its realy small and not so much causing problems.
Usuall method to avoid rules and make it legal is to change core alegiance to privat so its private CV not Faction and according to rules its ok. One needs a lawyer :slight_smile:
But to not waste more time without fun its quite necessary to have option to spawn some opther cheap CV which can be destroyed, so there is obviously need to make some more specific but simple rule to solve this all.[/quote]Exactly, private ships currently have technically (admins will probably consider this rulebreaking anyway) no limit whatsoever. And currently we are not allowed to use temporary “shuttles” for mining missions, explorations, taxi’s, etc. That’s why I suggested the “shuttle” to the rule. Also I apparently broke the rule for like a week (I didn’t know I interpreted the rules wrong) but many other people did it too and the admins also do not really seem to care because this is really common. I’m pretty sure I saw some ships a week ago that had 30k+ iron ingots and saw a few today that are also clearly breaking it. I made a new CV at 4.8k iron ingots. But I couldn’t really fit in enough thrusters and it’s just a cube and forget about a landing platform because you won’t have ingots left for that…

The only reason for ~50ish turrets (could probably be 30ish okay) is because they are disabled anyway most of the time (they drain too much power) but are still required for Mars in case you get attacked when leaving/entering Mars between wipes. With 4 turrets your HQ would be a free target. They are only enabled after a wipe to shoot drones/troop transports and to discourage people from attacking you when entering/leaving Mars and not meant for big battles. 21 miniguns + combat armor will keep those solo-pesky-SV’s away while you enter Mars.

Also furniture probably drains the most FPS due to them having WAY more tri’s/verts. But personally I don’t feel that the restrictions should go that deep.

On top of that I found a minor exploit (already reported & confirmed since I received the reward) that lowers the ingot amount&cost on ships for combat armor and most people use it already without knowing it so when the devs fix that, suddently all of your combat armorships can’t enter any kind of PVE planet so we need a change to the rule for this alone.

Perhaps instead of the"shuttle" just allow 2 CV + 1 BA per faction.

And again the amount of people breaking rule #6 is enormous, another ship docked near me in full combat armor and about 30x the size of my ship and my ship is at 4.8k ingots so that’s not possible:

Really so many people break it that I feel kinda bad that I spend 5 hours grinding down my old ship that I spend like a week building on, when everyone else breaks rule #6 literally everywhere I go and sometimes very excessively .

Or try this one:

No more than 5000 iron ingots? Yeah right… More like 500.000 iron ingots. People are breaking it left and right and I feel like an idiot for grinding mine really… Nobody cares about rule #6. Of course most of these people have their turrets activated as well…

I just saw (this morning) 5-6 CV’s from one faction on Nova but all set to private except one. Can we have a confirmation whether this is legit? Because if yes, I can join a faction too then since I can keep my own BA/CV private.

Hey Tiny,

sorry man - this rule just goes insane. Very sad to see how people try sneaky ways to fuck me up only to save all their stuff. They don’t get it that we have this rule to grant a laggfree / stable planet. Nova and Z crashes randomly very often now because of their selfish behavior. I see no other way to give them lessons through pain.

But before I make a better - idiot-save rule for everyone to prevent that - I hope.
I try to make this new rule as soon as I am back from work.

Thank you very much! I just warped to Mars to get some wood, 10 minutes on Mars and already saw a big CV in full combat armor again and another one that is questionable. We shall await your return. Also Nova crashed me about 6x yesterday before i decided to log off. Unplayable. Also my own BA on Nova bugged out yesterday when i placed a turret on it. It disabled collision and rendering of certain blocks for me, allowing me to run with ‘no-clip’ through my base and I don’t know how to fix it.

Or maybe we can get 2 Mars instances and 2 Nova instances to spread the CV’s out.

Hart succeed. And just delete all CVs with more than 5k iron

I agree that some ships should just be deleted w/o warning because those people know clearly what they are doing or even admit it. But many people are simply confused by rule #6 and do not know that they are breaking it. Therefore I would personally prefer a server-wide warning for everyone and then after 24-48h or something delete all CV offenders w/o further warnings.

Also the 5k rule must be changed first. Because if 2.1 for example would fix a certain bug/exploit regarding blueprints (I don’t know), then that would mean literally every ship with combat armor would be breaking the 5k ingot limit.

If any one confused from Rule #6 ask an Admin. if they don´t ask / they didn´t read any rules or not interessed in it.

i would delete all cv´s with more than 5k its my opinion.

I understand. Let me explain my particular case:
I assumed we were not allowed to have more than 5k ingots of any type in the CARGO of the CV. Silver & Skinner assumed the same. I also assumed this was the case because I saw so many huge ships on Mars and admins weren’t deleting those so I assumed I was not breaking any rule and that it was purely a cargo limit. I did not ask an admin because I assumed I understood the rule clearly.

Also often when I ask an admin I get no answer in chat even though at least one admin is present or people tell me “read the website”… They probably think the question is dumb.

My ship is under the 5k limit so it doesn’t matter to me. But it would be sad for all those people who honestly don’t know about it.

However there are also people who clearly break it. Or I ask them politely to leave due to them breaking rule #6 and docking next to me. And instead I get shot at or other semi-offensive-stuff. Those people are a different story. Or large experienced factions docking many CV’s as “private” is also imo worthy of insta-delete.

But right now we just split up (each our own faction) and trade resources/send credits instead so that we can have more CV’s. I bet more people who are alone in their faction are only alone in order to be able to build their own BA/CV on PVE planets. PVP is just too bugged and to imbalanced and there are so many bugs I can’t even tell if people cheat or just bug out. I’m not 100% sure if this is legit though but admin(s) know about it and seem to be okay with it so I assume this is okay. So tired of making a blueprint for a warpship, then when I reach a PVE planet I must grind it down and build a new blueprint for the next time I leave the planet because… rule#6…

I see that rule #6 changed a bit. It still does not disallow multiple CV/BA’s set to private. Does that mean that this is allowed?

CSW Outgoing is also PVE, does that mean large ships are not allowed to transfer to the other server?

Not really changed - Chance was so super friendly to correct my crappy english on a lot of pages!
Thanks again.

But I think I still need to address some issues / questions like private / faction ships etc.

I had only meant to try and clarify the rule as it could have easily been interpreted in many ways. Hopefully there is less confusion involving that for now.

Having some big concerns with this rule Rexx and if I’ve misunderstood it, please ignore the rest of this post. :slight_smile: But I understand for planet Z, only 1 BA and 1 CV per faction, regardless of the number of people in your faction. Correct?

I understand the need to not let factions/people camp in PVE planets but until the developers fix this game, this is really the only way INDIVIDUALS can secure their loot from intruders AND their own faction. Having a private location where you can secure things even from you faction will actually STRENGTHEN the factions because you don’t have to worry about your own faction stealing from you. The Empyrion devs need to add permission settings within a faction so we can have private cargo boxes (or private anything) so that some items are private and others shared. In Ark you can do this. Permissions, ranks whatever…but the game needs a way to secure things beyond just faction, which is still basically public but just fewer people. Until the game is fixed/modified, having a PVE planet where individuals can have a BA to secure their hard earned goods is the only way to overcome the human/trust element.

Having a limit on the BA and CV size is reasonable. Perhaps → 1 BA per person, per faction with a size limit and 1 CV per person, per faction with a size limit, to store your goods. Perhaps the CV’s must remain in space, but then the orbit has to be PVE too.

In a “perfect” faction you could trust everyone, but that’s not realistic. Humans are humans. I have seen faction members steal and it tears factions apart. It’s hard to prove anything and makes it hard to trust anyone fully.
Even in a good faction, if things “go missing” people start blaming others and then the faction gets suspicious and start to accuse others of being thieves or lazy.

Please, Rexx and team, consider this trust element that a PVE planet can help resolve for factions, for now. This will also help with people losing EVERYTHING and just quitting b/c they don’t want to spend all that time trying to rebuild.

[quote=“Jelloburger”]Having some big concerns with this rule Rexx and if I’ve misunderstood it, please ignore the rest of this post. :slight_smile: But I understand for planet Z, only 1 BA and 1 CV per faction, regardless of the number of people in your faction. Correct?

I understand the need to not let factions/people camp in PVE planets but until the developers fix this game, this is really the only way INDIVIDUALS can secure their loot from intruders AND their own faction. Having a private location where you can secure things even from you faction will actually STRENGTHEN the factions because you don’t have to worry about your own faction stealing from you. The Empyrion devs need to add permission settings within a faction so we can have private cargo boxes (or private anything) so that some items are private and others shared. In Ark you can do this. Permissions, ranks whatever…but the game needs a way to secure things beyond just faction, which is still basically public but just fewer people. Until the game is fixed/modified, having a PVE planet where individuals can have a BA to secure their hard earned goods is the only way to overcome the human/trust element.

Having a limit on the BA and CV size is reasonable. Perhaps → 1 BA per person, per faction with a size limit and 1 CV per person, per faction with a size limit, to store your goods. Perhaps the CV’s must remain in space, but then the orbit has to be PVE too.

In a “perfect” faction you could trust everyone, but that’s not realistic. Humans are humans. I have seen faction members steal and it tears factions apart. It’s hard to prove anything and makes it hard to trust anyone fully.
Even in a good faction, if things “go missing” people start blaming others and then the faction gets suspicious and start to accuse others of being thieves or lazy.

Please, Rexx and team, consider this trust element that a PVE planet can help resolve for factions, for now. This will also help with people losing EVERYTHING and just quitting b/c they don’t want to spend all that time trying to rebuild.[/quote]
It’s a hard line to tow there. One one hand you don’t want people to abuse it and have a bunch of private things that they can immediately change to faction in the event of a war which is entirely possible if they allow private things on top of the faction things. You can easily avoid all of this by putting a cv for storage out in the elemental marketplace somewhere and just leave it there for safekeeping. I’ll talk to Rex about a few things that could be clarified and try to re-write it a bit to either fix these issues you’ve mentioned or clear them up some.

[quote=“Chance”]
It’s a hard line to tow there. One one hand you don’t want people to abuse it and have a bunch of private things that they can immediately change to faction in the event of a war which is entirely possible if they allow private things on top of the faction things. You can easily avoid all of this by putting a cv for storage out in the elemental marketplace somewhere and just leave it there for safekeeping. I’ll talk to Rex about a few things that could be clarified and try to re-write it a bit to either fix these issues you’ve mentioned or clear them up some.[/quote]

Putting things in the elemental marketplace is simply WAY too inconvenient when your trying to go from just about anywhere in the universe to the marketplace. And when you really think about it, it’s just another PVE planet with the concept being similar to what I’ve suggested below.

Having to weigh the evils of both of these issues “Private Elements on PVE planets” VS “Not having Private Elements on PVE planets”:

A) Private elements that go to faction -
Problem- > Immediately gives the faction an artificial bump in resources and vehicles.
Reality -> Everyone will know who’s faction has what because those private BA/CV’s must be named after the player and faction (for the case of storing things on Z for example). i.e. A base on Z named “STAJelloburger”, everyone knows Jelloburger is in STA from the name. Make this a naming requirement. Pretty simple and rival groups can do the math on what your faction may or may not have.
Reality #2 -> Just because they go faction, doesn’t mean it will cause a problem on PVE. It’s PVE. Nothing will get damaged.
Reality #3 -> In execution, this is not practical or efficient. Why would they do that? I wouldn’t change my private to faction for the very reason I made it private…I want it private. :wink: The only reason I could possibly imagine why you’d do this is to give others access to your mats/ships in which case they could use the Faction Base that factions are allowed to have on the PVE planet. Otherwise they can let others in, transport mats from base or put on market for other faction members.

B) Having NO private BA/CV and only 1 per faction of each on PVE planets

Problem -> Jerk, Immature, Socially Inept, A-holes will steal, “borrow”, damage, destroy, or the worst of all (and I’ve seen this) BETRAY your faction and when you log in the next day; everything is either gone, destroyed or another factions property.
Reality -> The borrowing/stealing happens sadly more than we like to admit. If the devs would make a deposit/withdrawal log from Faction inventories (cargo,constructors, fridges etc) then we could see who’s helping and who’s sucking our mats. As for the more destructive behaviors I mentioned in the problem above, those are less common however, the threat of it happening is always there. It makes for an uneasy trust situation with any faction.

The 2 options we have for now are to:

  1. have Rexx use his super human influence powers and convince the developers to add more robust credential setting in the game: i.e. these possible options for the future game design:
    Public
    Private
    Faction All
    Faction Private
    Faction Rank - Recruit (access to life support and some doors), Member (access to all but items marked at higher rank), Officer (access to all but items marked at higher rank), Leaders (access to all faction items)

  2. we as a gaming community/HWS server group must find a good workaround together to keep from watching people quit because their mats/ship/bases are at risk or have been stolen/destroyed or just “borrowed” one too many times.
    My humble suggestion is to PVE planet, 1 private ba and 1 cv per person per faction, the ba/cv is of X size and no larger, and they must have your faction and player name in the private tag - “STA-Jelloburger”.

Jelloburger

Yo Jelloburger,

good thoughts you have here… we are kind of limited indeed. Hopefully devs will do something about the whole faction / ally / diplomacy stuff. And yes, I already asked them :wink:

The only problem I see in your suggestion is: the bigger the faction the more unfair it is. Look at SWP (EU). If they would follow your suggestion the whole planet will be crowded already.

We can’t babysit everything but since the accident with MRA/XTE I recommend everyone to have faction rules for yourself. I made faction threads in the forum: use them. I have faction channels in Teamspeak: use them. If people steal or break your rule: kick or tell me -> kick.

RexXxuS

[quote=“RexXxuS”]

The only problem I see in your suggestion is: the bigger the faction the more unfair it is. Look at SWP (EU). If they would follow your suggestion the whole planet will be crowded already.

RexXxuS[/quote]

I don’t think that is a problem being that planets are quite large. The way you resolve that is you set BA limits on size and require faction privates to be near each other, that will stop the sprawl effect. For now NA is much smaller than EU so it’s not an issue. But as NA grows, requiring small BA size and grouping them in “faction clusters” on the planet will resolve that. Imagine this - lets say the NA server grows to 100 players, the PVE planet gets overcrowded even with the BA size limit and forcing faction privates to cluster BA’s together --> you can still put a Private CV in space (which I would prefer actually), you just need to make specific PVE planets orbits PVE as well. Space problem solved.

[quote=“RexXxuS”]
. If people steal or break your rule: kick or tell me -> kick.

RexXxuS[/quote]

That’s easier said than done. If we KNEW who was stealing from us, we would kick them. That’s the problem, you can’t prove anything and nearly impossible to catch them in the act. This is the very thing that makes a weak faction and hard to trust anyone hence the need for PVE private bases.

No offence Rexx, but your solution is based off of trust and that’s hard to use when there’s no way to verify anyone in your faction is trustworthy. Unless you are watching a faction member, standing in front of a cargo box and then notice mats are gone, how can you really prove they stole it? You cannot.