I believe the changes are good for the benefit of pvp n the orgin Lawless… If it goes back to the easy way out I see no reason to even have the orgin in place… I for one cant comment soo early on the subject when things haven’t been fully fixed n in place. Like paxxo said, Plenty of warps still in place n if cebo/walla gates worked it would help as well. Maybe let rexx get it all set up first before we try to change things right away. People are learning new routes n with time adapt. I seen a couple new factions out trying to pvp and cv’s aren’t working atm. The old players still manage to get away. If the new guys are learning n adapting why can’t we all. Again, this is still in the works. PVP goes both ways… Whats the point in being strategic in pvp if players could easily run. With lots still being worked on I don’t see y we need things changed just yet… Lets get it all worked out n see how things go. Then n only then should their be change to better pvp areas… Till then adapt or stay out imo… N for weapon damage/Range as long as fights don’t last hours n cuts down on lag I’m all for it. Which is what rexx has been working on im assuming for the reasons he did these changes.
Well thats what I originally proposed but your still thinking about gates… so I offered an RP/origin system.
r/gatekeeping?
Range has nothing to do with cutting down lag or reducing fight times. Range just makes everyone clump together too close. This isn’t a matter of “adapt” this is a matter of these game mechanics being flawed from the get-go.
Soo u want to increase range to kill bases n stuff with ease? It makes it a challenge to take on poi’s n players bases
Not enough range to kill a base, no sir, just enough range not to be in a laggy clump of other SVs. At 400 meters, you should still be out-ranged by bases. If that is not the case, then we should increase bases to say, 700 meters as well. That way there is enough room for everyone
Thanks for the feedback so far.
Notes from me:
-
I do not favor any faction or origin over others. And while the “new players” argument from veterans come up often it’s simple as that: PvP is player vs players. And if a new player want that risk, well it’s his decision. I have tons of missions, events, daily rewards etc. setup to get new players going fast.
So everyone has the same chance to adapt to anything. And that larger factions have a benefit - we all know this. -
Ranges of Pulse are not touched. Don’t know where this is coming from. See here:
HWS Config / Effectiveness Weapon System (EWS)
BUT Eleon changed the density stuff. Maybe that is why. I will revisit all ranges again but it would be helpful if you could create a table.
| Weapon | Current Range | Playfield | Requested Range |
|---|---|---|---|
| SV Pulse | xxx | yyy | zzz |
…
- As I said, it was requested and I just slightly added these “PvP/PvE” split. If Eleon implements EMP weapons, there will be even more conflicts I guess.
I know you have no “Save game” option in Empyrion and if you lose, you lose everything. But my intention behind an Universe PvP Space game is exactly this:
Adventure, Exploration, risk, reward.
Camping around the SV ONLY Supergate is not a legit word to use and there are other Supergates.
However, once I implemented the Walla, Cebo, etc. Supergates, I might link them together from the hot-PvP Zone.
Once I’m done with all Supergates, I know it will be a quite crazy network of travel systems and good old times come back, where you need a pen and paper to draw these connections - but that is also what I like 
One other big issue of course is, that the Supergates are set to Alien Faction and you have to know the pattern that above the Planet Supergate 1 is located and below Supergate 2. I try to improve it with an Admin dummy base pointer.
But if the Community do a poll after a while, I might add two-way-warps to Cebo / Walla.
Your decision.
If the goal is to reduce lag or reduce the length of fights there’s a simple solution: Increase weapon range (in this case changing the atmospheric density calculations) and increase weapon damage (probably by a factor of about 3x). I’ll submit actual numbers and graphs after the holidays. Fair warning tho, graphs are not at all my strong suit.
Increased damage at farther ranges means being able to shoot down or destroy enemy ships faster which will decrease active devices (specifically thrusters) on a playfield which will increase overall FPS quality and lag. SVs shouldn’t be designed like tanks. They should be designed like fighters. Fast, maneuverable, high damage output, easy to disable or destroy. As an added side effect, this could also make pirate style CV raids a viable tactic in PVP space. A group of 5-6 fighters could attack a CV and potentially disable it (assuming that CV turrets have been fixed). That could be a new and welcome addition to PVP as well. Instead of just running around with 60-80k block CVs and hoping that someone else shows up in an equivalent size ship that can put up a fight.
That being said, HVs are getting left behind and forgotten about again. Right now, HV turrets have less base range than SV weapons, which makes sense gameplay-wise since they auto track and there’s no need to manually aim but at the same time it makes SV vs HV fights quite one sided. To balance HVs vs SVs, I would recommend giving their turrets greater range than SV weapons but decreasing the damage (compared to SV weapons) so it takes a few volleys to shoot down an SV. All of this, is of course working off the increased damage numbers I’ll be posting after the holidays but for now the basic idea is:
-Increase SV weapon damage by a factor of 3x
-Increase HV weapon damage by a factor of 2x
-Increase HV weapon range to be greater than that of SV weapons by approximately 15%
-Increase CV weapon damage by a factor of 2x
-Adjust range calculations in atmosphere so that ships aren’t hugging each other
In conclussion, this would make confrontations even in large scale fights much quicker, would cause veteran players (who have built up entire OCDs full of resources) to expend more resources to keep up an active number of ships and would help to reduce lag and increase FPS in most playfields.
I agree with the change to force pvp if people choose to venture into pvp. Don’t go to pvp if you don’t plan to fight. Not a fan of campers but campers can be beaten down with an organized group. Just my thought on the matter.
This is true, my only issue with supergates is that there is that just sitting on it was not what it was intended for.
The complaint was that once people had their warp drives gone, they’d go use the supergate to escape. Now that the supergates cant be used with an enemy close, that fix works but introduces the tactic of just sitting on the supergate, depriving others of warping while risking nothing.
We talked about the EMP thing and rex did mention it above. That’s why I mentioned a chat command that could disable supergates in current sector. It would actually add strategy to the supergate system in the same style as an emp would to deprive warp.
to be clear, I’ve never had an issue with people camping supergates. It’s never affected me personally. I’m viewing it from an outside perspective as a cheesy tactic and side-effect of fixing the combat supergate use problem
Ok Rexxxus, something’s broken.
Here’s a table of all weapon ranges then:
| Weapon | Current Range | Playfield | Requested Range |
|---|---|---|---|
| SV Pulse | 175 | Golden Globe | HWS 8.7 Ranges |
| SV Rail | 175 | Golden Globe | HWS 8.7 Ranges |
| SV Homing | 140 | Golden Globe | HWS 8.7 Ranges |
| SV Gattlings | 88 | Golden Globe | HWS 8.7 Ranges |
| SV Dumbfire | 120? | Golden Globe | HWS 8.7 Ranges |
| SV Plasma | 175 | Golden Globe | HWS 8.7 Ranges |
If you didn’t change the ranges then why is it sub 200 meters right now?
That is why the range is >200 Meters. If you look at SV ranges in space they’re still the same as they were last season.
Good i am always ok with weapon damage increase.
This season the damage of Sv was reduced and seems like to fight against invincible structures. Fights need to be fastened up by a lot.
If i hit you with manual fire than you need to take huge damage. Requires good skill of dogfighting and good aim to take down your opponents.
Actual situation
Could always leave the majority of aspects to supergates, however instead of just increase the effective range of using the supergates being effective. Add in a couple more with increased ranges would require many more players from a faction to cover the distance to block usage of the supergates, allowing them to camp til boredom delight if they feel up for it. Adding in another supergates would double the lack of fun.
As for the SV ranges I can’t comment on them yet, but I would prefer the closer ranges instead of sniping as a distance. It makes more sense that fixed assets have much greater range than mobile assets when it comes to attacking a base.
Some other changes are too difficult to comprehend though. Such as Zirax snipers taking 15mm to the face for a minute straight and then finally die. NPCs need to be revisited when it comes to taking on some of these POIs.
Honestly that’s what it feels like when I’m firing missiles at someone. I’m expecting a big boom followed by the other pilot scrambling to get his ship to stay in the air. Instead it’s like “Oh, did you just shoot me?”
Making it impossible to leave PvP space except by one single SG, then allowing people to mass camp that SG, then making it so they can’t leave even if they survive running the camper gauntlet, is a horrible, horrible, horrible, frankly idiotic idea.
Saying “people who try PvP know what they’re getting into” is fine. Until they try it, find out what a cesspool it is, and decide never to try it again, or try a different server, or a different game. Then the usual suspects sit around asking why no one wants to try PvP.
Most of what’s wrong with PvP is the game’s fault, not the servers, but that’s no excuse for making things even worse. And turning any foray into PvP areas without superior numbers, ships, and experience into a suicide run by removing even the theoretical possibility of escape when jumped by 3 or 4 enemies is only making it worse. All you’re doing is insuring that no one wants to try it.
What you’ve done is listen to complaints by the very people who make it so no new players want to try the PvP cesspool, and made changes that make it even harder for new players to survive, so even fewer people want to try PvP. And then the people who’ve demanded these changes sit on the server every night and whine endlessly on global chat about no one wanting to come to PvP space.
Make it possible for players at a disadvantage to escape PvP space alive, and you give them a lot more incentive to try. Make i impossible for them to get out alive, and you drive them away. It’s that simple. If you really feel you must have your Homeworld deathtrap, at least make it so a ship that’s outnumbered by enemies can SG warp out.
Fun fact: on Eu nobody is camping the supergate
Fun fact 2: I was in na and nobody was camping there too.
Fun fact 3: need to have a lot of time to waste to camp a stargate since nothing will happen for hours or days
Fun fact 4: supergate area is big enoungh to get in and get out without even being spotted
I for one love the new system. Last season it felt like there was no reason to fight, anyone could escape 100% of the time, no risk. Now when I head over to Homeworld Space I check the player list because I might get jumped at the gate. I like that, makes the game exciting. It makes PVP mean something every time.
In terms of camping the gate? Well, there are 2 gates you can use, one of which has an anti-camp defense for CVs and Bases, the other just Anti Base. On top of this you can warp to Black Hole or Titan. So there are still a lot of defensive options to get away. That could mean that you warp to Titan and make/hide in a base, it could be stealthing your ship because PVP is too hot to be in. It could mean you sneak into the far side of the Supergate Zone and still gate out.
I do agree that a Titan gate to Cebo/Walla would be a positive thing (One more escape route, makes a decent travel path) and that weapon damage could be scaled up for faster battles. This season had a rocky start with Eleon releasing before they were ready, but it is shaping up to be my favorite season if the pvp player base ramps up over the next month like it usually does.
Cardboard_Jack: Of course you do. Have fun waiting for all those new players who are never going to show up because you’ve helped make PvP a cesspool with less than zero motivation for any new players to try it.
And Homeworld is still a dead end. One warp out that leads to another dead end. Not too hard for the opponent to guess where you’ve gone. It means once you’re engaged there’s absolutely no way out. That’s nice if you went there intending to duel and find a single opponent (and they don’t bring friends to finish you off if you beat the first), but it sucks donkey balls if you get jumped by 3 or 4 or if you went there to, say, mine the gold that was removed from everywhere else. Why would anyone want to risk it? It negates the whole point of putting scarce resources only in PvP if you make mining them close to suicidal.
I have already had some great PVP with a few new factions, helped them get home and gave them some creds for repairs. Rezzy is a great example, and he keeps coming back for more fights, each time with a better ship. Seen a return of a lot of the new pvp factions from last season too. I have high hopes for the season
To be fair to Rexxxus & co., almost all of what makes PvP close to unplayable is Eleon’s fault, most of the rest is player behavior, and most of the HWS mods seem like a big step in the right direction. But if they’re trying to entice PvErs to try PvP, which is the only reason it makes any sense to remove all the gold from PvE orbits, making it close to impossible to escape back to PvE space if they’re caught at a disadvantage (which they inevitably will be) is the wrong way to go about it.