Some problems we may face after 3.0 wipe

Let me just stress that [size=150]I am not complaining about anything[/size], its just that I have thought of a few things the server may struggle with after wipe.

  1. If each player can only bring a max of 250k credits in their bank over, this means large factions will start after wipe with more money, simply because they either have extra accounts (which has almost been confirmed is the case for some people) or because they have more people. This is not really fair. I for one, would support either everyone brings all their money over, or it all gets wiped. Anything else would be unfair, and bias towards larger factions.

  2. I’m excited we’re having PVE space sections instead of planets, however this presents its own problem. As we’re all familiar with the glitch that happened when the Elemental Marketplace had too many cores in in (too many ships). If we have PVE orbits, this may be the case. I made a post here http://empyrion-homeworld.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=287&p=1530&hilit=autism#p1530 explaining how (in my opinion) would be the best way to handle the new universe.

With that said, we will absolutely need a limit on cores in the PVE playfield, or it’ll take ages to load in when we warp there, and could cause instability.

  1. The Orbital Cargo Drone allowing people to take items over is a brilliant idea, however we need to ensure its working, as I’ve read that some people have lost items. It needs to be 100% working before the wipe.

[size=150]and so I’m not just bitching, I’ve actually had a constructive idea.[/size]

This is an idea that will allow “safe” storage, in a sense, and allow people to recruit without fear of theft.
The idea is: Why don’t we allow factions to have 2 bases, and then have the new base be a tiny room, just filled with cargo containers? That base is then set to private by faction leader.

This way, you can recruit people, and at worst, they destroy your base, but at least no precious materials would get stolen as you have your own “vault” in a sense. Just an idea.

  1. well you can see it differently. On the one site: sure, they have an advantage over new player but well… new player has nothing anyways. It sounds all the time for me that we should give new players 250k credits to be “fair”? :wink: Imagine you have played 2 months on the server and everything will be wiped. We think 250k is not too powerful but not too disrespectful to their playtime also.

  2. I think everyone who have played more than 50 hours Multiplayer in Empyrion should know that PvE is not ready in that game at all. And that is a problem all the time. There is still no REAL solution for the cernel problem. Always fixing symptoms like add more and more and make limits here and there… Anyways I think we go with 3 pve orbits and 3 pve orbits + planets (in terms of the Peacekeepers). Of course we will have restrictions for each of them again.

  3. Lost items is new to me? But yes, that will be 100% ready then.

Regarding your idea:
ask the faction MAD. They are specialist in that thing :slight_smile:

Fair play mate. Having said that, maybe giving new players 1k credits to start so they can get off the starter planet quicker with access to the market is something to think about.

Bit of a language barrier here, but I think I understand what you mean. As long as I don’t get that same bug with the elemental marketplace where I lose all my stuff again, I’m happy :smiley:

Alright cool, maybe it would be worth it to have a period of a week or so before the wipe, so we can properly have our stuff transferred. Maybe send you a list as well, as we put stuff into it, so if anything gets lost we can get it back.

Just really nervous about losing stuff, innit.

[quote=“RexXxuS”]Regarding your idea:
ask the faction MAD. They are specialist in that thing :slight_smile:[/quote]

u wot m8?

Just asked a guy from MAD what the idea is.

Its absolutely baller, tbh.

Regarding OCD: not sure if items are being lost or not, not concerned, but figured I would bring this to the admin attention:

If I have an item I wish to store, and I am using all 9 slots, just going through numerically (1-9) and let’s say I empty 1-4. Then I type in ocd:put:5, and while I wait for the server kick after cb:yes, I quickly fill slots 1-4. When I come back online, slots 1-4 are empty, and not in my inventory, and slot 5 still has it’s items.

Are these slots being stored or lost? I am not looking for restoring the items if they are lost.

To PVE Core Limits: Since yesterday after the Fortune Problem and a talk with the devs we implemented that Core limit over our tool.
Now you will be warned when a pve planet gets to full and also when it reached its limit. This way people can act o that or Admins will.
Sadly we cnat just control it, because anyone flying in cant just be soped by us or a Game funciton. But it should help and give people the idea: Ok i should not start building here, so i go somewhere else. That way it shoulf spread a bit better. Will see.

About OCD: Yes we had stillla lot ogf bugs :frowning:. Sorry for that. We should have waited a bit, but due to the trouble we mjust made some wuikc tests and had to use the whole day yesterday to find a solution with Fortune. But we fixed them now all we hope. Please keep testing it and let us know, so that we have it really secure until wipe.

About shadnix… yes thats a dev problem. We hope they fix it. we on our side might alos change something about the kicking… doing it offline and so on. But that needs a bit time. Just dont change stuff right before a kick for now.

[quote=“RexXxuS”]1. well you can see it differently. On the one site: sure, they have an advantage over new player but well… new player has nothing anyways. It sounds all the time for me that we should give new players 250k credits to be “fair”? :wink: Imagine you have played 2 months on the server and everything will be wiped. We think 250k is not too powerful but not too disrespectful to their playtime also.

  1. I think everyone who have played more than 50 hours Multiplayer in Empyrion should know that PvE is not ready in that game at all. And that is a problem all the time. There is still no REAL solution for the cernel problem. Always fixing symptoms like add more and more and make limits here and there… Anyways I think we go with 3 pve orbits and 3 pve orbits + planets (in terms of the Peacekeepers). Of course we will have restrictions for each of them again.

  2. Lost items is new to me? But yes, that will be 100% ready then.

Regarding your idea:
ask the faction MAD. They are specialist in that thing :slight_smile:[/quote]

The Wipe

  1. Wipe for MMORG games are a bad thing. There were RTS that did wipe but kepts stats but didn’t bode well with me. Empyrion, to me, is more MMORG than Space Engineers, Although; Space Engineers have many wipe. This server is offering automining, OCD, and workable economy in Empyrion platform. Should you have a wipe, the economy goes back to stone age. Giving everyone 1,000 credits is still bad as starting with 0. There are people that won’t spend their credits, other will hoard, and some will use the money to exchange one good for another. I just don’t see everyone having $1,000 is fair as much as everyone start from scratch. People who played in previous HWS round, should keep their money because they put activity into the server and its host. But, after following what people says, OCD is kept after the wipe which in my book unfair too to compared to giving everyone 30k money. But, if wipe is meant for keeping server in top shape than money should be rollover (after AM 100% reimburse - see point 2.), not the OCD or AM. This should keeps the economy in a good start. As you increase the value of OCD and AM, so will the marketplace activity!

  2. Balance, balance, and more balance!

I believe AM balance is awkward. In AutoMine, Sathium ore views as “rare” in automine but easy to acquired in large quanity. Neo isn’t rare. It is abundant but not needed compared to ZA and Ere. To the traders that complained about ZA contract, it isn’t a high consumable resource. Once you have a stack of neo, za, and ere, you are pretty much settle, sad but true. But, Cobalt is RARE! and in high demand! Cobalt is very useful for armored. Instead of neo and sath, makes cobalt stand next to gold. And, please, remove gold ore from the automine, it isn’t needed. It just makes it too easy for everyone to have daily “free money”. If anybody have to complain about people who have money from “Wipe”, AM’s level cost should be raise to keep the economy challenge alive instead of 0 or start over.

Factions’s OCD cooldown. Lawless should have less cooldown than Pirate. Lawless, contrary to common belief, can be more lawful than pirate while pirate can be more lawful than lawless. Robin Hood concept. Robin Hood philosophy on HWS servers are dead but just my opinion. Lawless aren’t sociopaths or want to beat up everyone that they see. But, compared to pirate, pirate have one agenda, to steal, raid, and plunder not to cooperate always. Between pirate and lawless, pirate raid more than lawless. So, are lawless and pirate the same? Make pirate’s 24 hours, and lawless 12 hours!

0 to 1 hour cooldown are OP. It doesn’t serve a PvP or raiding perspective and encourage unfair “offline raiding”. OH, look! The pirate coming! OCD:giveall. :smiley: Then, pirate leave, do OCD:takeall. 0-1 hour cooldown too short and can be easily used over and over again between worlds. In Minecraft server, people donate for what people get for free. A easy virtual storage access. And, when people are about to get tired, yes, they used OCD to lock up their stuff and log off. OCD doesn’t provide a healthy game play immersion. To clarify, It takes people’s mind off of Empyrion and more on to daily mundane security tasks. For says, you feel tired, no problem, use the command OCD:giveall, night night fellows and go to bed. Then, waking up, you look around and do OCD:takeall. Doesn’t seems what Empyrion is about but when comes to balance, everyone matters! But, people have to ask, “What if I am stranded on the planet with no contructor in OCD, now what?”. People would be encourage to sell or buy stuff, join other faction, and/or start over. And, if they have money, that won’t matter because you can buy easily most things and can be cheaper than buying large stacks of ingot at a time.

Finally, I propose a Salvage system command or mod that can deconstruct or salvage steel plate or ships’ part back into mineral. I mean. This would have means a lot more in this server. Devs have done a fantastic jobs so far with gold, OCD, and AM, Web GUI, etc. Definitely deserve an applaud and many thanks!

  1. Warning!

Warning protocol is broken. Pirate get warned in PvE but get no consequence? I am not sure if that was fixed. OH and repeatedly warn!

Repeated CV left in Cross-Server message. The message keeps repeating itself over and over. I am not sure if it to tells everyone how intelligent the faction is for leaving a CV in Cross-Server. lol

[quote=“Teleprovider”]

  1. Wipe for MMORG games are a bad thing. There were RTS that did wipe but kepts stats but didn’t bode well with me. Empyrion, to me, is more MMORG than Space Engineers, Although; Space Engineers have many wipe. This server is offering automining, OCD, and workable economy in Empyrion platform. Should you have a wipe, the economy goes back to stone age. Giving everyone 1,000 credits is still bad as starting with 0. There are people that won’t spend their credits, other will hoard, and some will use the money to exchange one good for another. I just don’t see everyone having $1,000 is fair as much as everyone start from scratch. People who played in previous HWS round, should keep their money because they put activity into the server and its host. But, after following what people says, OCD is kept after the wipe which in my book unfair too to compared to giving everyone 30k money. But, if wipe is meant for keeping server in top shape than money should be rollover (after AM 100% reimburse - see point 2.), not the OCD or AM. This should keeps the economy in a good start. As you increase the value of OCD and AM, so will the marketplace activity![/quote]

Just to make sure: We are not wiping for donations or anything else. We have to wipe due to the game. Its still an Alpha game! Our wipes were so far only when due to Alpha Updates Devs suggested a wipe (which will definetly happen with 3.0), or when the Server got unplayable in former times due to all the bugs (which got a lot better, thats why we did not wipe since 2.2).
We have a donation system made to make wipes easier, but in no way we force wipes for donations. That would be more direction PayToWin, which we dont want.

OCD was also made to make a wipe a lot easier also for non donators. Everyone can save stuff there so noone is really playing from scratch. If you played long enough you understand the benefit of this system. People who had to go through x wipes dont want to start all the time from scratch (some do some not)… since its quite hard to loose and start all over we implemented this. People who start now on the server have the same problem that they start from scratch while others have their empire, so not much difference.

About OCD and “combat logging”, of course we have to see and have to balance it, but thats why we already implemented cooldowns. We will further work on it. Best is to discuss this in the proper threads.

Really random that OCD is also in Minecraft meant for such things. I don’t play Minecraft and didn’t know there is something like this too. I just thought about a cool name “Orbital Cargo Drone”.
There is a motivation to donate to get lvl 5 but not necassary. Like Jascha said.

I think you are new to the server so you missed the feedback discussion: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=268 but in general there are pros and cons, sure. We have the Gold Auto Miner for new people to overcome the 10% marketplace fee and for lategame purpose if deposites and meteorites are very very rare (in 3.0 universum).
We had this already: making people grind to be able to do stuff. Not good. But if we see that one Ore is really high needed we will take care of this in the new universe / or look into the Auto Miner outcome.
I think the point is that there is not much what you can do with your Credits (beside the 7 million lvl 5 OCD).

Well depends on the Lawless guys in gameplay terms because lawless can be everyone. Even Lawless Trader. Lawless / No-Faction player just don’t want to follow the common faction directions. We don’t want to restrict people so it is their choice.
About the cooldown: maybe you missed the point or I forgot to mention but you have no cooldown on PvE playfields (there you can’t abuse it).
Trader and Alliance are at the moment the weakest faction. They have a special philosophy and we want to encourage people to go that way. It is a dynamic balance system.

We already got ideas of a repairing station or what you want but since we are no game devs this command / feature is not possible right now.

About the warnings, yeah our first implementation was to only warn them since Pirates can also start on Mars (PvE). Would be not sexy if a just joined player will be punished. The next step is to follow the story line.

Thanks for your feedback.

Ok I’ve got to argue this point from my perspective, I admit i’m a care bear player, but that doesn’t mean I don’t mind a bit of PVP when I want to PVP, this is why I choose a trader class, this doesn’t exclude me from PVP and I can be attack by lawless and other faction which I accept, I already loose my ships to this which I accept because this is part of a PVP server and what makes it fun why should I loose my hours of grinding as well? when I have chosen a more relaxed class because that’s the type of player I am, otherwise yeah I wouldn’t enjoy the game and would just quit. Not everyone is hardcore and this is the reason for the classes so people can pick there roll, and I admit I used the OCD yesterday in this way to save my stuff when I got attacked and why not?. However if this is an issue for those hardcore PVPer’s then maybe impose a delay on putting stuff in for certain classes but I don’t think this should be a flat out rule that everyone has a delay because not everyone is that hardcore that they don’t mind loosing everything especially when OP is so broken atm.

To be fair, this all sounds like Dev problems, not admin problems.

A wipe for 3.0 is pretty much necessary, I hate the idea of a wipe as much as everyone else does. I’m honestly only playing right now to get my teams OCD ready to transfer as much of our stuff as possible.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not being a cunt and saying you lads can’t discuss stuff, or even in the way we’re doing it, I’m just saying that this is mostly stuff that the Devs handle, not our admins.

Are we wiping the server?

When is the server wipe? I heard its this evening somewhere, you should have told us Rexx. Its good thing that you are removing all PvE planets finaly, also seting limit to 100 cores per playfield is good thing. Keep it up!

:coffee:

is it wipe :)? good news! i can finally play again! and i hope to see you duke ingame aswell! missed you so much :slight_smile: