This time I do it publicly. Hopefully the minor exploits listed are not great enough to not post publicly. I hate walls of rules, we all do. But it seems that the admins are not in large enough numbers and are often not clear enough in what they allow and what not. After having seen that my PM did not have enough impact (and may not even have been taken seriously) I post a completer one here:
input OCD-ing or dumping items into the marketplace (with or w/o macro) before combat-logging.
Spamming BA’s/HV’s to circumvent the turret limit.
AFK mining, building, gathering, harvesting, salvaging, etc. with or without macro’s. You may use macro’s to hold down the 2 mouse buttons for you, but YOU must be the one walking around, aiming, etc. Do NOT use a macro for that.
Colliding with enemy ships on purpose for the purpose of blowing them up inside out.
Destroying/looting an enemy ship after accidentally having it blown inside-out after you clearly witnessed or were in formed that this happened. Leave it alone.
Using the marketplace to transfer items to players in PVP zones who are in combat or will soon use it for combat. This includes the wanted, sales and pending lists!
Using the marketplace to gather resources (like mining gold) naked and/or to zerg enemy structures.
Traders or Alliance attacking and/or chasing other Traders/Alliance. Note that accidental shooting might happen after warping but as long as you don’t chase after that and attempt to turn off your guns or warp away soon after it, this will not be punished.
Pirates killing people for the sake of kills. They are supposed to steal from people, not wipe them and their structures out for the sake of killing. That belongs to the lawless faction. So no building BA’s near meteorites and allowing players to hand over their ship (after you disabled it entirely) in return for letting them live. Even pirates have a code! Note that building BA’s on top of combat-loggers is allowed.
Using private (or public ones on donator planets) structures on PVE planets for the sake of dodging taxes.
Flying private ships in PVP areas (until the devs fixed this). They must be assigned to a faction or must be public.
Do NOT park in the elemental market to dodge taxes or for the sake of a save haven. This is already a rule but I saw this happen quite a bit for longer periods of time.
Abusing any kind of line of sight vs BA’s. You are allowed to hide behind a hill/hole and arc-shoot over it. But exploits (should be fixed by now) like hiding behind a tree and shooting from there so the BA can not see you will be punished.
Shooting BA’s out of their turret range (unless you arc-shoot from behind a hill/hole).
Docking SV/HV walls to your CV for the intended prupose to get more cheap armor and/or to mess with enemy turret aim.
NOT reporting exploits that you encountered that are not yet known will be punished. Even if you didn’t use it.
Defaming other players/factions/admins/police without evidence (already a rule/law now I believe) either in forum or in global.
Real Money Transactions to buy/sell services/items/donator planet spots/etc. ingame.
Combat-logging. (It is too hard to track if someone logged out purposely or had a dc/etc.)
Multi-acounting but under the following conditions: Will not be used as market ‘bot’, HWS-miner ‘bot’, RP farm, storage mule, avoiding death penalties or as a way to decrease taxes.
Using huge blocks of SV/HV/CV to drain and/or decoy enemy turrets. You may also use them to make enemy turrets blow themselves up with their splash damage.
Attacking aliens or alien world while the server lags tremendously so that their AI mostly or entirely stops functioning. This is simply too hard to track whether this is being abused or not and therefor must be allowed to avoid falsely punishing players for now.
Farming rare resources on alien planet.
AFK-ing. AFK-king should never be profitable in the first place. BUT AFK-king in medbay to avoid death/food/oxygen is not allowed not even as a fail-safe while you eat for 45 minutes or walk the dogs. Just logout or do it outside of a medbay.
Disabling front thrusters to save fuel or just to be lazy.
Using rockets or other weapons to dig including collapsing enemy bases in PVP.
Macro’s are allowed as long as you do not fully automate tasks. When in doubt, ask on the forum/PM first and post your macro there.
Rough guideslines for admins/police:
If something is not disallowed in the rules and is not obviously a serious exploit beyond any doubt, then a new rule/law must be added and the offenders must be warned and be allowed to fix their mistake where applicable (perhaps they caused damage to someone else). If something may or may not be an imbalance and not an exploit, then that means this was not clear enough. By allowing them to fix their mistake, both the victim (if any) and and offender will both be more happy than just punishing the offender for something he didn’t knew and leaving possible victim’s empty handed.
Never apply them retroactively after adding new rules unless it was a serious exploit that they should have known, beyond any doubt.
Players must be punished equally. Same offense with the same frequency/impact/etc. should have the same amount (to the best of your ability) of punishment. If person A exploits and hurts person B and person A get’s a BH contract and then soon thereafter person B does the same to person A but receives a week in prison, then something is not right.
This also applies to whom is punished and whom not. You can not punish offense X but ignore offense Y because “oh that’s not serious enough” or “I don’t have time for that” or “I’m having a good/bad day today”. Well you can do anything you want but it will create: drama.
Further suggestions / ideas:
Force pirates to adapt a tax-policy. You want a save haven near the pirates? You want to mine on ‘their’ planets? Then the pirates must allow you to do so as long as you pay them taxes and as long as you ask them BEFORE you do it. Either a fixed amount or a % of what you harvest/mine/collect/trade there. Pirates will not be allowed to breach this contract as long as you pay them. If an admin finds out you are deceiving the pirates by paying a lesser % than you agreed on (pirates can’t verify this), then you get punished.
Give Lawless their own planet(s). Saying that they gotta live on the rota-pve-planets is a terrible idea. Right now a lot of non-roleplaying-players flee into random factions just to have a pve planet (=faction abuse to be honest) or are forced to pay 170 for a donator planet. Also give them perks just like every other faction including a supply package and give this faction the best or almost the best perks.
Get rid of the passive income perks ASAP.
Temporarily stop the NPC traders until a better system is in place.
Increase taxes, they are a joke for larger factions.
Cores should be at the center of mass of a CV/SV. The center of mass may not be abused to make it relocate to empty space. Building HUGE ships with your most important components not at the center of mass is allowed (and is smart design). If the enemy blows a huge hole at your center of mass and you can still fly, not your problem. Devs fault. Yes at this point enemy homing missiles and turrets may bug out but impossible not prevent it for larger ships. This ‘exploit’ will always be there for larger ships.
Remove or drastically lower the za/neo/ere in the donator package. Perhaps add some fuel instead for it. It’s waaaay to overpowered right now. 1 such package = enough to last you an entire major patch for most players… No need to mine it anymore. Now imagine 10 of those packages… This is too much pay2win.
I forgot quite a few but this is what I quickly put together out of my head + that list I posted earlier. Please critize the above.
This is exactly why we need clear rules…
Some people believe these things are allowed and some don’t.
I’m pretty sure this is already forbidden. And yes CV’s are nearly unkillable without resorting to exploits due to the no-block-limit and turret- and gun-limits. Or praying for a lucky lag-shot.
[quote=“Xanif, post:2, topic:2371”]
Every time we get a kill we strip it entirely of all components so…yes, we’re wiping out your structures.
[/quote]Mmmm I forgot about the stripping. So okay then that section that I wrote there makes partially/entirely no sense.
This is not the problem. The problem is that turret targeting is really stupid at the moment. Unfathomably stupid. The devs are aware of this and they are changing turret targeting away from the current system and towards targeting devices.
Once that happens then clipping will become more danger than it’s worth. I clip all the time and it’s far from free. I take almost as much damage as I deal out. It’s a calculated move and it’s incredibly risky. In my opinion it should remain permissible as it’s the only way to actually end a fight between two competently designed ships.
Pirates and tax policy:
I’m 100% trader (which basically means “miner/builder/hoarder”) and I could imagine a scenario where i would pay a fair % to mine resources controlled by someone else. The reason that doesn’t happen today is that i don’t trust any of the pirate factions … like AT ALL! They cheat/steal and plunder, which is in their faction dna after all and they would sell their virtual mother if it gave enough profit. Making rules that pirates MUST take a % and allow people to mine “their” resources is a step away from role play i.m.o.
If the resources was controlled by a faction that i trusted, i would seriously consider it … but as it stands today NO WAY!
Trust has to be earned over time.
I totally agree that the current faction rewards are over powered from a PVP standpoint. They give you all the rare resources without the need to got to the homeworld planets and become target practice for teams of campers and/or their turrets.
Just remember that not everyone is interested in PVP and forcing/channeling people into the PVP zones will drain the population of people who only wants to mine, build and survive.
For 100% PVP’ers it’s probably an alien concept to only want to build stuff, but this is not a pure PVP game … its a survival game with a PVP option … thats why it’s named PvPvE.
HWS is by far the best server in the list and PVE players should be welcomed like any other playing group.
But again yes, the currect faction reward system is OP from a PVP stand point.
Maybe what HWS needs is a 100% PVE faction, with a limited number of systems to use, HARD penalties for visiting PVP systems, no ability to even hold gold in inventory and no access to the market place. Maybe add a 2 day waiting period to become a PVE faction. This would also give new players more than a few days to try out the game and learn it, before being thrown out in the universe, force to PVP against established players or flee to an over populated faction planet.
Just some ideas.
I fully agree that turret targeting is totally broken/stupid for at least several major patches now. It has been improved but it’s still garbage.
[quote=“Xanif, post:4, topic:2371”]
Once that happens then clipping will become more danger than it’s worth. I clip all the time and it’s far from free. I take almost as much damage as I deal out. It’s a calculated move[/quote]You can design ships that can counter this clipping relatively easily as long as there is no block limit. You can still get unlucky (if they hit your core/cockpit in one shot) but you can mostly counter it. And because most noob CV’s are not designed to counter this ‘clipping’ (they build all fuel-tanks, cockpits, etc. in the center of the cube behind 10 layers of armor), you can blow them up with literally one shot and they are instantly beyond repair.
Allowing this would create some funny small suicide ships aimed only at blowing people from the inside.
But be aware that this tactic is forbidden, it’s not a rule and I know that a lot of people feel differently and also use this (admins/police should be more clear about it!!) but it’s forbidden:
[quote=“Achilles, post:7, topic:2209”] purposely (or making it look accidentally) colliding my ship into a another ship to blow it up from the inside
If it is on purpose then yea it will be punishe. If evidence shows someone ‘Ramming’ or ‘Accidentally’ colliding several times we will take action
[/quote]Proving it however is hard and you can’t rely on the police/admins with their current vague policies. I know that almost every player on the server must be punished if they enforce it all under rule #1 like they did with the afk-ing . It’s just a huge gamble. If you don’t use it, you are at a disadvantage, if you use it, you may or may not get punished some day and you don’t even know what is allowed and what not. And sometimes they punish person A, but don’t punish person B… Look at me, I didn’t even use those ‘tactics’ but they got me for rule #1 for afk-ing + a lot more accusations so imagine how mad I was… There is still full anarchy going on and sometimes they punish the wrong players. C’est la vie…
Yes thrust + pirates/lawless is not fantastic. That’s why I was theorizing to make it a faction guideline.
Do you really need rare resouces if you are 100% PVE? You can buy the rare resources from npc packages/market/donating and you don’t really need much in PVE and you can get some from the alien planet. Even 1 layer of armored windows owns all aliens in PVE (so broken).
You mostly just need some iron or concrete or wood to build right? Unless you just want za/ere/gold for the sake of having it in your OCD. Or perhaps I do not understand. Also this server does not seem intended for people who want 100% PVE or 100% PVP (sorry Thranir). It seems intended for a balance between both and with the current game limits that will probably be a while longer, if not forever.
Correct, only for building you don’t need a lot of the rare stuff. What’s in the donator packs/faction packs is enough even for building very large CV’s or BA’s which is my hobby. The problem is that the same packs are OP when it comes to PVP, atleast for everything except sathium which most people building PVP ships will need lots of … more than can be found in packs unless you donate A LOT.
So removing/nerfing the donator packs will effect PVE-players and keeping them will effect PVP-players, hence my suggestion where only PVE players get the rarer resources in faction packs. Maybe i should have said it that way and not just hinted it.
It seems we agree on what kind of server HWS is; PvPvE. It attracts the widest range of players and test the widest range of play styles and in the end will find the most amount of bugs … which is really (i hope) the reason we’re all here: alpha testing.
I disagree completely. We at Rat (Now ImP) believe that the server should do away with the faction system and remove rules that are just too hard for them to enforce. If ya think about the admins they are most likely under a lot of stress running this server
I would love to hear from them on this post. This way admins can concentrate on running the server and and not the game. The game will eventually balance out especially if the devs put in a feature to allow factions to be friendly or not. This would allow the admins to easily do away with the server based faction system that is probably bogging them down with constant complaints and crap associated with the server based faction system.
Your points in your post are worth a look at but things such as the macros and trader or alliance shouldn’t shoot or war at others in the same alliance, well they just don’t pan out. People like to fight, no matter if they are trader,alliance or pirate.
Would be nice if the admins can set up a poll to see about changing or even adding rules to the server
Interesting. I saw from your other post that your concerns are mostly with the faction system.
Yes the faction ‘guidelines’ cause a lot of extra police work and are mostly abused anyway and a lot of players don’t even know it (not talking about afk-king). How many hunters run contracts? How many alliance actually try to stop pirates? (I tried to but not enough active people and working together with other factions is really hard and I’m not suicidal). Look how overcrowded the alliance planet is! Most of them are all faction abusers… This has to stop, be it through my way, your way or Mordgiers way or another way.
Remember when faction guidelines were not enforced? A lot of angry people “I got raided by fake traders to abusethe OCD cooldown!”… That particular faction abuse is for some reason not rule #1 but okay that again is another story that I still do not understand. But that’s better than what we got now were admins/police punish people here and there but not some others. Or get more rules.
There is a big difference between rules and faction guidelines and then there are the invisible rules. It would require multiple polls. I just hope something will change. All directions are better than where we are now.
Agree 100%. But admins and police do enforce invisible rules&laws (and the difference between those 2 is also decided by them) as they see fit for themselves.
So we already know they don’t need rules to punish players for imbalances (admins might consider them exploits and vice versa on top of that). And we know that a lot of invisible/unwritten rules&laws exist.
In this particular case (imo major exploit) you by now should know this is not allowed and can not say “I didn’t know”. The “it was an accident”, honest or not, may still apply because that is just too hard to see. But you are knowingly crossing the line. But I again agree that they gotta either remove the rules (or add more) and hopefully no more punishing for invisible rules/laws/imbalances which for me was just the fuel on the fire.
Besides like I told Rexxus, if I would dig in older videos&screenshots of just friends, I would find sooooo many exploits being used that they believe is allowed that I remember them posting, just like you 2 are now saying regarding this one.
I appreciate your honesty, that’s also why I liked his post. Most people don’t even dare say/ask about it, knowing they did it a dozen times and some players were also like "omg Tiny that list you posted, that is all against the rules? I might have done half of that list. I didn’t know. Am I gonna get punished now?".
I also told him that a while ago in that same PM, especially related to the possible 10k block limit in combination with this exploit:
Basically even though some videos (not talking about that accusation poll-topic with SWP lately, that could be accident) CLEARLY 100% beyond a doubt show the abuse of this exploit, nothing is done by police/admins (I would have heard otherwise)… So basically, punish rate is low, anarchy rate is (imo) high, and they sometimes punish unknowing players on top of that. I like this even less than you do.
After accidentally using this bug, I believe (not sure) you are still allowed to continue and steal/loot/destroy their ship afterwards, further exploiting the exploit… This again baffles me but I might be wrong here. Because again, vague rules/laws.
And we are talking about just ONE exploit in the list. I also call this an exploit now and no longer an imbalance/tactic because I already know it’s now allowed. I still do not know if this is considered exploiting or law-breaking… Again the vague stuff…
Unfortunately the use of flaws games often difficult to track even with the video.
The developers are aware of all the problems, we always send them a video with bugs and exploits.
Unfortunately they do not curb action pridprenemayutsya, old problems have been around for more than a year.
But we have a bunch of new decor and testury.
The administration can not spend all their time on the punishment of players, so many things a blind eye in the hope of correcting this developer.
In the case of exploits against us, we will respond in kind but only a fraction of guilty. (Video violations we have enough to stay in a large series)
Please ask the developers to fix bugs and exploits instead of the new decor.
We SWP We are for fair play.