# What exactly are the ship Class and Block limits?
**URL:** https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/what-exactly-are-the-ship-class-and-block-limits/3999
**Category:** HWS General Discussion
**Created:** [January 21, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/what-exactly-are-the-ship-class-and-block-limits/3999 "2017-01-21T20:39:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Gatasku](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Gatasku)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/what-exactly-are-the-ship-class-and-block-limits/3999/1 "2017-01-21T20:39:48Z")
Hi.
I’m just a bit confused as to what the ship limits are for blueprints and for the server, as going by the 5.0 guide and the new patch notes it isn’t very clear to me. I understand that the Guide is yet to be updated.
**So the 5.0 guide says:**
> - Globally, there is a Class 4 Blueprint restriction.
> - 20,000 Block limit for CV
**The guide then refers you to an empyrion forum post which says:**
> Available Size Classes:
>
> - Class 1 = less than 50 devices
> - Class 2 = between 50 and 250 devices
> - Class 3 = between 250 and 500 devices
> - Class 4 = between 500 and 1000 devices
> - Class 5 = between 1000 and 1500 devices
> - Class 6 = more than 1500 devices (default)
**Now 5.1 is out and the forum post says:**
> Blueprint Class limit
> Anyways for now this means:
> - if your ship got suddenly Class 7 and above you know you made some bad design decisions regarding triangles
> - the biggest performance eater are lights. Try to use less but with higher light intensity
> - because this was very performance hungry and reflects also some problems for the server
> - so to not totally regret everything we will have a new class limit 4! It should cover both playstyles - PvP and PvE we hope.
This sounds quite confusing to me. This means that Class 4 is max for the server and not just blueprints now?
Please can someone clarify:-
- What has changed to the Classes of Structures from 5.0 to now in 5.1.
- Blueprint Class limit = ?
- Blueprint Block limit = ?
- Server Class limit = ?
- Server Block limit = ?
Thanks,
Gatasku
---
### Author:  [@Xanif](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Xanif)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/what-exactly-are-the-ship-class-and-block-limits/3999/2 "2017-01-21T20:45:41Z")
New formula is here:
> [@5.1 class size reclassification questions](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/5-1-class-size-reclassification-questions/3804/8):
>
> DeviceFactor = #Devices \* 0.01 LightsFactor = #Lights \* 0.05 TriFactor = #Tris \* 0.0001 Overall = (DeviceFactor \* 3 + LightsFactor \* 2 + TriFactor) / 6 Somewhere I found this. Not 100% sure if it is the right one. But something like this I believe.
Server is size class 4.
---
### Author:  [@Gatasku](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Gatasku)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/what-exactly-are-the-ship-class-and-block-limits/3999/3 "2017-01-21T20:54:16Z")
What’s TriFactor? Triangle type blocks?
So a ship with 10 devices 10 lights and 10 triangle blocks is (10_3)+(10_2)+10? =60?
How does that relate to the classes?
---
### Author:  [@Xanif](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Xanif)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/what-exactly-are-the-ship-class-and-block-limits/3999/4 "2017-01-21T20:56:21Z")
Tomcat made a breakdown of number of triangles per block
> [@5.1 class size reclassification questions](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/5-1-class-size-reclassification-questions/3804/2):
>
> I would have to disagree with your statement, Here is a small list of the most common blocks used for building, Using mostly sloped blocks helps you lower your triangle count instead of using just cubes [image] A level playing field is all we really need to keep things fair for both care bears and PVPers. While the idea of multi level classes for factions sounds good its also seems very exploitable, ex a current 10 man faction could break up in to 10 separate factions then ally together now …
Triangles aren’t triangle blocks. They’re referring to the number of polygons each block contains. The more complex the shape, the more triangles it is comprised of.
---
### Author:  [@Gatasku](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Gatasku)
#### Post date: [January 21, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/what-exactly-are-the-ship-class-and-block-limits/3999/5 "2017-01-21T21:05:28Z")
Oooh sorry i didnt expand the quote to see the whole formula. That looks like it makes sense.
So Server size class 4. Block limit still 20,000?
And blueprints exactly the same?
---
### Author:  [@Pumpula](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Pumpula)
#### Post date: [January 22, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/what-exactly-are-the-ship-class-and-block-limits/3999/6 "2017-01-22T18:15:03Z")
Here is the post you are talking about above:
[https://eleon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000605465-SIZE-CLASS-How-is-it-calculated-](https://eleon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000605465-SIZE-CLASS-How-is-it-calculated-)
BUT…
The top list is purely the device based limit… and trust me… if you plan to spawn something in HWS 5.1… you find it easy to get close to those limits.
REASON is… its not just the device limits… its the TriFactor too… and that one is the REAL B - - - C H to get under, and why most ships immediately went from Class 3 to Class 6 or 7.
I’ve spent way more time than i want to talk about reworking ships to get them back under the limit… its not easy for sure, and unless you are really attached to it… i suggest just building anew.
Hope that helps clear it up… theres lots to learn along your journey of ship building in 5.1 🙂
---
### Author:  [@Booyaah](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Booyaah)
#### Post date: [January 23, 2017, 12:49am UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/what-exactly-are-the-ship-class-and-block-limits/3999/7 "2017-01-23T00:49:45Z")
After doing a bunch of building this weekend, and attempting to play around with the class limits, I have come to the conclusion that the new BP classes are just stupid.
Apparently adding 1000 cube blocks, 100 devices, and 20 lights can make a class 4 shoot up to class 6. The picture below is using pretty much nothing but cubes and slopes (there are maybe a dozen curved blocks total)
The tri count is way too low IMO for class 4. I get it, 4 way connectors and curved blocks take a lot of polys and can cause lag, but I am really using none of those here. We need at least 300k polys and be able to have at least 300 devices IMO. Just for reference, a little Super Hornet fighter in Star Citizen is 300k polys, while the bigger CVs are like millions of polys without LODs. Just saying, it feels like someone just made up these class limits down one day without any real testing. I get its an alpha, but this is really neutering any kind of semi creative building.
Here’s a real gem:
500-1000 devices huh? 500 devices, 120k tris (100k less tris than my valid class 4 above), class 5 already lol. Getting charged way too much for devices as well IMO. It will be funny when 6.0 wipe comes, everyone will be flying nothing but slope ships.
---
### Author:  [@Gatasku](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Gatasku)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/what-exactly-are-the-ship-class-and-block-limits/3999/8 "2017-01-27T18:19:22Z")
Hey guys, thanks for the lengthy replies. Yeah it seemed a bit strict to start with but it isn’t as bad as i thought.
The main reason i was asking was because at the time i was halfway through building my first large ship and was hoping to bring it into the server at some point. Then after the update it was already class 4 and there was no way i was going to keep it at 4. All i had done was built the hanger and engine room (the rooms were quite large and had a lot of devices/blocks to make it look epic from the inside) and had designed rear thrusters at the back. Not even started on the outer body,cockpit,refinery,grow room,etc,etc…
So, i cut the engine room off, then used the hanger as the body for my new ship. 7700 Blocks,370 Devices, 21 lights (i will add more), Class 4, and looks pretty damn good in my opinion. It’s in server now.
I havn’t added much of anything for effect on the inside. All devices are for practical uses. It looks nice and all, but lacks the level of detail some might want. (I like the clean look anyway)
Then again, this is a pvp server, and the only people i can show it off to are my faction and allience. Can’t have it all i guess.
_Edit_ Here it is.
---
### Author:  [@Gatasku](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/u/Gatasku)
#### Post date: [January 27, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://forum.empyrion-homeworld.net/t/what-exactly-are-the-ship-class-and-block-limits/3999/9 "2017-01-27T18:26:06Z")
