Block type vs. CPU rating

HWS General Discussion
1

So I’ve been messing around in creative mode to try to better understand building bases and how CPU statistics add up for the upcoming activation of CPUs. Here’s some information I figured out on the FULL Large block types (I did not look at different shapes…yet). If this is posted elsewhere, I apologize for duplicating it. I didn’t see anything on this when I created the topic.

FULL Large Block Type
1 Truss Block = 1 CPU point
1 Wood Block = 2 CPU points
1 Carbon Block = 5 CPU points
1 Steel Block = 12 CPU points
1 Concrete Block = 14 CPU points
1 Hardened Steel Block = 22 CPU points
1 Xeno Block = 32 CPU points
1 Combat Steel = 40 CPU points
1 Armored Concrete Block = 43 CPU points

So now let’s look at the hit points of these blocks compared to their CPU points.

Truss = 278 HP / 1 CPU = 278 rating
Wood = 100 HP / 2 CPU = 50 rating
Carbon = 200 HP / 5 CPU = 40 rating
Steel = 500 HP / 12 CPU = 41.67 rating
Concrete = 600 HP / 14 CPU = 42.86 rating
Hardened Steel = 1000 HP / 22 CPU = 45.45 rating
Xeno = 1500 HP / 32 CPU = 46.88 rating
Combat Steel = 2000 HP / 40 CPU = 50 rating
Armored Concrete = 2200 HP / 43 CPU = 51.63 rating

So you would think that the mighty Armored Concrete block with 2200 HP would rule the day when it comes to a single block’s HP compared to CPU points, but no my friend. It’s the mighty TRUSS!!! LOL :rofl:

To put it into perspective: 1 armored concrete block would give you 2200 HP at the cost of 43 CPU points. 8 Truss blocks (combined-grouped together) would give you 2224 HP at the cost of only 8 CPU points! If I was to slap 43 CPU points worth of Truss blocks together (equivalent to 1 armored concrete block’s CPU points), that group of Truss blocks would have a combined HP total of 11,954 HP!!!

When CPUs get activated, I believe I will be gutting just about everything and rebuilding with Truss blocks and just have an outer shell of the individual higher HP blocks. I will still have to check on the different shapes of blocks to see what kind of ratings they produce based on the different HP they have and possibly different CPU ratings.

And I was actually disappointed at the rating of the carbon block. Maybe because I was thinking carbon-fiber type material? The carbon block to me is coming across a little wimpy in that department.

I do have to say I have not looked at mass or volume on these blocks either. I will have to relook at what “volume” actually represents in the game. All these blocks are the same size, taking up the same amount of space, so I don’t understand why all their volume ratings are different. I do understand the mass rating being different on them as each material has a different density.

Finally, what I was getting at is I can slap on an 8 row deep of truss’ around my ship/base and get pretty much the same HP rating as a single row of armored concrete blocks, and save my self 35 cpu points per “block” area, mass would be 2 tons compared to 4 tons, and the only loss is 60 SU volume for the truss’ to the 36 SU of the armored concrete block. But where does volume come into play when you are talking about protection around your ship? I have more research to do…

3 Likes
2

You are forgetting that we will also still be using class size restrictions on top of CPU. You need to factor class size impact into it as well then…

You are also forgetting about weapon effectiveness against blocks of varying hardness.
If you want to fight in a paper craft against real armor, have at it then… Keep in mind my weapons are way more effective against your blocks than yours will be against mine. I’ll be melting your armor away at a scary impressive rate.

3

I think its ridiculous that blocks themselves use CPU points. Not much need for processing power for a series of stairs, let alone a wood slab. Plus using truss blocks will up the class size due to the triangle count.

This is the empy way to force greater performance by nerfing all existing ships and bases and dumb down creativity.

5 Likes
4

Honestly, the entire CPU mechanic is flawed at it’s very core for many reasons. Just look at the extenders and the CPU limits. You have to place x amount of extenders before they do a single thing. Then the difference between T4 and T3 is so great that if you lose a single extender on a maxed out T4 ship, you instantly can’t move because you are so far over limit now. There is absolutely zero point in placing the lower tiers as redundancy backups then because all they do is use power and take up even more CPU for absolutely zero purpose.

Then there are the major problems with the new flight mechanics and the top speed calculations. You have to have stupid amounts of thrust to have a halfway decent speed, then it’s not exactly fun to fly because it’s so twitchy all the time. Can’t turn thrusters off to lessen the twitchyness because then you can’t turn properly anymore and also are right back to abysmal top speeds.

We pointed all these faults plus MANY more all on the first day of the first 10.6 Exp release. The developers screwed their game up bad with A11 and they are ignoring all negative feedback and aren’t even planning on fixing the core problems with the new mechanics according to Hummel recently. He confirmed that no more major changes are coming to either system, only minor tweaking CPU values and that’s it for a long time.

The new flight mechanics and top speed calculations alone are just about to make me plus many others quit this game forever if not changed.
If HWS does decide to use CPU next season in it’s current state (plus the issues with flight mechanics) I for sure will have no reason to keep playing the game anymore.

It’s not a threat towards Rex at all either, it’s just the sad reality of how this game is going for me now. It’s no longer fun what the developers have done to the game. I feel bad for Rex actually. He stands to lose a lot because the decisions of the devs.

5 Likes
5

I can’t share the many Skype meetings I had. Can’t share some discussions.
But believe me that I’m in a quite bad shape right now, pushing all-in for HWS 11 with a brand new universe and features, even though I know it’s going downhill with the game.
Did you ever worked very hard for something you had no external motivation for?

CPU and the new Flight Controller are bound together. You can’t turn off CPU, because the Flight Controller logic would go crazy. You can’t turn off the Flight Controller either, with or without CPU. It’s a dead end.

So the only thing what is left, is at least run this game as the Dev “intended” to be, so we don’t run into crazy exceptions as we do right now, because Dev did not test CPU: Off with the new Flight Controller.

Hardcoded stuff like hitpoints <> CPU values or CPU Tier Extender values can’t be changed by me but I try all my very best what’s left to still make it as enjoyable as possible.

15 000+ hours, 4 years into Empyrion and with one patch…

7 Likes
6

I feel your pain. I really, really, do.
I can only imagine your discussions with them. I can immagine things got heated up just a little.

I love this game. I’ve turned dozens of players onto this game over the years, with the majority of them loving the game as I did and sticking around.
Nearly everyone I know dropped the game entirely with A11’s public release.

I used to be able to trust Eleon to listen to feedback when something was broken and eventually end up resolving it one way or another. What they did with the Exp release of 10.6 really hurt their reputation to me. Badly.
Still to this day they won’t respond to any of our issues with the mechanics. We aren’t just venting, it’s beyond broken and they are happy keeping their heads buried in the sand.

I’m still holding out the last sliver of hope I have that Eleon does the right thing and fixes it with 11.5. I don’t think they will though. If they don’t I’m (along with many others) probably done with the game forever.

It’s not my dislike of the new features that will have ultimately driven me away either, not at all. What is driving me away is how Eleon is completely ignoring all the people pointing out the major issues.
If they were to just say “we’re aware of the issues and are working on it, it may take some versions” then I could forgive them. Every single day they don’t say that publicly is another step away from the game I take.

I mean, they straight up ignored all the issues with the new mechanics for 3 weeks while it was in Exp. Then they changed it to release candidate and we started basically yelling at them and they pushed it out anyways. They had plenty of chances to fix the issues or just slow down and re-evaluate. But no, they wanted to push broken systems out the door just so they have new content for the Steam sales.

5 Likes
7

I’m sorry for taking this thread off topic, especially to @Vengeance.
I’m just so heated at Eleon these days. My posts can be removed if you wish.

1 Like
8

yes it seems more and more the devs are just done trying to fix anything. seems their primary objective is to make the game unplayable. u won’t have to fix bugs if nobody plays the game :frowning:

9

Ot: Rexxxus you should shutdown officials servers so they will panick out :smiley:

via Imgflip Meme Generator

2 Likes
10

Good point here, if I were a PvPer. I would have to have a dedicated “regular” ship for engagements. Since I’m a PvE type person, about the only fights I worry about are NPC ones that I initiate. In the end, for me, it’s about saving a ton of CPU points on my PvE base/ships.

Doesn’t the information floor at EGS has the different stats on weapon effectiveness vs. block types? There is so much to evaluate now to find the best build…

11

100% agree with you here!! What does a CPU need to process about a slab of concrete? It’s an inanimate object doing nothing, no electronics, or other mechanical processes. Making the blocks count towards CPU processing power is ridiculous!

12

@RexXxuS I really love what you have done to the game and appreciate everything you have done. I plan on sticking around into HWS 11 and see how things turn out. It is a shame that the Devs are literally screwing you over with this latest update after everything you’ve done not only for your own servers but for them as a company as well.

Don’t let this get you down. Maybe you’ll get a Christmas miracle and the Devs will make some changes in your favor. Always try to stay positive while cussing out the Devs! LOL And just know that all of us playing on your servers appreciate every drop of blood, sweat, tears, and love you have put into making this a wonderful server to play on!

4 Likes
13

what he said!

1 Like
14

Yeah I’ve been away with class for a few months and my old server just shut down for good over the holidays. Hws seems pretty neat so far but Idc for these restrictions. Like what if I don’t want to pvp anyway? Couldn’t we have zone rules or something? Surprisingly some of my friends like rootzij ended up on hws as well but I’m on the fence about staying with current class restrictions as well. Personally if I wanted to do something competitive I’d play something else like an rts like like soase or civ or a fps or a moba even. I know I’m probably just speaking for myself here, I’m just saying while I really appreciate the amount of work that’s apparently been done with HWS, I kind of just want build to big.

15

I don’t know twitchy, I hate limitations and love intricacies yk?
I don’t mind the existence of these systems it’s just I don’t jive with the limits. I mean it’s a space game right? I get it if there is a substantial processor tax on rendering or something stupid large if a bunch of players are in the same zone or w/e but I spent a lot of time on my cv and had to start half way over once after a server crash, I mean it’s only a size class7cv. (Srry Still hurting about that clearly) but I digress-I too was kind of thrown off by the new mechanics the first time I tried to leave a starter planet hauling everything I could find so I know what you mean about flying wonky but I kind of like the idea of toggling equipment like rcs and thrusters depending on my cargo load. My question is what is the load like server side? How are these limits set? Do class limits have to be so definite? Pvp zones are specific right?- so if hws is catering to both styles of play why not tune pvp zones and pve zones differently? Not that I’m suggesting I could write the code myself I’m just curious. CPU limits are likely going to be tweaked one way or another I think so I am willing see how that plays out. I think the idea of volume vs mass makes sense right up until the size class ruins it. Again space game right? I haven’t tried rebuilding my hvs so I can’t speak much to that but I get the concerns there are mostly simular.

16

This is mostly directed at the Game Devs: Simplicity is always the best answer. Not sure why the devs had to overcomplicate things to artificially curb the behavior of the players to allow for the game to run as intended (or out of necessity b/c of IOPS limitations and coding “issues”). A more simple way would be to “tax” your larger ships and bases with fuel consumption, and agility; the bigger the more fuel, the less agile. So go ahead and build a gigantic ship or BA, it eats tons of fuel, thus raising the value of fuel to be the most important commodity in the game; just like the real world. Over complicating the building process without real physics and scalability pluses and minuses kill the innovation, diversity of builds and makes the micromanaging central, thus why you see the most efficient ships from a build, maintenance, repairing and combat typically look like a gigantic brick and have no inherent disadvantages in space or atmosphere than a wedge, delta wing or other more streamlined design. My ultimate wish is that the devs would allow for those in the community that wished to modify the game (like HWS) they would allow for a developer kit to change what we want the game to be. They might actually find a better game and then implement it in to the source code bits…it’s a win win, we get the game we want, they get free developers and testers. :slight_smile: