Good fight on GG, for the most part!

HWS General Discussion
90

These limits are not arbitrary by any means. I have thought about what would allow factions to play with people they know (I don’t want to separate players from their friends whatsoever) while still eliminating zerging (you must admit does generate lots of lag). If you think a different number is more fitting, by all means, suggest one.

I’m sure GMC does value its players. You wouldn’t have made a point to say so if it weren’t the case. Simple observation however shows this is certainly not always the case.

I agree, setting up alliances is a good idea. No faction should fight alone unless it wants to. Again though, alt factions too commonly end up circumventing base limitations, which this suggestion aims to fix (among other things). Also, if one meta-faction is countered by others doing likewise, extrapolate that to the extreme (where it will end up over time) and consider the ramifications. Only massive battles where playfields are maxed on players and everyone recieves 3fps will be the eventual result. This would be akin to the EU invasion of NA in V6, where battle was almost impossible for most players, and actually impossible for some.

Limits like this do already exist, in the form of core limitations per faction per playfield, among others. Organized factions (if they are truely organized) will respond to this change and adapt as they have always done. This is not meant to inhibit gameplay, but to enhance it generally and encourage PvP. Lagfests and zerg rushes inhibit PvP, but several daily PvP encounters will allow players to engage in battle more often and in an environment with reduced lag.

I will consider making a new thread for this, though it was partially (among other reasons) posted in response to a statement made in this thread.

Thanks for the reply,
Supreme

PS: The problem has not been solved on NA

91

I disagree with almost everything you said accept the adjectives. Big faction namely ours are a tight fit community as we all know each other and talk with each other on a daily bases. We do everything together on a whim whether its protecting each others miners or defending a ally base or just common tom foolery. Also limiting one faction large numbers means stunting growth as a community cause whats the point in asking a friend to join if hes gonne join someone else. @Supreme_Admiral.

Regards
I still like pie.:grin:

92

@tK_Hunter Again, I don’t wanna stop people from playing with their friends. If you think the suggested numbers disallow that, what number do you think would be necessary? Perhaps factions should not be limited in players and only in alliances?

Thanks for the reply. =]

93

Honestly i dont think putting up any max limit is fine. You may have people joining purely for PVE like in ACM. Not all our players are PVP oriented. Id suggest a completely different solution. Nothing to do with community building. Usually my premise to recruit new players is that i can provide them with security and a fun group of gents/ladies to play and participate with. Therefore no limit as faction sizes go. If your problem is your a small faction maybe break yours up and join us.

Regards
This pie is great

94

The limits i’m afraid are arbitary, and they damage and harm the big factions, which are often the ones that keep PVP going, especially on the quiet seasons. In regards to this ‘zerging’ i haven’t seen all that much of this. The maximum we’ve been attacked with this season is 9 hovers and 1 sv. Yet the playfield handled it remarkably well, it surprised even me! I don’t think any number would be fitting whatsoever. I remember the old days in 3 and 4.0 where you had the Space Wolves Pirates (SWP) Rolling around in a pack of about 30-40 laying waste to the surface of almost any PVP planet. I was unfortunately on the receiving end of that, but what we did was adapt. Slowly MAD and then in 5.0 PKA (now GMC) formed to combat the pirates, and we’ve been locked in mortal combat since.

I’ve seen numerous big-factions form over the years, from SWP to RED at its zenith to FST, UP and UST as well as us when we were PKA in 6.0 we hit 44 members! 44! About twenty of them were new players never-to-be-seen again. However the other twenty four were regular players, spread out and about all across the galaxy either for fighting, exploration, or harvesting. Ultimately it is this experience that has made the game so fun for me. Therefore I propose that there be no upper limit on playercount or on alliance count whatsoever. All it does it damage the whole sense of community and forces Rexxus to rewrite the limits for almost every playfield, as well a throw a considerable spanner in the works for new big factions that regularly migrate over from EVE (such as FST) or other Empyrion servers.

I also propose to say that what happened on NA was rather extraordinary. With this massive faction just allying up with everyone and setting up an uber super set of bases on GG…on EU i can safely say that will never happen, our whole joy stems from PVP and little else. Holding a planet just for the sake of saying we own it and little else would bore us to death. I really have no idea how you solve that problem on NA, as i know little about how it all works there. All i know is that we have no such problem on EU. Even at our Zenith our bases are composed of five alliances, and our enemies are still brave and organised to attack us and cause us some major damage, just yesterday they took out one of our defence bases.

I think the problem is yet again NA’s issues being seen to be whole-server issues when actually there is no such problem with EU. I would have little problem whatsoever with your solutions if they were restricted to NA, which might shake up the PVP for you. But the issue here is you’re trying to fix a non-problem on EU. Hence why this whole thread is titled ‘Good fight on GG, for the most part’.

Anyways enough from me for now, i’m running late for work, have a good day Supreme_Admiral and Tk_Hunter and i’ll reply when i get back from work!

Best regards
Wise

PS: (Our NA invasion was only ten players in a single star destroyer :slight_smile: it was our organisation that made us so deadly, we spent two weeks preparing that assault, we had enough res on our ship for that fight to last the full 24 hours :slight_smile:

2 Likes
95

@tK_Hunter I understand your point fully. My faction is not large at the moment, but could well be again if I were to convince many of our player (who left for the reasons I am trying to address here) to return. I don’t necessarily seek smaller factions, just smaller battles. Many players I know have become aggrivated with swarms of enemies making gameplay near impossible. In this case, the faction with the most turrets on site (generally the one with the most players) will win in a lag storm. If we were to counter in the same way, we would only cause the same problem, which is the reason we have not. We can do the same, we simply won’t be part of the problem.

To address your point and still reduce lag (trying to find a compromise), what do you think about limiting the amount of players a faction can have on any single playfield at any given time?

96

@Wiseman738 Yeah, props on that assault. That was WAY more than we ever expected.

I actually like your idea to impose this on NA (and am glad you somehow know these problems exist there) but not EU. I agree! The only reason I didn’t bring this up is that I didn’t think Rex would want to have different rules on each server. I am however VERY much in favor of that. And, pardon me for not considering the ramifications on EU thoroughly. It sounds as if EU’s much larger player base makes this a non-issue over there while it straight kills PvP on NA.

If @RexXxuS wouldn’t mind having different mechanics on the two servers to attempt to accomodate for their different populations, I agree completely. Thanks again for your insights into the EU PvP mechanics.

97

@Supreme_Admiral Well Id agree with @Wiseman738. Were on EU as well and none of the large faction gets along. Except for the 3 large alliances that make up the large factions. We haven’t had one off day on GG for the majority of this year and the holidays. If the issue is a NA issue then the resolution needs to enforced on NA. I still don’t agree with cutting faction to bits tho. Maybe aggresively limiting the amount of vessels or bases on a single playfield. Force them to move their numbers around more often.

Regards
’‘grabs another pie’’

2 Likes
98

The reason why some of the large factions stay together is that they value their members - AAA is another case where members are valued and appreciated for their positive skills. Large factions that do not value their players eventually break up. I have seen this on a number of occasions, so there is nearly always a turnover of large (and smaller ones too) factions. The situation is self regulating and does not need any arbitrary number limiting the size of factions. It strikes me that there is a degree of envy from some smaller factions who cannot be bothered enough to grow.

I started as a one-man-band, added a member or two, allied with another single person faction, allied with a small multiple person faction and as a whole became AAA which has grown somewhat since then. We have become allied with several large factions since in order to counter another large group of factions, but we do not do everything as a ‘super-faction’ because we still like to do our own things, so we are not some mega-block dictating to others. The problem with large battles dropping the frame rate should not be blamed on large factions, but on the fact that the game is still in alpha and requires a large amount of optimisation. The players taking the game to its limits is a good thing because it flags up the problems to the developers. Limiting faction sizes will only limit the testing of the game and therefore limit the ultimate potential of the game.

Please don’t try to limit faction sizes because you cannot do large yourself.

2 Likes
99

You make it sound like it’s 15 players vs 3 whenever you guys come down here in force. Sure, there are times when there are 3 of you and 7 of us - and that sort of thing. That being said if you come to ‘our planet’ then you should expect to be swarmed.

If you don’t like it - recruit guys, get organized, adapt. The reason why Op4/TPP get wiped so often if you guys do not seem to adapt or develop new strategies. Just today, I had GRG setup a base, and with one guy defending it vs 2 was able to do more damage than 3 or 4 TPP players, and he didn’t even have really tank CVs/HVS/SVs, he just had a good base design and some ingenuity.

Now, I’ve been down to GG on EU, and it appears there are groups of 3 - 5 factions in 2 or three spots on the planet. I’m not sure why one side hasn’t fully wiped out the other, but from what I can see the only difference between GG on NA and EU is that the average pvper must be more experienced.

For all your talk about the ‘zerg’ alliance on GG NA, we have never fielded more than 12 combat assets at a time, and on average it’s around 5 - 7 players. (At least on operations I’ve been involved in)*

100

The issue on NA is the attitude: oh well they banded together and have a higher player base than us, therefore we can’t possibly win.

Yet, they always use the same bases, the same tactics, the vehicles. Make no mistake, we have a lot of good fights on GG-NA, but the average player in our ‘swarm’ has more PvP experience. 80% of ACP has been around since 3.0 - 4.0.

Back in 5.0 days, when I was running around in a one-man faction I regularly took on the big guys. I almost never completely wiped them out, but I destroyed countless HVs/SVs and the odd CV. Some of my most enjoyable operations were assaulting Op4 on Iceworld, setting up a base on the right angle and putting massive holes in their hvs.

All said and done, our players are generally more active, and we have more resources to throw at a fight. So, unless the enemy wants to get creative they will not win.

101

As I have mentioned, we can do large numbers, but choose not to perpetuate the problem.

“The problem with large battles dropping the frame rate should not be blamed on large factions, but on the fact that the game is still in alpha and requires a large amount of optimisation. The players taking the game to its limits is a good thing because it flags up the problems to the developers.”

You yourself recognize that the game struggles with these encounters. I’m certain the Devs have realized this too, but have frustratingly chose to focus instead on textures and PvE content. The problem has been flagged now for several updates. Repeating the same action and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. The desired change will not be brought about by continuing this, but by adapting to what the Devs have given us, with apparently little hope for change (optimization). I don’t “blame” the massive factions, I “blame” the Devs and am simply looking for a workaround. If we could have massive battles, then I would be all for that. As you have pointed out though, it isn’t feasible at the moment.

1 Like
102

You say “we have never fielded more than 12 combat assets at a time” as if you don’t know that 12 comprises half of the allotted players allowed on a playfield. C’mon Ran, you know that’s excessive.

I don’t know why base clusters on EU stand for so long, but I can tell you why the ones on NA GG do. It’s because nobody bothers to attack more than 10 bases when half of them have OP turned on. It’s not worth anyone’s time to get shot at by things they can’t shoot back at, so we let you point drills at the dirt and hold your mouse button down. We have better things to do with our time.

PS: I have advocated several times for the removal of OP, but Rex doesn’t seem open to that. We did just fine in v6 without it though.

PPS: I’m talking less about ACP, Ran. I liked PvPing you guys in the start of the season. You attacked/defended with reasonable numbers and we had some good fights. You can’t say the same for all of your allies, however.

103

We already tried fighting on GG, with quite a few allies, however as admiral already stated the lag was ridiculous, so much that at one time I had to wait about 5 minutes for my SV to sit to see the damage it took. Hell just fighting with Beetle last night was a lagfest and it was only one SV and one HV. The devs need to wake up and do something about the network coding, otherwise we might as well play no mans sky (i.e. Single player)

At this point I could give 2 shits less about new plants and textures if you can’t fly or fight without it being a slideshow. Fighting used to be a lot of fun in previous seasons, now it’s a nonstop memory leak caching to SSDs and constant “cannot send more to server” when attempting to enjoy the aspects of PvP. This is unacceptable, and if you cannot take care of the player base you might as well fold up shop. Nobody here enjoyed single player, otherwise you wouldn’t be here. That’s why this game is running into. A single player experience until people get bored with it and find the next fad unless they do something about addressing the glaring disappointment that is PvP.

3 Likes
104

Well, not going to argue with you guys there - definitely lots of lag. Though it sounds like GG - EU seems to hold up with 10 - 30 combat assets running at a time.

105

I barely lag compared to previous versions so my perception of lag is colored by the past but this is great compared to how it used to be :smiley:

1 Like
106

Curious, what’s your hardware config?

Running a 3770k /R9 290x on 840/850 pro SSDs and 16gb ram here

107

Operating System
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
CPU
Intel Core i7 5960X @ 3.00GHz 32 °C
Haswell-E/EP 22nm Technology
RAM
32.0GB Unknown @ 1101MHz (17-17-17-40)
Motherboard
ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. RAMPAGE V EXTREME (SOCKET 2011) 25 °C
Graphics
Panasonic-TV (1804x1014@60Hz)
4095MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 (PNY) 30 °C
Storage
953GB Samsung SSD 850 PRO 1TB (SSD) 29 °C
232GB Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB (SSD) 22 °C
Optical Drives
HL-DT-ST BDDVDRW UH12NS30
Audio
NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device (Wave Extensible) (WDM)

108

The RAM is

Manufacturer Corsair
Max Bandwidth DDR4-2132 (1066 MHz)
109

What’s your memory usage over time usually hover around?

I have seen empy use damn near every bit of memory, highest was 14gb just for empyrion, rest was system processes.

It’s time to upgrade my system though, I’m not sure how the mobo is still holding out (pci-ex sockets lost power years ago, integrated nic hit by lightning last year).