The main building blocks have many variants to allow nicely constructed vehicles and bases, but those come at a price: hitpoints!
As soon as you deviate from the basic blocks and use thin elements for example you lose hitpoints, so outside PVE you can see the large majority of vehicles use mostly cubes, making ships look less nice than they could.
Durability is of course not traded for nicer looks.
That’s why I’d suggest to remove the hitpoint deduction on some elements like “thin wall” and similar pieces.
It would allow a bit prettier designs and a bit more visual room inside a ship of similar size as before.
There is also another argument here: thin walls cost exactly the same amount of steel as normal cubes, they cost the same so they should deliver the same performance.
Also if you notice those thin blocks and “half blocks” actually occupy a full block space when it comes to building on to it, so it’s not like you can concentrate more hp per unit area. They only provide aesthetic advantages, and already have disadvantages such as allowing projectiles to pass through where a full cube would not. Only other point I would make is if the hp were to be equalized, the weight must also be equalized.
Take a second look at the actual blocks themselves. The max HP blocks are not limited to “mostly cubes”. For example I think its called ramp bottom or something like that. There are plenty of options for contoured shapes, and lets be real, the pvp builders who use almost exclusively cubes for builds would do it regardless of hp concerns, because it is easier to sheet over damaged areas instead of recountour the whole area. Personally, I have quite a few pvp designs, and honestly a max of half of the outer blocks are cubes. Check out the Cerberus v14 on the workshop (Steam Workshop::Cerberus-V13.5) and see how long it takes to notice that literally every block I use has max HP.
Sorry, no good pics in my screenshot folder, but for the lazy out there this is the general profile:
As to this, yes they occupy it in the grid, but they have a smaller collision box. If flat walls go max hp, all you will see is the same cubic builds, but with one last layer of wall over the top at the end. Personally, I think there should be MORE of a penalty to HP for reduced size blocks. It makes zero sense that 27 cubic meters of steel should be the same hitpoints as a gentle slope that stops at my shins. Ideally, they should also cost less, yes. But since this is empyrion not Space engineers, we have to make do with what we can in terms of complexity.
Sure I agree that in many cases people will stick to simple designs, also during fast repair they will likely use cubes to patch holes.
However once back home they might decide to make it pretty again until next fight.
Even if people just use walls to put a second layer of armor on top, that’s not a bad thing, right ?
It means people will put that 2nd armor layer in a more beautiful way than now.
To make it correct Hitpoints AND Weight need to put on same level of course as n64 pointed out.
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I can’t find a disadvantage from doing that also no PVP advantage from doing it.
The only difference would be prettier build possiblities, no one would be forced to use it.
But even if it’s just a more beautiful layer of armor … with the new changes people will use those layers a lot more frequently. Why force them to cubes?
I fail to see how adding flat walls to the outside of a flat ship would add to the “prettiness”. Nor do I see the problem with low health walls on interior corridors, which is what you are proposing the wall block types to be used for. Lets be real here, if the thin wall between one room and the next is what is blocking you from cold unforgiving space, and enemy fire, you are already boned. 1k or 2k hitpoints is irrelevant at that point: you already messed up.
Dunno. I see your point that you dont want to be penalized, but I think you are blowing it out of proportion a bit. My original point stands. No one is “forcing” anyone to use cubes. People use cubes because they are lazy but want something one step above workshop pve ships. Basically all 45 degree slope blocks, and most of the 22.5 degree ones as well are already max hp. Not kidding. The only ones that really take a hit are ones I honestly wouldnt even WANT to use on a warship. They just seem too delicate, and make odd angles that do not mesh, adding needless triangles. Stuff like interior thin walls, slope bits to join to those, and floating curves.
Once I get home from work Ill make some diagrams and whatnot to show you what I mean about the armor and pvp aspect of it all. Main takeaway though: keep poking at the shapes. There are PLENTY of max HP options.
Hell, the Mako (the ship I gave ya the other night) is 150 blocks with not a single one below max health. By no means is it a cube, or did I feel like I was forced to use less than ideal shapes.
@mcprouty : Now that wipe was delayed a day we’ll need to fill our day anyway with something else :->
Yea I know, that’s why I wonder why you oppose the idea
You like to make beautiful ships, wouldn’t more available blocks just open more possibilities for design ?
I’m not sure if we’d actually have a disadvantage from adding those blocks to full armor variants, not all of them are useful but quite a few would probably end up being used in the “real world”.
Let’s put the “is it useful” part aside: Would such a change have actual disadvantages ?
Honestly if I want to use those lower hp shapes in a PvP ship to make it look cool I’ll use them regardless of their hp. But this is only after the ship is already complete and I’m just beautifying it a little. The relatively few insignificant blocks added to the exterior armor could all have 1 hp and it wouldn’t impact the durability of the ship that much in a fight. In fact maybe I’ll start using plastic blocks for that since they’re so much lighter and wouldn’t impact the speed and maneuverability of the ship as much just for a little aesthetic appeal.
I see the point of wanting to equalize all the shapes considering they all have the same cost and all occupy a full block of space of the grid regardless of how much of that area is actually collidable. There might even be some interesting looking designs that could work as PvP ships if those blocks were equally durable, but I think their odd shapes that tend not to mesh perfectly are a big drawback that prevent most people from using them extensively. It’s just not a good idea to use a bunch of curved slopes or whatnot in your armor or you’ll end up with holes people can shoot through. They work as an outer layer to make the ship look cool sometimes but most of your main armor is going to be cubes.
For multiple reasons. One being them not meshing like you mentioned but the main one being they have a very high triangle count and that is going to inflate the class size unnecessarily.
