HWS 10 Teaser | Mass & Volume | OCD | Shields | Era of Diamonds | Part 1

Typo or not. My cash and time’s gone.

If something seems too good to be true it generally is. Best lesson to be learnt here.

Could have been a typo, but it doesn’t change anything. I could even agree 10 is more fair than 100, but dozens of players have already invested a lot of time and money into producing carbon blocks based on assumption that they’ll be converted at 100, economy has already changed significantly because of this, millions have changed hands and reverting this is impossible. While increase in money supply with 100 could cause some inflation I’d still say 100 is the lesser evil here.

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And some people might get a lot of cash, but it’ll only be for 1 season, and cash will be dumbed into upgrades really quick, so cash won’t be there forever.

Also you can only carry 100mil over full wipe, so next season end, cash is gone.
Also thinking about PvP, it’s not like people get better at PvP because they have OCD 10 or something. I personally don’t care what OCD my enemies have.

Smile in the face, double standards and backdating in the back…
Dark, you and U-T got infected by OPG with a good attitude of Rex. Its hard, but you should used to it if you wanna play here :slight_smile:

Guys, the purpose of the reimbursement is not for you to produce now more to get some money later. Its for those who had some in the OCD to get at least some back and not “loose” everything.
If you start to use that now to get money we might have to change it completely.
Why do people always try to find loopholes and exploits…

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Because of the mistake and the rush for everyone to buy wood logs that resulted from it, would people be able to get some of the wood they bought refunded? This would go a long way to pay for the replanting of the forests that were cut down…

Seems like standard HWS thing is to make a mistake and put the blame on the players for using new possibilities.

You live on quite thin ice here as exploiter and blackmailer. You should be careful if you are interested in any future on HWS.

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In that case 100 credits was clearly a mistake since it made carbon blocks one of the most valuable items to store in OCD while it’s also very easy to produce. Problem is that once announcement is made people believe it and act upon it.

Almost everyone on server already did, huge number of trees were cut and huge number of blocks were produced, I don’t know what else could you expect by announcing 100 credits for a block which is so easy to produce? Calling preparing for wipe in optimal way based upon official announcements an exploit is just wrong since it’s rational behavior.

We will discuss it when rex comes back…

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I don’t know why everyone is complaining suddenly even with the block at 10 credits…

It’s so easy to make that it makes any argument pointless. And anybody who bought materials to get a leg up should be happy it’s not getting cut off. Seriously, it’s crushed stone and wood. It’s everywhere.

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Hey guys, currently on smartphone on a highway checking quick many mails I got.

Sorry there is so much going on only about Carbon, that was not my intention.
100 were a typo in the first place and many contacted me afterwards and said, bro fix it!
But I was totally busy with packing and driving the transporter.
Real Life First.

If there was any rushed marketplace action based on my typo mistake, I’m sorry.

But it is of course insane how much it can be abused and exploited. Especially since some players, who ironically even replied here, found an exploit to get infinite wood by Shooting at the trees.

So that all being said I do a half damage control due my mistake and we will change it to 50 credits per item, to also not ignore the massive legit concerns about what I said above.

Overall too bad that my real life situation will overall reduce the quality here and there of HWS 10, an awesome Alpha 10.

Another concern I have read quick: Before the wipe @Jascha and I will check every high carbon OCD user and how they got it.
If it was abused with the mentioned exploit or multi account pushing (which can be proofed) we will ban / wipe the player. No worry.

P.S. @IceDrugg don’t know why I permanently banned you on HWS but let you take part in the community you betrayed. My mistake. But fixed it now.

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If it had been at $10 from the beginning I would have thought it made complete sense. For me personally, I didn’t fully commit to the $100 because I was fairly certain it would change before the end of season.

Having said that, we also thought @RexXxuS and @Jascha were geniuses for finding an excellent way to rebalance the economy in the game and perhaps its worth keeping it at the $100 level. Let me explain:

  1. Many of the veteran players have commented many times about the smaller size of the economy this season. Veterans had an advantage since they have reserves/wealth from previous seasons where it was easier to acquire.
  2. Rather than a permanent buff to the economy the 100/block would inject a ton of new money into the game economy without creating a permanent advantage to the more powerful factions. Even smaller factions or single players could start next season with millions of credits where they would otherwise not have that ability. (This is much more beneficial at lower levels than higher ones because of the huge step up in costs for OCDs/Banks)
  3. Veteran players have had to think about trading out their immense reserve of resources in their OCD for the Carbon. This would have had the net effect of lowering the reserves of tactical/combat resources and will encourage more mining/trading in the future. This would bring the veteran players/factions closer to the smaller ones in terms of combat resource reserves which could help level the playing field a bit.
  4. An injection into the economy would encourage more market trading which will bring more fun to people who enjoy working the market. It would also make it so players could have the choice NOT to mine in order to acquire resources for a while as they spend their temporary money pile.
  5. It makes carbon actually valuable next season. Everyone is burning through their reserves of Wood/Stone. Yes - Its super easy to get these things but still it helps with resetting the value of carbon going into the “Age of diamonds.”
  6. It creates a buffer for everyone to learn/make mistakes quickly with the new game mechanics. Since its going to be an adjustment period, increasing everyone’s cash reserves a bit makes it so a lost ship or bad design early on isn’t as big of a deal since the materials can be replaced quickly and easily.
  7. It creates potential revenue at the end of next season to support the server. Not everyone will choose to spend all of the money and some will invest it wisely into bank levels, etc. At the end of the next season if some of that money is still on hand many a few more people will choose to keep credits. This supports the server we’ve all invested all this time into. =D
  8. Mid level players who joined recently and are heavily invested in the game have a chance to achieve one of the really difficult goals like OCD 7+ which otherwise takes months. Its like the server was giving a small step up/reward to players like that. This is also a benefit for the veterans as they get a boost to their money but its the least valuable for veterans because money becomes less valuable per bank level and you need significantly more than the $100 carbon can provide at any OCD level.

Other reasons to keep it at 100:

  1. It was announced and people relied on the announcement. I do think its fair to say that when an official statement comes out that players should be able to rely on what is said.
  2. @Jascha I don’t think its fair you spoke negatively about the players for making more of the carbon. For many of us, the pursuit we are enjoying and playing in the game is to build up money in order to build up our Bank/OCD/Recycle/Scan/Etc. We love the features your team has added to the game and when an official announcement comes out that says filling our OCDs with something is worth 100s of millions of credits, OF COURSE that is what people are going to do. You should not be surprised at all because you should consider the possible outcomes of your announcements before they come out. In this case, its players reading official announcements and then just playing the game to achieve their goals. Its not an exploit to manufacture carbon if its worth $100 per item, its an obvious decision to make. (I am speaking on behalf of the players who did this, I didn’t really think this was going to stay at 100 so I don’t have any Carbon in my OCD currently but did manufacture a small amount just in case from resources I already had).

Reasons to set it back to 10:

  1. Maybe I’m completely wrong on all this and Rexxxus and Jascha weren’t trying to do all these things or I am wrong about how they would play out.
  2. Carbon/Trees/Stone is some of the LEAST valuable stuff in the game up to this point. 1 Log makes 1000 carbon blocks so a single log turns into $100,000 in game (not counting the stone).
  3. It restores the market economy to what players had been expecting all season. The economy goes through a cycle each season and the end of season is all about prepping for wipe which has a huge impact on the price of materials, especially gold. Gold mining for significant quantities takes significant time. Many people spent countless hours this season mining thinking that the end of season economy would be somewhat in line with how past seasons have worked. Money that can’t be carried over and isn’t going to be kept with a purchase gets converted to gold via purchases on the market. Buyers need to preserve value into next season via gold and sellers are looking to make their final money for the season (or final upgrade). The $100 carbon has thrown the market economy into a very different direction.
  4. It mostly negates the value of “keep” purchases this season and makes it so you may not need to buy one if you were planning on it. Put simply - Why buy a keep credit purchase when you can fill your OCD with hundreds of millions of credits worth of carbon? If you wanted to start next season with a couple hundred mil, just OCD carbon and let your extra credits wipe.

Well - I could be wrong on all of these points. I just wanted to provide my thoughts so far. Either way, I’ll support the final decision and move on to the next season and continue to pursue my goals in the game. And don’t worry guys, I OCD’d TONS of Pentaxid so you can buy from me next season! =D

EDIT This took me forever to type out so Rexxxus got his new pricing announcement in before I posted. Its now set to $50 per the previous comment.

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Hey Rex,

Mistakes happen, especially when you have a lot of things on your head, I think your decision is a good way out of this so I’d say that Carbon Crisis is resolved :wink:

Well I didn’t get CC’ed on any of those emails!

/s

Had to say it. It’s carbon.

Good compromise rex, I thought it might be too good to be true. I guess I’ll switch my consructors back to gold lol. First time I used my tankwaker all season, to chop trees lol.

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Jascha I have been running games since the original Dungeons and Dragons in the mid 1970s and I can tell you that is just human nature and must ALWAYS be expected. Whatever loophole you create, on purpose or not, it is guaranteed that someone will find and use a way to exploit it, and also certain that that person will tell all their friends and they’ll tell all their friends. This is why when it comes to ANY aspect of designing or running any kind of game I am always urging people to be hyper aware of unintended consequences. You make a change intending it to encourage people to do X, but if there’s a Y that has a bigger payoff they will choose that every time regardless of your intentions, no matter how good for the game your intentions are. And if someone warns you about that Y you didn’t see coming, LISTEN to them, don’t just argue how much better X is for the game, because players generally will not care, they will act in their self-interest.

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A question on mass and volume: does mass matter for individual inventory or just if you get in a ship? Because in your example the guy may be within the volume limits but for mass he is hauling around 84,000 tons of gold which seems like a lot to pick up even with heavy armor.

Generally I think activating mass and volume is going to have a lot of very bad consequences that you aren’t thinking about. For one thing, all existing class 1 and probably even class 2 SVs and HVs will be instantly obsolete. Just the 300 Pentaxid I have to keep on me to get my faction RP bonus weighs 30 tons and that by itself weighs almost as much as the little Class 1 SV that up until now has carried me on routine runs to ECC. So that SV goes in the garbage bin. I’ll need to build a special heavy lift SV to retrieve the contents of my autominers and I’ll probably need to bring a CV and make multiple shuttle runs to the surface and back because no class 1 SV will fly with several thousand tons of ore. This is not going to make the game much fun at all. And I have no idea how we’re supposed to surface mine anything; a normal load of ore will weigh more than a heavy class 1 tank that requires dozens of RCSs and hover engines to be mobile - anything I currently use for mining will be completely immobile when loaded down with a few thousand ores even at the weight in your last example.

I have tried other servers that have mass and volume active and the above issues are why I don’t play on any of those servers. This game was never meant to be realistic in this area and trying to make it realistic is an absurd and futile undertaking. If you’re going to accept massive battleships that have 1-man crews and fly from tiny bases where there are no dock workers, no cranes, and no forklifts, you’ve got to just accept that people can walk around with a few thousand tons of supplies in their pockets.

Mate. With heavy armor you can carry like a million value. Do you know how much that is. A full inventory right now of gold, isn’t even 1mil. Those autominers you need to collect, can be carried easily most likely. You won’t need 50 extenders for each ship.