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I love SV plasma against CV! Finally a Sv could be a seriuos threat to a Cv ( if the CV turrets wont shoot :stuck_out_tongue: )
Killing a Cv with a Sv is a combination of plasma making holes in the combat steel and railgun for turrets. a bit tricky but hey is sv vs cv! Maybe a group of sv can take down a cv? Who knows!! :smiley:
One thing is sureā€¦Cv wont land safely on pvp planets anymore!!!

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Unless you changed the homing speed from the live server, it should be fine. What he was saying is that most SV pilots know how to dodge art fire. (You basically have to face tank a HV in order to get hit by it.)

Iā€™d also love to see a swarm of SV take out a CV and with this config it could happen but thereā€™s still 2 things stopping this from really happening consistently.
First, a CV in space can be just as fast and maneuverable as an SV, and with itā€™s much greater volume and surface area, itā€™s difficult to hit any one location repeatedly in order to cause the kind of vital internal damage you would want.
Second, SV have no way of auto targeting the warp drive so itā€™s very unlikely that theyā€™ll disable the CVā€™s escape ability very quickly.
But either way, SVs canā€™t just be ignored now

A SV can already take out a pre-fab CV at least with the current config. What they need to do is give CVs a role, and adapt their mechanics to that.

For example: CVs are large carriers/slow moving bases - not large SVs with turrets.

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Totally agree. Iā€™ve been telling Eleon that since they got the bright idea to implement t2 rcs. CV donā€™t need to and shouldnā€™t be able to turn like that. They should be big, slow, hulking battleships with very tough armor and powerful weapons made to blow up each other and bases and rely on SV support to defend them from fighter attacks in my opinion but thatā€™s not how the game is built. But a SV attack shouldnā€™t be a threat to destroy the CV, but to strip off its weapons/thrusters should they be exposed.

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With the feedback I got and my own tests and the splash damage fixed in the internal game build I suggest you test everything again. This is will however be also the final version since alpha 8.5 will be released on Monday.

But as I said, we then adjust from there until 12th September for a hopefully cool season.

Keep your eyes especially open on monday for

  • Improved Rail guns ā€” they are a total monster against turrets and devices but of course you must hit firstā€¦ so skill wins here. (take in account that we have HWS Garage ships with more than 4 Rail gunsā€¦ this counts for all weaponsā€¦)

  • Rebalanced Artillery and Plasma (Plasma did more damage than Artillery)

  • Cannon Turrets will have lower range but are also effective against turrets (Heavy Metal) ā€” this will solve the silly redundancy with the Minigun turrets while motivate good players for close combat rather than fly away and CVs on planets will be more attractive but still very vulnerable to SVs

  • Some other refinements about range balancements. This will take a long test phase though. On the one hand we try to reduce some ranges to force close combat to see the damage and vital spots in combat and reduce performance strain since projectiles are not that long in air to render. On the other hand close combat means more rendering load. A first version goes live on Monday, please test good. (not taking all planet atmosphere changes into account yet)

Last but not least: donā€™t get irritated by the ā€œDamageā€ value you see in the Info!
That is just a kind ofā€¦ ā€œbaseā€ value Empyrion calculates with.
If for example the Plasma Turret says 17000 damage this is NOT the real damage.
Everything depends later on the impact material, etc.

There was a rough rule that the base damage have to be devided by 15 to get the real damage per block. But on top of that there are coming multipliers again. Bit tricky so rather test by look & feel than an excel value sheet!

This all sounds great, in a high performance setting.

However, lag and disconnects are the achilles heel.

Have/are these being addressed? Granted, many past attempts ā€“ is there real progress?

Every cv battle I went into this season resulted in multiple dcā€™s.

Lag makes aiming with fixed weapons (cv or sv) nearly impossible.

Restrictions on playfields will help with this. Unfortunately, lag is part of Empyrion and that more or less has to be addressed on the Eleon side of things, so while I understand and feel your pain we just gotta make due with what weā€™ve got.

Hopefull shorter range projectiles will help reduce server load in combat since all those missed shots donā€™t have to be tracked nearly as long. Of course weā€™ll have to play test it to see how it actually performs in reality.

Shorter range projectiles on CVs can get silly. We tried it in version 6 I think (or Eleon did). It felt strange that my 200m long CV could only fire 600-700m in front of it. Surely they are meant for long distance encounters rather than just being bigger SVs. In fact on that last point - 20 or so fixed guns makes a CV essentially a big SV with a few turrets :frowning: I hope thats not the route weā€™re gonna go down. Macro users will be overjoyed thats for sure. That aside, I am looking forward to these changes - its always good to try new things. Thanks to Rex for keeping it fresh.

For CV and Base turrets Iā€™d rather just increase projectile speed. I agree though CV fights should be fought at 1km or so.

There are 3 potential solutions to the underlying problem; most weapons are ineffective in combat.

  1. Reduce ranges to force battles to be in the range where the other weapons are effective. This has benefits of being able to see the details of the damage happening to your enemy and precise targeting. It carries the problem of increasing the potential of ship collisions however, which could become a problem.
  2. Increase projectile speed/accuracy. This has the benefit of allowing all weapons to be useful at their stated ranges. It also makes CV weapons a prohibitively dangerous to SVs.
  3. Slow down CV speed and maneuverability, increasing the effective range of heavy CV weapons without actually affecting their performance directly. Currently itā€™s not hard for even a class 7 to dodge a plasma or artillery at 250m, much less 600m. If the ships werenā€™t that fast and couldnā€™t dodge a shot at 500m, the effective range of the weapon would be increased by that much. Adverse effects would be increased travel time in space for CVs.
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I agree with this.

Having CV that can not only travel much faster than SVs but can turn any direction on a dime is a joke

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This could be mitigated by ā€œclassesā€.

Class 1 and 2 CVs can travel faster (but not turn) and maybe 25% slower than a SV?

Class Size 3+ moves much slower, but can have a higher count of turrets per group.

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Iā€™d like to see something like that also but I donā€™t think thereā€™s any mechanic in the game code to increase or decrease device count limits or effectiveness based on ship class. If thrusters and rcs were simply less effective and armor heavier it could even itself out somewhat where smaller ships could still achieve high acceleration and turning but as they grow in mass the number of thrusters required to achieve that kind of mobility becomes ridiculous. The small ships still can have the same armament unless you make the heavy hitter turrets weigh a lot so they would require a large ship with a large amount of thrust to move them at all.

There isnā€™t right now, but there has been talk about implementing it.

What about the corvettes or hero ships? I think they are micro CVs in this game.

Please keep in mind!

While the Alpha 8.5 patch is out it does not mean our HWS Config is finished yet!
Use the time to give feedback and NOT to build big time consuming ships already!
We might change some limit numbers or values

P.S.: In preparation for the coming HWS 8.X season and the meaning of bases in PvP I increased the Hitpoints from armored concrete blocks from 3000 to 4000.

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If my earlier question appeared to be critism about hws config work, my apologies ā€“ not at all the intent.

My concern is eleonā€™s apparent inability to come to grips with the lag and dc problems. Think of it as a buildingā€™s foundation.

A solid foundation on which everything else is built is essential. Everything else built on top a bad foundation is weakened at best, or worse case, in vain.

Until eleon addresses the fundamentals, getting excited for the config changes is difficult. Hard to find it worth the time to understand and develop builds to utilize these changes when: 1) cant aim due to lag, and 2) will likely lose fights and bpā€™s due to dcā€™s.

I know Rex is doing amazing stuff with what he has to work with. Even more so, despite what he has to work with.

I see most issues from overworked admins, to server drama, severe limitations, and problems ---- nearly all having their root cause in eleonā€™s buggy, shallow, poorly designed and implemented code constructs.

If you havenā€™t already asked yourself, why does hws have so many rules? Follow the breadcrumbs ---- will lead you back to eleonā€™s poor design and code.

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