HWS Event Manager 2.0

RexXxuS · October 29, 2019, 3:54pm

Hi HWS Community,

a big day! Mostly because of Alpha 10.6 and what it means for the future. But we come to that later. Let me first present you the hard work of @Hayawen and tell you something about it.

HWS Future about Events & Missions

HWS Events & Missions. Something we started as pioneer project turned out to be a reoccurring successful incentive to spend time in PvP or PvE – rewards inclusive of course.
It is still by far underrated and only 10% utilized by players and possibilities but more and more a direction we want to push.
Why?
Because the default gameplay of PvP and PvE is not what I really have good faith in.
Empyrion was developed with Singleplayer PvE focus in mind.
So, be it PvE which gets boring after time because nothing is really dynamic or late game driven nor PvP with tons of rules and bugs but not the outcome PvP players deserve.
Obviously, Eleon needs more time to polish those things.
So additionally I want to give casual gamers and veterans a possibility to dive into a clear given environment, where PvE and PvP can be used to its fullest possibilities.

The combination of optional participation but basically on-demand gameplay without much to invest except your time and a reward as output is indeed something I see the future in for now. Be it Events by our Manager or Missions in general.
Nevertheless, for HWS 11 we work very hard to implement a Campaign / Story into the HWS Universe so even for this type of group there will be an early game, mid game and late game.

With the big help of Hayawen we try to migrate the current EAH Event Manager into our HWS Connect Event Manager.

This is controlled by our database and allows us more dynamic ways to do without impacting the EAH tool resources that much.

It allows us especially to create “on demand” events. Creating a queue you can sign up for anytime if possible and start the event once possible.
So find players, group up and go.
Not all Events will be like that in the future. Some remains static at given time.

We will start with the SV Deathmatch event to give you an idea how it works in reality.

You will find the HWS Connect Event page in few hours on the left sidebar!

HWS Connect Event Manager Features

Let me recap some important facts about it:

on-demand or time based event system
queue system for participation. We plan to integrate an offline queue + priority queue system for HWS Patrons
more event control. Deathmatch ships are automatically fueled and filled with ammo and spawn near you of course.
If you die in an event you get start event items automatically placed in your inventory again. No annoying backpack stress.
tons of options to precisely configure events. See below:

Battle Royale 2.0 Event!?

Once the SV Deathmatch works perfectly, we have already worked out the migration of Battle Royale into the HWS Connect Event Manager. Since we have more ways to configure it via the Modding API, we could also enhance this event with way more options.
Question: would you like to test it out?

The Battle Royale Prism is spawned randomly around the planet to make it always interesting
Battle Royale normally means the battlefield shrinks, right? Well, let’s do it in Empyrion too!
- every X minute the circle around the Pyramid is shrinking more and more. The outer POIs in that circle are turning into Defence Towers, which will kill you if you stay in that area.
  
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Please let us know your feedback or ideas ahead of testing.

New HL2 Arena Event

With the very kind and great help of @TargeT we got a new First Person Shooter Event Arena! It’s inspired by a Half Life 2 arena / map.
It’s bigger and has even some puzzles / rewards for you. We hope you like it!

The HL2 Arena Event will be available later today / tomorrow after I’ve configured everything.

Quake Arena rework

Just a quick info that the Quake Arena got also a little update.

Removed all Personal Container, since they are contra productive in Events
Added massive Epic weapons and ammo in almost every container box
moved the position to be always in the sun light

Alpha 10.6 and HWS Future

Well, best things last hm.
Alpha 10.6 Experimental got released.

https://empyriononline.com/threads/alpha-exp-10-6-cpu-flight-model-hv-sv-docking.90932/

And this is probably the most… controversial patch we saw in 4 year game development in Empyrion.
The CPU system is loved and hated by many so far. Only tests or denial or acceptance will show the final result.
But what does this mean for HWS? We are the largest Empyrion Multiplayer server with a big impact. It’s our responsibility to talk / decide about this for the future.

Impression Poll

I want to test the CPU feature
I don’t want to test the CPU feature
What is the CPU feature?

0 voters

Nobody tested it 100% yet and what all of that means. Too many are quick on the trigger and spread rumors, hype or negativity around - about anything. Humans.

I still want to get your input about the next steps regarding this. Of course, once you downloaded and tested the Experimental branch

If it’s me, Alpha 10.6 does not require a full wipe and the CPU feature is off for now.
The CPU Extension devices are available and you can put them on your ships but they do not affect anything. They will count as Ultra Epic OCD category I think but that’s it.

To activate CPU we would require a full wipe which is too early for our season and in general too early for the feature itself. I’m sure there are tons of bugs around about it and nobody is ready with reworking all their blueprints yet. It would be not a wise move to activate it so early in my opinion and first see what the changes over time will bring to CPU numbers and implementation.

The goal would be eventually for HWS 11 to turn CPU on. Why?
Because for me the feature should be implemented into the game since the beginning and gives this Singleplayer Sandbox “what should I do today boredom” game a new fresh pace in Multiplayer and especially HWS.
By removing any limits on weapon/turret limits and just let CPU decide what specialization you want to build for your ship makes it not only competitive but always new interesting to challenge your creativity and gameplay.
However, I don’t know if CPU will be fully functional 2 months later - so we have to see!

Another big challenge with CPU would be also the topic Alien (NPC) Core. What happens with the HWS Garage? What happens with the Alien Core in general?
With no change it would mean we enter a new meta where Alien Cores become incredible valuable because they are excluded from the CPU Penality system. So ships can be built with massive of devices and thrusters (within limits). Good or bad? Removing the Alien Core Supporter package (pay to win) yes or no? Reworking all HWS Garage ships yes or no?

Too many big questions in such a short amount of time.
Eleon once again challenge not only players here but especially the owners who have to consider so much to provide a cool experience for hundreds of players…

Note: I do not plan to fiddle around with CPU values in the HWS Config this time!
This would bring up too many workshop incompatibilities and what not.
Either we take Eleons CPU values or not.
Except they REALLY made huge mistakes somewhere we have to fix again.

HWS 11 Roadmap

So let me recap my HWS 11 goals I said already here and there or not:

rework of the HWS Universe. Initially said. Initially planned. But not 100% sure yet because I don’t know how the Solar Systems will work out. Either way, it would require a Universe rework.
CPU Feature… !? …
A lot of new Stargate Missions and Events
HWS Connect v5 Redesign (this time for sure sigh)
New Prototype Campaign - generating more than 30 hours of gameplay
First draft of noticable Story telling on planets, PDA and POIs
Origin locked Factions!? Still not sure about that but if the Story is ready by then this step is sooner or later required. It means your faction can’t have members from other Origins applied.
Further Economy polishes like the announced EB Interest change and more
Rethinking the role of Diamonds / Carbon Blocks on HWS
Rethinking HWS Factories

Well, I hope you can share your thoughts on many things here. In a constructive way please. I’m already overloaded with so many other things so any drama or so would damage not only you but me - intentionally.
So thanks in advance for your input and even if things got changed in a bad way for you, make sure to create feedback topics in the forum here so I can read them all and try my best to make everyone happy in whatever possible way.

Your HWS Team

Robobot1747 · October 29, 2019, 4:11pm

I like this. I think it would be super cool to allow more specialization for ships rather than a one size fits all assortment of turrets.
But I think that this

would be incompatible with that. If I have infinite CPU can’t I just toss on 100 guns and build a roflpwnmobile than one-shots other CVs or something? Alien cores should have their own (higher?) CPU limits or no CPU limit but a limitation on weapons IMO.

On a tangent, I think it would be cool if the max speed cap didn’t exist but ships had drag even in space (like how EvE Online does their ship speeds). Then we could further specialize into really fast ships with lower firepower for hunting, or low speed but immense firepower for an extended siege. But I suppose that would be an Eleon thing.

Would it be possible to fit multiple shield generators on a ship? That might be cool with a lower shield generator effectiveness, so you could have to decide how much CPU you want to spend on having shields. As it is it seems like there’s little reason not to have a shield generator. I’m not a fan of auto-include devices.

SwissSteel1 · October 29, 2019, 4:13pm

So much to think about.

Re: CPU

Efficiency and tier will be saved in blue print. I recall you stated in discord, you want to use vanilla cpu numbers for devices.

Does this mean, we can save bp in creative using vanilla config file — and for cpu purposes, the vessel will behave the same when spawned into hws?

Regarding vote, I definately prefer to wait till season 11 for cpu on hws. Will give some time for cpu to be better balanced before it’s live on hws.

Dr.Dark · October 29, 2019, 4:15pm

I’m not sure this is a good idea.
From my experience Origins are a bit like difficulty level.
Thinking like this Federation would be easy, Freelancer normal, and Pirate hard.
I’m guessing you’ve also thought like this because of the fact that Pirate gains more RP total, but it’s harder to get.
By seperating all origins like that newbies and veterans will most likely not group up so much anymore, and that’d mean newbies have a harder time in PvP for example.

But not just PvP, also PvE.
Many newbies learn a lot from veterans.

RexXxuS · October 29, 2019, 4:15pm

Yes… will add this in the announcement too I guess.

I do not plan to fiddle around with CPU values in the HWS Config this time!
This would bring up too many workshop incompatibilities and what not.

Either we take Eleons CPU values or not.
Except they REALLY made huge mistakes somewhere we have to fix again.

Politary · October 29, 2019, 4:16pm

In it’s current state, every pvp build, excluding micro ships that gained bad reputation, will not be CPU compatible. Most of them will never work even after heavy modifications. HWS config is balanced around current class size damage measurement and most likely won’t work as good as it used to without fundamental changes. The question is - is it worth it? The game just received vital fixes for performance, such as desync fix. Server just received much needed changes in config to balance pvp combat. Mostly stable game will turn into a mess once again.

Rethinking the role of Diamonds / Carbon Blocks on HWS

I think in terms of gameplay balance, carbon blocks are perfectly fine. They have some uses and are not useless or overpowered. But in terms of cost to effectiveness they are definitely too expensive compared to normal blocks. I think they should be made to be alternative to normal blocks, not as elite OP block everyone needs to farm to compete in pvp. It can be done by removing diamond from cost and increasing carbon substrate cost. Diamond can be a commodity without special features.

RexXxuS · October 29, 2019, 4:18pm

I know this can be good and bad.

As you said, right now it is very user friendly and easy mode left and right - not even talking about alt account RP farming freedom…

But like in Borderlands 3 or any other decent game: you pick a difficulty level and stick with it.

As I said: if our story is “ready” this would be required sooner or later to bring immersion into the whole HWS system.

The Discord “choose” your Origin was a little hint…

SwissSteel1 · October 29, 2019, 5:29pm

Followup question:

T3 and T4 have to be looted in vanilla game. I am ‘assuming’ ships can be built in creative with these tiers and saved in bp’s.

Do you plan to allow bp’s built using T3 or 4 to be spawned on HWS, or will these have to be found in loot and added after spawn?

Shadace · October 29, 2019, 6:31pm

Great news Rexxxus!

Alot of interesting changes, and I will try to give my feedback and ideas to all points that are relevant ( but there are just too many to cover all)

CPU

I like the idea to remove the turret limit, and also the proposed idea of multiple shields with a CPU cost.

However this things are really really hard to balance.

That’s why I would suggest a small test server with your config and enabled CPUs, and 1 PvP space, 1 PvP planet where trusted people (no trolls) can test out this changes and give you feedback regarding balancing. This will take a while, but there are 1.5 months left till end of season so this should be enough.

A possibility would be to make a weekly review, where you implement the suggested config changes and they are retested again by the community.

Regarding NPC cores: I would let them have an increased CPU limit that cannot be further extended.

Why? To make the garage ships still usable. (Or allow extensions, and add them to all garage ships as a quick fix, not for new ones, but for the existing)

NPC cores have another advantage - you need less fuel tanks, and thus less CPU. In addition you have less weight, so less thrusters, so less CPU again. This needs to be taken into account.
Carbon blocks will become viable again even with their current stats due to the same reason - less weight -> less generators, thrusters -> less CPU.

So I don’t think you should make them stronger again, as the CPU will do that indirectly for you. And I believe the impact will be high (a combat SV with carbon has f.e. 60k CPU, while a steel one has 80k+) this is a major improvement.

I like the idea of the decreasing BR, but you need to take into account the increased difficulty - but I think this can be tested “live” in HWS directly. Just don’t make it shrink too fast at first, and also don’t forget the bridge - it should not be too far away from the pyramid.
diamonds - I see so many other uses for them besides carbon. I mean if the CPU impact on carbon is as I expect, it will make them worthwhile again.

But apart from that, you could use them f.e. for the CPU extensions (make those craftable) - this would help those traders who bought tons of them and now fear for loosing all money. Maybe also make Epic armors repairable (after 7 repairs) with diamonds?(if that’s possible)

But this are just ideas not fully thought through regarding balancing - just ideas to take into account.

I like the idea of having a story
I have mixed feelings regarding origins and origin locks - I would maybe not lock factions, but instead add more areas/missions specific to factions. This is quite the opposite of what you want, but with the same result - more role playing.

It will encourage people of different origins to play together, but everyone will have his role in the faction.

Israel_T-C · October 29, 2019, 11:43pm

I’m looking to test it out first before i post my opinions about the new update. But on the subject of carbon blocks it looks balanced now except that i don’t think carbon blocks should be dependent on a daily loot to construct them. Also, i don’t think diamonds are needed to make carbon blocks in real life so i’m not sure why their being restricted by diamonds. I pretty much agree with @Politary when it comes to carbon blocks. I think diamonds should be removed as something that is needed to make carbon blocks and when the this is done the cost in on carbon substrate can go up as Poly mentioned above.

On the subject of alien cores why not ask Eleon to make the same tier system for alien cores as they did to the regular cores? I mean we have time. If this is not done yet then alien cores will have to be removed because if its not updated like the rest of the cores its going to brake the game.

By the way here is the latest info on the new update. Looks interesting. I kind of like it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWr8Yuuj_OU I will try it out myself soon.

MonsterIce · October 30, 2019, 2:28am

I really like the event manager 2.0 idea!!! Awesome!!!

I agree to wait on CPU for more testing.

I know in creative there is normal core, alien core, and admin core. Is there a way to have different CPU values for all of them? Or even get eleon to put more core types in the game for different cpu values for different class ships? Epic and ultra epic alien cores?

Not sure on locked faction origin, could be cool. Willing to try it.

As for carbon, It changes so much it’s hard to keep track. I do wish it had an intermediate, like substrate, diamond dust. That would make ship repairs and such much better. 1 diamond for one missing block, ouch! And oops, many times already.

Everything you are doing I think is great! Keep it up. And i hope this helps.

Dr.Dark · October 30, 2019, 5:29am

Comparing empyrion to reallife is never a good idea. Empyrion is in no way realistic, and if you want it like real life you can go outside.

The reason carbon costs diamonds is because carbon blocks are the strongest block on the server.

RexXxuS · October 30, 2019, 7:13am

Talked with Hummel. This is currently not right.
Unfortunately spanj said openly to abuse this loophole

TargeT · October 30, 2019, 8:06am

CPU will be a big but good change , remember this is alpha stuff so some tweaking and patching must be done , we all have to learn how to build ships and bases again while this game is constantly changing ( improving it’s self ) , I think when you buy EGS you kind of sign up for that .
For now we can build size class 0.1 cv’s that carry the full turrets and weapons load with some epic movement and thrusters on it . The hull , steel armour xeno or carbon decide the final size class at this time in EGS . Building ships is not challenging when considering speed and firepower , just smack it on there . I hope CPU will balance things out so a class one can be fast but then has no CPU left for weapons or shield . And yes 10.5 to 10.6 will destroy 99% of all bp’s we ever made , i am willing to make that sacrifice for a more challenging and fun game .
The NPC core should really not ever be in a player’s ship , maybe only in a base . The NPC core takes away the need to survive by mining your stuff , bit weird in a survival game to me .

The changes to the event’s sound good to me , reasons to try it again some day .
And a big thanks to @RexXxuS for giving my event bp a place in this all .
I hope you all enjoy it and have a GG on it .

SwissSteel1 · October 30, 2019, 9:17am

Vampire meet stake.

Have been concerned about games future for at least 2 years. Nothing positive to see here (with initial numbers in cpu introduction & eleon’s response to concerns.).

Pessimistic? Yes, for good reasons.

Need t4 just to use my well under class 1, utility cv. And that is not even mentioning the questions about garage ships, etc. Rex already raised.

Paxxo1985 · October 30, 2019, 9:49am

TargeT · October 30, 2019, 11:36am

No offence but , your cleverly thought out system will restrict creativity in building way more as the CPU config Eleon is putting in 10.6 . I know it’s far from balanced or perfection , i just took a Xenu patrol vessel witch i already made player usable long before shields where brought in to the game . To make it work i needed to replace the T2 RCS’s for T1’s and place all CPU upgrades up to T4 . I was amazed by the speed this CV could do , 150 max for a cv , i like it . I also did try to make a size class 5 CV work on the CPU config , someone payed 10 mil. for it so i thought it was worth a try to save it for 10.6 - 11.0 . I had to remove all T2 RCS’s again, but worse all thrusters larger as M ( two blocks big ones ) had to go to . Equipment , weapons , warp , shield , hull and generators do not make mush change in CPU usage as Thrusters or RCS’s do . It makes L , XL and T2 rcs useless . After all i got it to fly tanky like a big size class 7 should do , not a size class 5 . Some tweaking needs to be done there i think because this is no good . I hope it will be updated soon .

CPU will give the freedom to build crazy stuff again , like a cv with 8 artillery turrets that moves like a snail , hell ! put as many turrets on your base as your CPU allows to , that is the freedom it will bring if done the right way .

HoboTruth · October 30, 2019, 1:09pm

I might have a solution for the alien core/garage ship situation… Make alien cores provide unlimited CPU, that way any pre-CPU design will still work if alien cored, garage ships stay viable. Vessels that are player cored will obviously still have to abide by CPU limits/tier system( which definitely needs values increased). Alien cores stay highly valuable. Class limits and server weapon limits will still provide restriction for this being overpowered.
It is alien tech after all right?
And with that said, I DO think alien cores should be removed from the supporter packages if its more than a one time thing.

Chaotic · October 30, 2019, 1:26pm

After about an hour of moderate testing with current, past, and captured builds, I have only found one build that was even remotely close to CPU limitations without serious rebuilding. All CV’s that I have looked at will have to be rebuilt from scratch, if not entirely scrapped.

The build that was do-able? A micro that plagued the server in season 10. Screenshot here:

@Spacedooode don’t hate me for posting this

Testing shows that with a tier 1 CPU on a CV, you can have 3 RCS. Nothing else.
1 XL Thruster requires a tier 3 CPU. I mean hell, something like a T2 Generator costs 62.5K CPU, so that would fry an SV (being a garage ship) built with them, being that the current maximum is 48K.

NPC Cores having no CPU requirement, but still holding the HWS Server limits that are currently in place, would assist in making this transition better, meanwhile increasing value on one of the most sought after devices in the game.

Along with helping those like me, who enjoy their “Mega Bases” built for mass production. Currently, a bases max loadout is 1.2 Million CPU, and one of my “lighter” production bases is 2.9 Million.

Paxxo1985 · October 30, 2019, 1:37pm

At least need to be tweaked by a lot increase cpu numbers in millions. not thousands like now.

There is another BIG problem. You can have 8 artillery but no blocks since blocks takes away cpu