So pretty much the CV I just worked on for a couple days, keeping in mind and making sure it stayed under 500 (at 342), is now useless to travel to pvp space, where as a trader I need to risk traveling to for mining? It is very soon to ask players to throw away their hard work at keeping within your limits… I didn’t even use much glass for this build, not sure what my multi tool is going to have to work with.
O@RexXxuS
I understand the situation the server is in and that changes need to be made. I also unserstand the server has costs therefore a balance needs to be achieved to keep maximum members equaling maximum donations (not for greed but to keep server alive. We cannot expect these guys to pay for us to play) donators come in every faction. Pve pvp. Rp. Etc. my etire faction of 6 members are all donators(this should not impact anything but i wanted to express that in hopes others donate too) and seeing a rule put on PVP but not on PVE feels sligtly discriminatory. People should be able to choose if they want to pve or pvp. I have nothing againt pve. I just feel the rules should apply to both sides. If you want us to have 50 device cv for planet. Then i accept that. But i expect that to be on every planet pvp or pve. You say the limit is partially due to realism motherships = space. Ok. I accept that. Then why wont pve have a limit. Do they not have a similar ship?
This is your “baby” and like any parent your doing what you feel is gonna keep her healthy and allow her to grow. I respect this. And the community needs to stop the hate and respect that as well. On the flipside you cant like one child(pve) more than another(pvp)
As a community if we want this server to continue we only have a few options. Donate more for a beefier server(which from my understanding is already a beast making this option unrealistic) or experiment with this new ruleset. But ruleset needs to be equal for it to be accepted. Not to mention pve seems to be more popular on this server than pvp so this ruleset definitely needs to be put in place for pve as well.
I think another issue maybe is dead ships. I know for one I have like 10 half destroyed SVs and a few CVs i never use. I am sure this is using some server energy. Maybe a rule be put in place that these ships have to change systems every so many days. Making it tedious to keep useless ships. Trimming some fat off the server.
I am going to delete any ship im no longer using. Theres only a few but if everyone chips in. A small change many times may make an impact.
Maybe offer an auto salvage function. Drive cv to salvage yard. Get 30% of resources back. Might motivate some people
Thanks
/rant off
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Thank you @thispolak for a good post in this quite out-of-control topic.
To make one thing clear: I am not a fan of restrictions at all. If this was me I would like to have free options of spawning and playing but really: we can’t. At the moment we are on a difficult point to wait for the 4.0 (whenever it comes) or wiping to kill all lagg problems (maybe). But who knows if we need to wipe for the 4.0 again … after only 2 weeks maybe. That would piss a lot of people off.
So my advice to you all: let’s try it out and don’t feel it is like set to stone.
I don’t want to discimitate pve / pvp guys, it is just that PvP with its battles causing a lot of laggs, bugs and problems. PvE is just that a ship get lost which can be brought back. PvP isn’t really trackable.
So that is the difference. I would just recommend that you let your stuff like it is now on PvE and try the new device limit in PvP. If everyone follow this rule it should be equal but with less laggs.
It is not about donation or the server. Both server are a beast and can handle 100+ people with no problem. It began with the 3.3 patch + 4 week server run time. Right now it is a kind of 4 week full wipe period. We are on the limit. 1 backup of the server is 8,5GB big just for your information…
I mean if this is like a community decision we have two options:
- we full wipe very soon, don’t wait for 4.0.
- we wait for 4.0 and try different hotfixes out till 4.0 comes out
Both are combined with a lot stressful work for me since I am still building the new universe and jascha is for 3 weeks away (the 4.0 universe only works best if jascha codes some new features).
A kind of repair station / salvage yard is an old idea of mine but technically very difficult. Maybe a bit later.
RexXxuS
I like the salvage yard idea, I have a few ships from people on my planet that haven’t played in a few weeks, and they are just sitting there clogging up the server… I will try to muli-tool them this weekend, if we all pitch in like @thispolak suggested, it may help! I rarely go into PVP space to mine, I avoid it if possible, but I do from time to time, so I’ll try to get my 342 devices down to 300 somehow… 
I just don’t know other than decorations what I can delete, It’s pretty bare bones for the most part already, I’ll find a list somewhere I’m sure
Only thing I want to say here is that when I provide feedback I really try to see from a view that is best for everyone. I might not always achive that but I do try to consider everyone and if I get things wrong I don’t fight my points because I belive in respecting what others have to say.
I’m sick of reading the same people just post negative when you say anything about a change as it doesn’t suit their frickin way they play…who cares IT’S NOT ABOUT JUST YOU.
Put op back on. Same Ppl kicked off. Took it off.
Restrict device. Same Ppl kick off. Retract statement.
I get your interest rex is trying to make a great sever for as many ppl as you can…working what what you can with the game cos it’s not in a good way atm…but seriously bud plz stop listening to the same ppl who are just here to moan at any and every change doesn’t fit thier play needs. It’s your server. You care. You might not get it right all the time but don’t allow ppl to talk you out by threatening ‘I’ll leave’ I’d say OK and call thier bluff…
Trust in your thoughts from feedback and not the same ppl that are just here to start a storm most of the time. Ignore them and do a poll or something to see the outcome of what most people…not a few bitter ppl are.
Keep up the good work
BUT NOT bcs we “kicked off”, but bcs we were right!
and stop always saying that this is the best server bla bla. i never said there is a better one or that i dont like the server or the admins. they still make some IMO wrong decisions, and it’s in my nature to shout out if i feel something wrong is going on. same like you can’t stop accusing “us” for beeing disrespectful or egoistic or what ever… you are like vegans they also attack meat eater personally just because they eat meat…one more insult in my direction and i will fire back
I found it hard to swallow initially to be honest @zappe21, mostly because last week I made a CV from scratch for this server, specifically to make sure I was under 500, only to find out today I have to do it all over again or strip down I don’t know what yet… I’m over by 42 devices. For me it is more about the effort I put into creating something specifically for this server. I’m a trader and rarely go to a pvp planet, but at times we have to for mining, as resources are harder to find in pve areas. I like the idea on here about all of us looking for ships not in use and getting rid of the dead weight, so I’ll be doing both multi tooling ships left around my base and trying to find things to strip down on my ship this weekend. I don’t know the code well enough to make suggestions for performance, but I sincerely hope we won’t have to strip down yet again after this, before the next wipe.
As I said in the disclaimer it will be just warnings for now. No big dramas.
This is just an important test for me if the thesis is correct that one playfield influence other ones. So if playfield A is lagging if it is also lagging in playfield B.
There are some proofs that this is not the case but since we are on a very edge in terms of player count and server runtime without full wipe it could be…
So see it as a little challenge to design new 300er ships for PvP and leave your rest behind in PvE.
The 50 devices / no CVs on planet is still a gameplay I would like to see in the future. I like the idea of strategy / tactic to leave some behind by the mothership and don’t go all-in for a raid. Also building better SVs and not the 0815 CV + HV death-lagg-combi.
sure, I’m ok with feedback / criticize but in a good way and with alternatives. Just saying that OP or other things are shit would not make them better in the future.
90% of your reply is just talking crap. When did I say egotistical or disrespectful…you just read what you wanted and made some poor attempt at a response.
Best sever bla bla…it is but when did I say that? I’m not going to bite to a child like response.
Your then perfect example of Its all about pvp and the way i play…me me me.
I’ll just stop posting bored of the lame responses from ppl like you.
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so ure not attacking me personally?
The original post was not directed at you owl just a generic fact that more or less any time a change is announced the same old people never see any side but their own and just get straight down the neck of of admin.
Never positives just negatives. The idea you took this as an attack on you just sums up so much of what I’m trying to say.
Gets so old seeing same old boring posts by the same old ppl throwing their toys out the pram because the admin haven’t sat down with them one on one and explained the changes, as if they need to justify?
If I was attacking you personally I would of said so in the first post not beat around the bush. The second post is a reply to taking upon yourself that I’ve taken to time to have a dig at you…sorry but who are you?
Have a look through past posts from admin and look at majority of negative posts…sure you will see the same names. Nothing more to say on this.
perhaps what the server needs is a purging :-). I say push this change through completely. Those who are truly loyal to the server and can see past their own selfish desires will stay. Those who only seek to serve themselves will leave. I say good, get rid of them, the server will be better without them. There will be plenty more new players to replace them.
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Come one guys this has to be tried. Its not end of world, consider it a test. Its not like this can never change, its final. It can be changed again if that wont work so dont be ladies.
And Thran and Owny and similar…how the hell you can be so scared with all you know about the game. If noone, i would expect you two to adapt, to show your skills.
I feel the same as Zapp, i stoped to play because it simply was unplayable. Why would i watch some slideshow when all other games i play runs fine at high details.
So its finaly here, finaly we can try this new limit and see if that will work, if there is a way how to play this game and not be only frustrated.
Good job Rexx, dont worry about hate. Its necessary step to do, smaller structures could work better. Also it can be valuable feedback for damn devs if nothing else.
Btw this will bring more hate but now when im not playing only collecting autominers i see how much resources i get from it, ppl with lvl 10 autominers simply can build huge. I have about 500k of everything, with 3,5m in credits and another nearly 3mil in raw gold and last time i was mining was in HWS 1.0.
If we are talking about roots, it wasnt like this in “roots” time. We all got too rich which allows us to build huge.
Possible work around to help all stay happy. Keep orbits for all areas pve so pvp-ers can have their cv’s and make the planets in their areas pvp with only sv’s/hv’s allowed to engage in pvp. Pve can do same keep cv’s in space and sv’s/hv’s on surface. Not an end-all but seems to satify desire for pvp to keep their cv safely, and also makes pve adaopt to same rules as pvp.
I must say i can’t wait now to try after this :
SWP came on ETN 1 time and we defeated them even it was laggy as hell with 2 of their CV+HV, then some hours later, they came back with this beautiful lagging CV, i tried 1V3, then i died with my SV and saw this server message more than 500 devices :
I could have tried again with some SV but i don’t know my will to fight dissapear the moment i saw this message, not respecting the rule, so i just quit and say have fun :D, i guess my base will be wiped by tomorrow morning, i’d rather fight with ppl respecting the restrictions and rules ^^ so gogogo Rex let’s fight with SV only on planets :D, even if, like i told you tonight, i’m sure we will see some 50 devices / massive blocks CV with a lot of HV on it and it will still lag as hell 
I dont know if its a good idea to implement the new rules as long as the structure commander still doesnt work properly…
Sorry for the german screenshot but you can see that there are actually 700 devices in the base (here called “Anzahl Objekte”).
I dont know why the structure commander counts 997 devices, the base is on 700 devices since the last change of the rules.
Hi Rex,
First off this is a great place to play the game. Keep up the good work.
If i understand correctly the goal here is to reduce buildup in a playfield that will cause lagging and glitches.
I think you have have some other tools that would be more beneficial and more easily managed.
Like was mentioned in another post derelict ships is a real problem. I suggest setting the despawn timer to 48 hours of non-use on all ships. so those people who spawn many ships without need have to work at keeping the used car lot they built.
Also have you considered reducing base size / quantity on PVE? also using the despawn timer on those as well.
maybe set to a week or something.
I know there are several ships near my base on destiny that haven’t moved in days…
The idea that CV’s be space only is interesting. but I am concerned that this will move the lag to orbit rather than reduce planet lag.
From what i have read so far it looks like people do not understand the idea of an "emergency cv"
Experienced players will probably be prepared this way already…
I learned that the hard way and have one ready myself now.
something else to consider…it would probably have to be a script change somewhere.
instead of ships despawning in a pve field have them change to public upon a set time with no use.
could do this with bases as well… allowing others to salvage or use them.
as for using pve planets as a supply point it makes sense but they do get heavily populated quickly.
maybe reduce the structure limit on a pve planet? so that people cannot all build on one planet?
I have tested and found I could theoretically build a 5k-7k block ship with 50 devices on it and it would be usable.
So what creates more lag the devices or the blocks?
Long Life and Good Health!
Allacron
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Yeah… I try to deep into jaschas code about it but it is really hard at the beginning. Can’t promise to fix it…
The only thing was the tool does is to fetch the informations from the game - so you see, the game is bugged, not our tool. Sorry.
Thanks Allacron for your feedback.
With despawn timer you mean decay time or wipe time? Little reminder:
DecayTime: 3 # Time after which player-built structures without core or less than 10 blocks get removed when not visited
WipeTime: 360 # Time after which any player-built structures get removed when not visited (0 = disabled)
We set the wipe time once at 7 days and suddenly a lot of ship got wiped. Technically this is great and shows that a lot of stuff is really not needed. But some people were on vacation or did a pause and that was not so cool. So we set it back to 15 days again. But that is definitely an option to tweak there.
But like you say I can’t set different despawn timer on different playfields or types 
We have already a 2 base on all PvE limit.
Devices are the problem, not the blocks. The blueprint class restriction is handled by the devices too. Especially lights, thrusters and shooting turrets.
ok so I was thinking of…
WipeTime: 360 # Time after which any player-built structures get removed when not visited.
By what you said, 7 days may be too short. maybe 10 days?
Those people that are leaving for longer than that should make arrangements or accept the loss.
Until the game is much stronger there is no making everyone happy.
DecayTime: 3 # Time after which player-built structures without core or less than 10 blocks get removed when not visited.
I think should be 12 hour or less. people drop a starter block to claim space and then leave it. it should be VERY temporary. This also removes the marker for deconstructed / destroyed ship ships.
On structures: I was thinking playfield total not player/faction total. on pve bring that number of structures down to less than 100. The thinking here is that the limit will force the population to spread out more and drive them to other planets.
Starter planets will need to be higher…But the rest of PVE should be limited.
AS a guidance you could say: max number of pve structures should not be more than 3 or 4 times max player number and distributed among all non-wipe PVE.
Example :Server limit is 100 players, total structures (x4) 400 for all PVE then divide among the playfields. Total PVE non wipe playfield equals 8. 400/8=50 each playfield will have no more than 50 structure.
This forces distribution and limits over growth at the same time. will require some players to adjust… but I think you will gain a lot of stability. this will probably need to be modified to offset versus planet or space. but I think the plan would work.
Also as a reference to tool. I was speaking in general term, not about a single thing. I understand the bugs are in the game.
Last on the device limit:
The bare minimum of a usable cv is about 27 devices. I think 100 devices is a more reasonable planet limit. then a CV with a garden could be built that could land and act as a mobile base.
Each plant being a device makes really makes farming costly. at 100 devices people would have to choose between gardens or guns. both would not be enough of either.
Play on!
Allacron
Maybe better, yeah. We will play around with this number in the future.
Ehm, the 3 is meant in hours. So it is 3 hours at the moment. You think it’s too short or long?
That is a tricky point. To limit it game-wise and best-wise we can only set this globally:
MaxStructures: 200 # Max number of structures per playfield (limit = 255, reduce on performance problems)
But we can’t limit this per playfield. Well only with our tool like we did already.
But the thing is: on the one hand a lot of structures on one planet are bad for performance but spreading people out due that is bad for the performance either.
The first thing is bad for players gaming experience, the second is bad for the server. The more playfields are open at the same time the more CPU / RAM is needed. We have a beast machine so it is more likely ok. But we had 31 open playfields at the same time which even brought our machine to 99% CPU. That is a general bottleneck of the game.
Also the reason why we set 230 cores and now 200 cores now.
It is a good idea to implement a kind of dynamic ruleset for the server but I think a bad experience for the players Multitool 
Like you said:
So I trash crafted 3 awesome max. 50er CVs xD
HWS-50-T1.zip (45.3 KB)
HWS-50-T2.zip (47.3 KB)
HWS-50-T3.zip (49.5 KB)
The last ship has everything you need even for a mobile base. You are better builder and have more creativity in this but 50 is good enough for a planet I think. Max 70 later but let’s test 50 first.
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