New Blueprint Class Formula + Emp Class Calculator update

If you replace the pyramids with squares it will be even higher class than if you just left the pyramids.

Pyramids have lower poly count than full blocks. This means if you use full blocks it will be an even higher class

It isn’t fixed. The beast at the top, perfect example. I have been lag shot in it fighting TCH on EU. Only the core was hit, other blocks next to it %100 health.

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The backface culling is important, but impossible to unify into a single class size number, if it is dependant on where it is viewed from. As for melding all blocks into only exterior, maybe, if there were a function to force all interior blocks to mesh, etc. But all one HP, that would eliminate the dynamic damage that empyrion has. Picture it this way, if you have two sausage roll ships, one with the core 1 block from the front, and the other with it dead center, Obviously the first should be worse in combat. But without dynamic damage and losing blocks individually, they are identical. People can just throw a big cube of armor in some empty space, and it counts as armor from any direction. Not really great for immersion, or gameplay.

But that’s what we are saying, there should be more than just device, light, triangles in the class calculation there should be back face cull/White space as well.

Yea true, wouldn’t want to sacrifice the games uniqueness for performance.

Ok guys,
hold on one second. Maybe not fair to not giving you the full information but hey, training your typing skills I guess.
Now one thing I didn’t know by just coding my ECC tool is:

with 6.6 they are using now REAL Triangles. Before it was THEORY Triangles.

Let me show you what that means:

Both buildings are 9x9x9.
The cube one however have 108 Tris. The Pyramide one 162 Tris.
So with “real” it is meant how many faces are actually in the world. Since the inner cubes of the big cube are “merged” they are not calculated here.

After looking around here and there this also means that SOME blueprints are actually CHEAPER now than before.

Or let me say it differently: if you still have many “theory” triangles in your blueprints this is of course expensive now.

Last but not least two things coming now into play:

  1. since lag shots are fixed (!!!) you should get rid of your power-bank-pyramid building skills. >> If lagshots are NOT FIXED I need a savegame where we can reproduce even this scenario for a FIX
  2. global blueprint adjustment to Class 4 was in general for 6.X.X planned but the Class 1 thing is maybe not so good anymore.
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(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)

mk we are all saying the same thing at the same time: This is not a complete fix, or a fix at all for the issue they said they were fixing. Hopefully the unannounced feature here is that only rendered faces count

But to be clear @Kogami back face culling is not whitespacing, it is the process where lookin from INSIDE of the ship block you do not see the exterior blocks, just the faces towards you. Whitespacing is the process of taking that knowledge, and giving a space then another face that WILL be rendered.
For example, if you take 2 walls of straight cubes, seperated by 1 block of space. With backface Culling, only the two sides facing you are rendered. Without, you render all 4 of the 2d sheets of block skin. So technically a block has different amount of rendered triangles based on which way you view it from. But I dont think they can implement that level of detail into a single number. They need to just check faces, and eliminate them from the total triangles if it meshes (solid block to solid block, etc)

Edit:
Rex sprung in with the rest of the info just before I posted. Perhaps irrelevant now, apologies.

Lag shots are not fixed. They happen less often but I have still taken damage on internal components behind 5 layers of whitespaced armor without the armor being destroyed.

Until they are completely fixed it is suicidal not to have at least a few layers of whitespace in a ship. Attempting to punish people for building to circumvent the game’s obvious flaws is only going to cause more people to stop playing.

Edit: Rexxxus, you say you need a save game demonstrating that lag shots are not fixed, what do you mean? Lag shots can only be reproduced on a large population Pvp server, hence why you originally created your test server.

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Yes I know they are different but they are both using processes to remove the amount of rendering needed, less waste and from what Rex just posted it seems Eleon did it right so yay! seems class 3 might be more than enough if we build properly.

Like I said before, Let’s all just keep calm and just let them work their magic.

Try first without the holes and see if it still happens in the new patch, if not then I guess we all go back to protecting the important stuff.

That sentence was the same before the big lag shot got fixed. Thus I was able to create a Singleplayer Savegame.

We need a simple savegame where you have a ship, jump in, fly to turrets and got shot. If you know how the damage travels still through let us know. Only then it can be fixed.
The network lag shouldn’t be a problem because the collision is done by the Client.
Ergo if people claim lag shots are not fixed some collision code is not working 100% correct.

Anyways:
Hater gonna hate? Yes
A lot of cries? Yes

BUT do you have a (realistic) better idea / formula / etc.?

IMHO everyone who is crying now are just lucky that they used theory triangles before which took ALL faces what is crazy. With the real triangles you can build now even smarter and better for performance. (not going in detail how the engine renders faces)

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Not a savegame, but happened on Server during SV competition. The problem is that asking someone to replicate something that happens generally on overloaded servers, or triggered somewhat by latency, on a singleplayer game is the reason the devs never saw the issue when we were seeing it. What we need is something like the hv turret etc benchmark where they can observe the live situation, and have it happen there.

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You probibly took awhile to write all this, which means you didn’t read this post before posting:

But I have a feeling Class 3 will still be fine after patch, which means we get to keep the size of a ships with a good performance increase during combat.

Also Rex’s Calculator as it is now wont be accurate with what we currently see in our blue prints as our new blue prints will show less triangles and only then would we be able to use the new calculator accurately.

Not crying here, or meant to come off that way, apologies if it does, I am only try to add constructive input. If it were to be 7.0 this was happening, with a wipe planned, then I feel like the discussion would be much more relaxed. The issue I have is it all happening with bases/ships all spawned in and in the playfield, then when the patch hits it becomes a rush fix to salvage what we can. I do think this is overall a good change to the game, and welcome it in some ways. Every ship looking like potato mashers and pointy is getting a bit silly, and it would be nice to see more ships looking more appropriate. I am glad this is being addressed

Happening now, this could take a couple days of just cleaning what we have up to keep it in line with the new class restrictions(moving cargo around, recycling ships) as well as designing new ones in order to keep playing on the server.
For SVs and HVs, the class 1 change I say is still fine, but I wouldn’t mind Class 2 aswell.
Bases/CVs however, those are a bigger issue, since many go far beyond what the server allows in its current restrictions going into the new formula. These are much more expensive in general as well.

Lag shots are definitely improved, but not fixed I would say entirely. Improvements have for sure been made to the game in this regard, I can’t point to the exact way it is happening, but I have noticed it in some areas, mostly in CVs.

yes - a while to write and word! Just trying to grasp the words you have kindly reposted! (original post now withdrawn)

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Trying to set a record for amount of withdrawn posts xD

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Next Question is - when will we get a new experimental version, so that we can really assess the impact of these proposed changes?

Instead of crying around i suggest something completely different:

Only authorise class 1 SV, where internal layers are nothing but real cubes (no pyramid, cylinders,spheres, empty spaces…)
Then everybody will fly with tiny fragile ships .
Fights won’t last more than 10 seconds, everyone will be able to lag shot his opponents, SV will be really cheap, servers will have a huge performance imprpvment and fights will be only won because you were the first to aim and shoot with precision and because you know how to dodge.

But i’m sure everyone is afraid of that.