Potential changes to config and maybe ews

As the title above says, we have been playing on the current season for a month now.

This is just a suggestion and an opportunity to discuss balancing and obviously fun for ALL players.

So I’ve been doing a lot of listening and looking into things etc.

Xeno is KING when it comes to cvs , there’s no doubt about it. place a Xeno cv against the next best thing (combat block) and the results are devastating!

I think that combat block should be boosted and maybe Xeno slightly nerfed BUT only slightly

As it stands Xeno has 0 ews modifiers but combat block although having more hit points is like mush in comparison to a Xeno ship.

Now, currently the Xeno block has 1500 hp but immune to modifiers and weighs 1.5 t i think it is,
combat block has 2000 hp but weighs 4 t!

Why not reduce the weight of the combat block to increase manoeuvrability, but at the same time nerf the hit points slightly of xeno.

Xeno will remain the META block however if we look at this from the eyes of a player that has not been around as much its quite hard to get and looking at the market today unrealistically priced very high.

i spoke to @RexXxuS about this and he said to pop it up on the forum so we can all discuss the way we play and what we see every day !

Balancing the game is a part of HWS, Constantly evolving to a server we all enjoy playing on even if eleon throw in curve balls like the flight mechanics and cpu

last thing i will say about balancing the cv aspect of hws is that although my ideas sound a little wacky remember this

cpu usage = %hitpoints per block (armour)

LESS IS MORE! lower hp = bigger ship so for the xeno players it still remains meta but also gotta use more of it to maintain that survivability

please discuss below

2 Likes

Change of weight will impact how current builds perform, so all current builds will neeed to be remade. This will have a lot of negative impact in community, building ships is already time consuming enough. All weight is reverted to vanilla to make ships from different servers/workshop work on HWS too. It was a very good change and it would be a shame to completely revert it.

I do agree though that there is no reason to use anything but xeno. Not because it’s OP, but because everything else is too bad. Combat steel needs a buff in EWS. Something like good resistance to rockets. Currently the only thing CS can tank is cannon shots and lasers or flak.

Maybe make it not vulnerable against rockets but only plasma? X10 modifier to damage is still too much.

2 Likes

i agree. i mean im building my 5th ship this season already and so far with using 0 rcs im using xeno to make it fast but fairly strong. just looking at the perspective of a new player not a seasoned veteran xeno is op . its all about balance and yea weight is a huge factor when it comes to a build. the newer players struggle with xeno block so its an idea to make it last a bit longer and a bit lighter will help them too. ive not even looked at svs yet :joy:

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Changing weights not only means rebuilding it means anything you play with on other servers ro get from the workshop no longer functions the same.

Not been in any CV battles but boosting combat steel blocks in some way seems the obvious fix unless Xeno is causing super long tanky battles.

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lowering weight will improve the way it moves without affecting cpu. so its better for the players who wanna get in to pvp but dont have the xeno they arnt gonna last long

After having lots of CV fights, both big faction battles and pre arranged duels, Xeno doesn’t seem to be OP like carbon was. It gives enough time for CV to survive, just like Capital vessel should feel, without making it unkillable tank. If combat steel was comparable to xeno with some weakness other than weight (Plasma or Artillery, like I proposed eariler), the balance for lower tier blocks will be much better.

Unless making CVs more expensive was intentional, in that way it works as intended.

lowering weight will improve the way it moves without affecting cpu. so its better for the players who wanna get in to pvp but dont have the xeno they arnt gonna last long

I don’t agree that this is a good idea. Balancing turn rate/armor ratio is the hardest part in making a ship now. Changing weight will require for players to completely change their builds once again. Buffing combat steel resistance in config will acomplish the original idea to make pvp more accessible without ruining numerous builds mid season.

2 Likes

Agreeing with @Politary here… Xeno is not the god-tier block like Carbon was… I still lost 10k blocks when I’m getting whooped up on, regardless. Change the meta through EWS changes, and that’s fine. Nobody’s builds get too messed up other than a replaceblocks command in creative.

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Just tweak combat blocks, not weight, but resistances, etc. keeping it high hp n decent against most weapons. Leaving it just below xeno. Xeno isn’t op but is the better choice. Which it should remain as such. It’s end game content! Lol

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I think its fine the way it is, xeno is the superior block right now, and is much more difficult to obtain. There is no easy way to construct your way out of having to do POIs and pick it all by hand, or by purchasing off the market. If you know which POIs are best, its rather easy to obtain.

Just gonna pile onto this as well, but what’s up with Xeno prices through the garage getting sent through the roof? 5K per block is 40% more than market value, which is already heavily inflated in comparison to other seasons.

its a deterrant from players buying and recycling straight away. the prices are way off but a 17m shipmade of xeno was worth around 40m on the market PLUS the npc core

This is the literal definition of OP, but… to each their own.

Xeno needs to be nerfed in weight or be given vulnerabilities. Capital vessels should feel like capital vessels and not be able to make 30g-at-the-nose turns.

2 Likes

Agree on this point, but I think Xeno should be left alone for the time being. The question is how many builds are class 4 or 5 vs. class 1 or 2. The big ships should be slow but even the smaller ships should be sluggish. This is probably outside the scope of HWS however as it is primarily a matter of how physics works in the game. In any case, I think people should qualify the size of CV they are discussing by tonnage at least.

This is the literal definition of OP, but… to each their own.

I’m comparing defense/offense capabilities of ship with xeno and combat steel, not just xeno/cs performance in vacuum. Xeno steel ship feels “right”. Comparable to old pre cpu class 5 ships survivability nobody was complaining about. CS is still too weak for the new CPU system.

Combat time for xeno steel ship is ~10 minutes until it either gets defanged or too damaged to continue a fight. For combat steel it’s ~3 minutes. It’s hard if not impossible to snipe enemy weapons in given time range for CS ship, as long as opponent doesn’t fly in straight line.

If you make CV fights too quick, there will be no time for skilled pilots to make a difference with manual weapons, and CV combat, currently the most skill based combat empyrion has to offer, will turn into mindless autoaim turret fiesta.

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I try to avoid any mid-season changes as good as possible - especially since it’s only 4 weeks into the season so far.
CPU + Flight Controller stuff still needs to be learned.
The Universe is still not fully discovered.

Nevertheless, you are the guys who play PvP on daily basis and know what’s good or not.
By now it’s also no excuse to not check the forum regular for changes or feedback, so I go with a poll this time until upcoming Friday:

You have 3 votes if you want all 3 changes or vote only for one or two things!

  • Change CV Plasma Turret EWS against Combat Steel from Very Effective to Base Damage
  • Change CV Artillery Turret EWS against Combat Steel from Very Effective to Effective
  • Change CV Rocket Turret EWS against Combat Steel from Very Effective to Effective
  • Leave it as is

0 voters

The Combat Steel Blocks and Xeno Blocks have the same stats like Vanilla.
The only difference is that Xeno got the material from plastic applied. That way no bonus damage is done against it from other weapons.

Adjusting EWS has no impact on your blueprints, it will just change the fight outcome in one or the other way.

Checkout the full EWS sheet again and learn what “Very Effective” and “Effective” means:

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build a soild xeno ship and it will set you back tens of millions of credits at the moment. or hours of farming xeno. go to repair it, and you’ll need to sell a kidney.

so its not like everyones going around in pure xeno ships, everyone’s having to balance it out.

Please do not make the horrific mistake of changing the meta half way through the season again. people only just started coming back to the game.
plan for next season sure,
discuss next season sure
but don’t invalidate all the work everyone’s already done in R&D again, people will just wonder off again.

5 Likes

Xeno is all over the universe, spend a couple of hours clearing and stripping poi’s and you are set up.

The “cost” of the blocks really is meaningless, the market sets whatever price it wants but it doesn’t matter when that’s not the only way to get the material.

I realize it isn’t easy or fast, but it is available to everyone.

3 Likes

Changes implemented mid season aren’t good… Look at what happened when David tried to nerf EB interest halfway through the last season. Implement change at the start of the new season, when everybody is sitting in creative working on tweaks to help fix Eleon’s stupidity.

Xeno isn’t hard to obtain. I can spawn in my PvP CV with a few days of farming POI’s in the galaxy. Combat Steel is cheap as hell, especially for those with donor planets (most of the time) All they have to do is place auto miners and reap the rewards. This isn’t turning into an issue of ore gathering and whatnot, because it shouldn’t be. It’s nice having to work to spawn my CV in, work to get the materials to repair it.

Carbon blocks were nothing more than logging in once per day, and they changed meta builds insanely. Xeno is the polar opposite. Yes, you get Xeno substrate in your daily loot and whatnot, but it’s still a grind to spawn a CV.

If you make everything too easy, then where’s the survival aspect of Empyrion?

2 Likes

A much easier fix to the current meta to allow both an advantage for those who grind and a fighting chance for those who can’t is to change combat steel weight from 4ton to either 2ton or 2.5ton, and drop all other blocks down by a similar amount, with exception of xeno which can of course stay at 2tons.

What does everyone think about that?