Haven’t had a chance to play yet, but here is my two cents.
From last season - rail guns need a nerf (or fix) to prevent sniping base turrets from afar.
You should be able to warp out of PvP in say - Homeworld System (not entirely sure what the new map layout is). As newer pvpers need to have SOME chance, as it’s not that hard to knock out a new players warp drive.
Black Hole/Golden Globe should use super gates to warp out. Why? More reward more risk. As always, there should be a PvP “lite” and a PvP “vet” battleground. You should be able to warp in and out of the pvp lite area, and the PvP “vet” area needs a supergate. You never know when someone might only have 15 minutes to log off and go do something important, and if someone is camping the supergate out (which we all know there will be factions/players who do this) you will have to instead fly 70km out just to log off and go about whatever daily life task you need too.
Going into PvP “lite” shouldn’t make you stop and think - “Do I have enough time to play if someone is camping the supergate?”
Now, going into PvP “vet” area should in fact make you stop and think - Am I ready for this? Do I have enough time? Do I have the supplies I need?
PvP is meant to be harsh and have consequences, but vets still have the overwhelming advantage of experience and having PvP builds that newbie factions won’t be able to replicate easily. That is why there always needs to be an area where newbies can ease themselves into PvP.
Camping the supergate out of PvP will hae an affect akin to use explosive blocks to kill people in PvE - it will leave a bad taste in the mouth of new players who are still trying to get used to HWS.
The new map is a little different this season, and there are lots of pvp “lite” zones. Jupidor and Sathon are on rotation as usual, the orbits pvp and are warp drive accessible in and out. Cebo and Walla planets and sectors are pvp full time and warp drive accessible in and out. There is also a pvp moon in lawless sector, which sounds like a great entry point. Any of those 4 sectors can warp to Homeworld. Homeworld is the entry point to Black Hole and Titan. 3 hard pvp sectors that you can warp between, but the only way out is through one of 2 Homeworld supergates. Each hard sector has its own end game content. Homeworld has the lockout event, Black Hole has a restored GG, and Titan gives the entire faction an Rp bonus for holding down a base every 24 hours. I do agree that 1 more entry/exit gate would be a good idea though, maybe in titan space.
I think just allowing warp out of Homeworld, and giving Blackhole the supergate exist is the best way to go.
It’s easy enough to take out a newb’s warp drive, and most vets will or should be going to GG since that is the true “end game content”. If you can’t exit Homeworld to get to Titan though, having a third exit won’t matter at all.
Adding a one way warp out to another system isn’t a bad idea though. That way if someone does warp from Homeworld it’ll be easy to chase. Place a stargate that always works in that system and now you have a legit exit. You still have a good chance to get someone cause you can be shooting them the entire way to that stargate.
I have to agree with Ranz on his thoughts; HWS is meant to be a balance between both PvE and PvP worlds, but most of the chatter is coming from the PvP side. We don’t know what is going to drive PvE or new players into PvP, instead it’s the constant reminder that they could and some have, lost everything venturing into PvP for the first time. I sure as hell wasnt ready for a complete restart after my first foray in PvP, and it can be disheartening to start from scratch.
That’s not to say I condone PvP, hell I enjoy it. But closing off Homeworld to supergates only feels like it will stifle exploration for the new players or PvE players. I do agree that helping a new player is the positive effect that won’t let them feeling helpless after destroying and plundering their battered ships. IMO the supergates for the vets should be centered on GG, Titan, and the other I can’t think of ATM cause I’m too f*cking tired to think and athe damn kids are screaming in the kitchen. God I need another beer…
Cardboard_Jack: “The new map is a little different this season, and there are lots of pvp “lite” zones. Jupidor and Sathon are on rotation as usual, the orbits pvp and are warp drive accessible in and out. Cebo and Walla planets and sectors are pvp full time and warp drive accessible in and out.”
Sure, but there is no way into or our of any of those from PvE space that does not require running the HW gauntlet. HW is the bottleneck for all of PvP. You can’t realistically call any system “PvP lite” if you have to survive the trip through through “PvP vet” to get there. (And you can’t seriously expect newer players to throw away every last ingot they own by living exclusively in PvP.)
As a newish player trying to foray into PvP, I’ll tell you something else that would go a long way towards attracting new PvP players: if vets would actually share useful information instead of guarding it like the tree of forbidden knowledge. I guess I’m used to a different sort of gaming community, but I’ve never played another game where experienced players were so secretive about everything that might give an edge in combat. Then again, I’ve never played another game that was as flawed in both design and execution so that getting good at combat mostly meant learning the game’s many, many bugs and flaws and how to exploit them. And that’s the sort of thing I mean when I say PvP is a cesspool. It’s one thing for veteran players to win because they’ve developed superior skills and combat reflexes, and another for them to want to keep their victims helpless because they don’t know the secret exploits that are the keys to winning.
And one thing I really don’t understand: What’s the point of having class size limitations in GG/Black Hole when players can violate them at will by exploiting holes in the mechanics? Leave a sentry SV there and it’s not too difficult to just warp your Class 7 CV in when someone sets it off and kill them before you get the last warning and your ship is deleted. I also hear that people bring > Class 1 SVs to the planet and just pop back up into orbit when they get close to delete time, then pop back into the atmo with the deletion timer conveniently reset. What’s the point of a rule that’s so easy to get around? All it does is reward cheating. Why not just do what happens when you try to enter a system or planet with the wrong origin or insufficient RP and just not allow the player to warp in at all?
First off I agree 100% regarding the class limitations for GG. If it were up to a vote my option would be to teleport any class 1.51 CV/SV/HV to the furthest point possible into BH orbit. I’m thinking 100+km as soon as entering the atmo. If you are required to use a CL1 vessel and knowingly bring one over class, being that BH is a supergate only orbit, you should spend a fair bit of time traveling back to the supergate with an over-class vessel.
As far as secrets concerning building, it all comes down to trial and error. You have to understand, and not meaning any offense to what comes next. We can’t just give you our designs. I have tested a ridiculous amount of SVs, CVs, HVs and even BAs against an AI or other dedicated faction members. I have had so many incremental builds while testing that the end of testing looks nothing like the original (Ranz remembers the double ring). When it comes to building I don’t have any cheats. We all have to abide by the same rules that @RexXxuS has defined, and are subject to the same inspections and punished according if any rule is broken. IE no floating turrets, everything must be attached to vessel, guns not allowed to clip through blocks.
As I have said in many different posts, a great PvP ship design is far more valuable than gold. If someone wants to give pointers then ask, some may be willing to point out your flaws or even post-fighting can give you pointers.
HW is not the bottleneck though, your miss reading the map. HW is the bottleneck for Black Hole and Titan. Jupidor/Sathon attach to Cebo/Walla (PVP) by warp jump north and to Atlantis/Binomi (PVE) by warp jump south.
Both sides go ECC<>PVE<>Pvpve rotation<>PVP>HW PVP on the map. HW is not required.
Jack, my apologies to Rexxxus on that one, I don’t know how I missed it - I warp through Atlantis just about every day.
TacoIsland, I’m certainly not asking for blueprints. It would just be nice if there were more resources in the Guide or forums. There’s tons of info on everything in the PvE aspect of the game, but tips for PvP seem to boil down to nothing more detailed or useful than “make your bases 30k+ out in space and don’t use Workshop ships” without even the slightest hints as to what’s wrong with the Workshop ships or even the most vague description of what sort of ships they should be using.
I wouldn’t say ‘exploits’ errrm more like successful builds and so on, that’s the most important thing, but it can depend on which PVP faction you’re fighting, in GMC/PKA we punish anyone who is exploiting. But you’re right that the learning curve is SO STEEP on Empyrion/HWS that Vets would actually do a big favour in giving some info out about them and how they work, as well as some starter PVP designs (which we did last season) for people.
Some PVP factions are honourable and will actually help you once they have killed you, normally you’d end up with a net profit from them giving you more than you initially had, it’s just the thrill of the chase. Whereas I looked down on those who killed noobs without helping them out as ‘wiping’ people, especially new players, is a pretty lame thing to do.
Just look out for RED/OPG, the big ‘pirate’ factions, they don’t show that much in the way of mercy, if you see 'em it’s best to run! That isn’t me trash-talking them, it’s simply true from several years experience.
I am loving the new system as well, and agree that weapon ranges could use a little tweaking.
The entire outside ring of the universe is open to fairly low risk pvp with the ability to warp away for those just starting to get into fighting. Besides that we have someplace that is far more high stakes/rewards for those willing to take a risk.
I think the gate mechanic is hitting a fairly good balance if the goal is to leave something for everyone.
I’m glad I’m not the only one to think that camping is a cancer in this type of video game. In my opinion the idea of the supergates is excellent to avoid the “any time escapes” that make PvP almost useless.
But camping on the supergate is not PvP! it’s like wasting time building a ship just for bet it in a “flip a coin”, if head you can have the privilege of trying to fight, otherwise you just lose, even before the playfield is loaded. this is not PvP.
You don’t need to use Supergates unless you want to go to Black Hole. Warps are safe but inconvenient, Supergates are fast and well placed but include extra risk. If you look at the map the only time you absolutely must use a Supergate in PVP is when you go from Black Hole to Homeworld(Unless I am missing something).
