Could always leave the majority of aspects to supergates, however instead of just increase the effective range of using the supergates being effective. Add in a couple more with increased ranges would require many more players from a faction to cover the distance to block usage of the supergates, allowing them to camp til boredom delight if they feel up for it. Adding in another supergates would double the lack of fun.
As for the SV ranges I can’t comment on them yet, but I would prefer the closer ranges instead of sniping as a distance. It makes more sense that fixed assets have much greater range than mobile assets when it comes to attacking a base.
Some other changes are too difficult to comprehend though. Such as Zirax snipers taking 15mm to the face for a minute straight and then finally die. NPCs need to be revisited when it comes to taking on some of these POIs.
Honestly that’s what it feels like when I’m firing missiles at someone. I’m expecting a big boom followed by the other pilot scrambling to get his ship to stay in the air. Instead it’s like “Oh, did you just shoot me?”
Making it impossible to leave PvP space except by one single SG, then allowing people to mass camp that SG, then making it so they can’t leave even if they survive running the camper gauntlet, is a horrible, horrible, horrible, frankly idiotic idea.
Saying “people who try PvP know what they’re getting into” is fine. Until they try it, find out what a cesspool it is, and decide never to try it again, or try a different server, or a different game. Then the usual suspects sit around asking why no one wants to try PvP.
Most of what’s wrong with PvP is the game’s fault, not the servers, but that’s no excuse for making things even worse. And turning any foray into PvP areas without superior numbers, ships, and experience into a suicide run by removing even the theoretical possibility of escape when jumped by 3 or 4 enemies is only making it worse. All you’re doing is insuring that no one wants to try it.
What you’ve done is listen to complaints by the very people who make it so no new players want to try the PvP cesspool, and made changes that make it even harder for new players to survive, so even fewer people want to try PvP. And then the people who’ve demanded these changes sit on the server every night and whine endlessly on global chat about no one wanting to come to PvP space.
Make it possible for players at a disadvantage to escape PvP space alive, and you give them a lot more incentive to try. Make i impossible for them to get out alive, and you drive them away. It’s that simple. If you really feel you must have your Homeworld deathtrap, at least make it so a ship that’s outnumbered by enemies can SG warp out.
Fun fact: on Eu nobody is camping the supergate
Fun fact 2: I was in na and nobody was camping there too.
Fun fact 3: need to have a lot of time to waste to camp a stargate since nothing will happen for hours or days
Fun fact 4: supergate area is big enoungh to get in and get out without even being spotted
I for one love the new system. Last season it felt like there was no reason to fight, anyone could escape 100% of the time, no risk. Now when I head over to Homeworld Space I check the player list because I might get jumped at the gate. I like that, makes the game exciting. It makes PVP mean something every time.
In terms of camping the gate? Well, there are 2 gates you can use, one of which has an anti-camp defense for CVs and Bases, the other just Anti Base. On top of this you can warp to Black Hole or Titan. So there are still a lot of defensive options to get away. That could mean that you warp to Titan and make/hide in a base, it could be stealthing your ship because PVP is too hot to be in. It could mean you sneak into the far side of the Supergate Zone and still gate out.
I do agree that a Titan gate to Cebo/Walla would be a positive thing (One more escape route, makes a decent travel path) and that weapon damage could be scaled up for faster battles. This season had a rocky start with Eleon releasing before they were ready, but it is shaping up to be my favorite season if the pvp player base ramps up over the next month like it usually does.
Cardboard_Jack: Of course you do. Have fun waiting for all those new players who are never going to show up because you’ve helped make PvP a cesspool with less than zero motivation for any new players to try it.
And Homeworld is still a dead end. One warp out that leads to another dead end. Not too hard for the opponent to guess where you’ve gone. It means once you’re engaged there’s absolutely no way out. That’s nice if you went there intending to duel and find a single opponent (and they don’t bring friends to finish you off if you beat the first), but it sucks donkey balls if you get jumped by 3 or 4 or if you went there to, say, mine the gold that was removed from everywhere else. Why would anyone want to risk it? It negates the whole point of putting scarce resources only in PvP if you make mining them close to suicidal.
I have already had some great PVP with a few new factions, helped them get home and gave them some creds for repairs. Rezzy is a great example, and he keeps coming back for more fights, each time with a better ship. Seen a return of a lot of the new pvp factions from last season too. I have high hopes for the season
To be fair to Rexxxus & co., almost all of what makes PvP close to unplayable is Eleon’s fault, most of the rest is player behavior, and most of the HWS mods seem like a big step in the right direction. But if they’re trying to entice PvErs to try PvP, which is the only reason it makes any sense to remove all the gold from PvE orbits, making it close to impossible to escape back to PvE space if they’re caught at a disadvantage (which they inevitably will be) is the wrong way to go about it.
Haven’t had a chance to play yet, but here is my two cents.
From last season - rail guns need a nerf (or fix) to prevent sniping base turrets from afar.
You should be able to warp out of PvP in say - Homeworld System (not entirely sure what the new map layout is). As newer pvpers need to have SOME chance, as it’s not that hard to knock out a new players warp drive.
Black Hole/Golden Globe should use super gates to warp out. Why? More reward more risk. As always, there should be a PvP “lite” and a PvP “vet” battleground. You should be able to warp in and out of the pvp lite area, and the PvP “vet” area needs a supergate. You never know when someone might only have 15 minutes to log off and go do something important, and if someone is camping the supergate out (which we all know there will be factions/players who do this) you will have to instead fly 70km out just to log off and go about whatever daily life task you need too.
Going into PvP “lite” shouldn’t make you stop and think - “Do I have enough time to play if someone is camping the supergate?”
Now, going into PvP “vet” area should in fact make you stop and think - Am I ready for this? Do I have enough time? Do I have the supplies I need?
PvP is meant to be harsh and have consequences, but vets still have the overwhelming advantage of experience and having PvP builds that newbie factions won’t be able to replicate easily. That is why there always needs to be an area where newbies can ease themselves into PvP.
Camping the supergate out of PvP will hae an affect akin to use explosive blocks to kill people in PvE - it will leave a bad taste in the mouth of new players who are still trying to get used to HWS.
The new map is a little different this season, and there are lots of pvp “lite” zones. Jupidor and Sathon are on rotation as usual, the orbits pvp and are warp drive accessible in and out. Cebo and Walla planets and sectors are pvp full time and warp drive accessible in and out. There is also a pvp moon in lawless sector, which sounds like a great entry point. Any of those 4 sectors can warp to Homeworld. Homeworld is the entry point to Black Hole and Titan. 3 hard pvp sectors that you can warp between, but the only way out is through one of 2 Homeworld supergates. Each hard sector has its own end game content. Homeworld has the lockout event, Black Hole has a restored GG, and Titan gives the entire faction an Rp bonus for holding down a base every 24 hours. I do agree that 1 more entry/exit gate would be a good idea though, maybe in titan space.
I think just allowing warp out of Homeworld, and giving Blackhole the supergate exist is the best way to go.
It’s easy enough to take out a newb’s warp drive, and most vets will or should be going to GG since that is the true “end game content”. If you can’t exit Homeworld to get to Titan though, having a third exit won’t matter at all.
Adding a one way warp out to another system isn’t a bad idea though. That way if someone does warp from Homeworld it’ll be easy to chase. Place a stargate that always works in that system and now you have a legit exit. You still have a good chance to get someone cause you can be shooting them the entire way to that stargate.
I have to agree with Ranz on his thoughts; HWS is meant to be a balance between both PvE and PvP worlds, but most of the chatter is coming from the PvP side. We don’t know what is going to drive PvE or new players into PvP, instead it’s the constant reminder that they could and some have, lost everything venturing into PvP for the first time. I sure as hell wasnt ready for a complete restart after my first foray in PvP, and it can be disheartening to start from scratch.
That’s not to say I condone PvP, hell I enjoy it. But closing off Homeworld to supergates only feels like it will stifle exploration for the new players or PvE players. I do agree that helping a new player is the positive effect that won’t let them feeling helpless after destroying and plundering their battered ships. IMO the supergates for the vets should be centered on GG, Titan, and the other I can’t think of ATM cause I’m too f*cking tired to think and athe damn kids are screaming in the kitchen. God I need another beer…
Cardboard_Jack: “The new map is a little different this season, and there are lots of pvp “lite” zones. Jupidor and Sathon are on rotation as usual, the orbits pvp and are warp drive accessible in and out. Cebo and Walla planets and sectors are pvp full time and warp drive accessible in and out.”
Sure, but there is no way into or our of any of those from PvE space that does not require running the HW gauntlet. HW is the bottleneck for all of PvP. You can’t realistically call any system “PvP lite” if you have to survive the trip through through “PvP vet” to get there. (And you can’t seriously expect newer players to throw away every last ingot they own by living exclusively in PvP.)
As a newish player trying to foray into PvP, I’ll tell you something else that would go a long way towards attracting new PvP players: if vets would actually share useful information instead of guarding it like the tree of forbidden knowledge. I guess I’m used to a different sort of gaming community, but I’ve never played another game where experienced players were so secretive about everything that might give an edge in combat. Then again, I’ve never played another game that was as flawed in both design and execution so that getting good at combat mostly meant learning the game’s many, many bugs and flaws and how to exploit them. And that’s the sort of thing I mean when I say PvP is a cesspool. It’s one thing for veteran players to win because they’ve developed superior skills and combat reflexes, and another for them to want to keep their victims helpless because they don’t know the secret exploits that are the keys to winning.
And one thing I really don’t understand: What’s the point of having class size limitations in GG/Black Hole when players can violate them at will by exploiting holes in the mechanics? Leave a sentry SV there and it’s not too difficult to just warp your Class 7 CV in when someone sets it off and kill them before you get the last warning and your ship is deleted. I also hear that people bring > Class 1 SVs to the planet and just pop back up into orbit when they get close to delete time, then pop back into the atmo with the deletion timer conveniently reset. What’s the point of a rule that’s so easy to get around? All it does is reward cheating. Why not just do what happens when you try to enter a system or planet with the wrong origin or insufficient RP and just not allow the player to warp in at all?
First off I agree 100% regarding the class limitations for GG. If it were up to a vote my option would be to teleport any class 1.51 CV/SV/HV to the furthest point possible into BH orbit. I’m thinking 100+km as soon as entering the atmo. If you are required to use a CL1 vessel and knowingly bring one over class, being that BH is a supergate only orbit, you should spend a fair bit of time traveling back to the supergate with an over-class vessel.
As far as secrets concerning building, it all comes down to trial and error. You have to understand, and not meaning any offense to what comes next. We can’t just give you our designs. I have tested a ridiculous amount of SVs, CVs, HVs and even BAs against an AI or other dedicated faction members. I have had so many incremental builds while testing that the end of testing looks nothing like the original (Ranz remembers the double ring). When it comes to building I don’t have any cheats. We all have to abide by the same rules that @RexXxuS has defined, and are subject to the same inspections and punished according if any rule is broken. IE no floating turrets, everything must be attached to vessel, guns not allowed to clip through blocks.
As I have said in many different posts, a great PvP ship design is far more valuable than gold. If someone wants to give pointers then ask, some may be willing to point out your flaws or even post-fighting can give you pointers.
HW is not the bottleneck though, your miss reading the map. HW is the bottleneck for Black Hole and Titan. Jupidor/Sathon attach to Cebo/Walla (PVP) by warp jump north and to Atlantis/Binomi (PVE) by warp jump south.
Both sides go ECC<>PVE<>Pvpve rotation<>PVP>HW PVP on the map. HW is not required.
