SV & HV 8.0 PvP Experience - Input And Discussion Please - On Topic Only

HWS General Discussion
21

Most of everything is fine. Only one major issue for me; which is HV HP:

With hardened steel a 5K Block Hover had a LOT of tankiness.

With combat steel a 5K Block Hover has DOUBLE the tankiness once again making bases largely less powerful against them. I would use this buff as an opportunity to lower the HV block limit to 3K; in line with SVs. Whilst HVs would still have LOTS more HP thanks to their combat steel; Everyone’s a winner.

That way you don’t have to fiddle with anything else; minimum work; the path of least resistance.

Best regards
Wise.

22

Thats true, but combat steel hvs are also very slow and susceptible to quick and nimble fighters. Maybe, rather than a block nerf, SV damage buffs and weapons with faster travel time.

For example, if rail guns had slight homing you could reliably hit a slow moving HV.

Thoughts?

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Not adapted for high-G GG, so currently probably not the best choice.

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I agree, sort it out !

25

Well back in the 1.8 to 3.0 EGS era, all sv’s were pretty small. Battles were glorious because an enemy could be destroyed. Then came guided rockets, especially base guided rockets. This caused everyone to build huge fat sv’s. When they introduced guided rockets we kept asking for counter measures but none were introduced. As a result players kept building bigger and bigger sv’s/hv’s. Yes I remember we all wanted guided missiles. It sounded like an awesome idea but without the counter measures it has been a PVP killer.

I also think the combat steel for hv’s is a bad idea too, would love to see stuff get rolled back, again block limits on sv’s most likely needs to be lowered.

3 Likes
26

I was talking to some TAW guys, and they suggested the following:

  1. Lower HV blocks or get rid of combat steel blocks.
  2. Or increase splash damage.

I honestly think increasing splash damage will make fights shorter.

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Thanks for the feedback so far guys! Keep them coming.

Can you please do me a favor and summarize this topic here from time to time into one post?

What should be done exactly?
What is the part of the limits and what part of our HWS Config?

This would increase lags by XXX. I would rather reduce splash even more for more FPS.

My vision of Empyrion ship PvP is similar to shooters:
You lose or you win. No stalemate etc.
You also don’t have a savegame you can just load if you failed (except from the repair template maybe).

So SV vs SV should be skill based. The better builder AND pilot wins! And a win should be achievable in most cases!
Since we now have basically a separation of SV blocks and HV blocks, this can be balanced completely independent.
Overall this means though: (PvP) SV are declared as fighters. They are only effective against other SVs. Really effective.
Most weak against BAses and CVs. In disadvantage at least against HVs.

HVs are bit effective against SVs, but more effective against BAses and highly effective against other HVs.

BAs are most effective against SVs, then HVs and least CVs.

CVs are most effective against BAses, SVs and HVs. CV versus CV should be again rather skill based in terms of building and piloting.

To achieve this “effectiveness system” (maybe known from elementar games as pokemon “Water is effective against Fire” etc.) we have to change couple of things.

CV mounted weapons for example are allowed on planets again with high burst power against Bases - the “breaker”.
SVs have more variety strength in their guns.

HVs will get properly aligned again against others with their own HV blocks now.

I am just not sure when I want to tackle this because Alpha 9 might implement different ship classes as freighter / fighter / scouter etc. ?
Not sure…

Just to point out my point of view that I don’t like the current gameplay overall, as many don’t. We need “classes” for ships with advantages and disadvantages to make the game more interesting.

2 Likes
28

Summary Thus Far

  1. SV vs SV - We need more damage here - aka we need more blocks disappearing every time a hit is landed.
  2. SV Weapons - There needs to be a reason to use other weapons other than homing, as it is right now people basically use 135 and that is it.

Pulse - Need to do more damage, maybe penetrate more per hit.
Rail - Need to have slight homing.
Plasma - Faster travel time
Dumb Fire - Probably fine as is, as they have a vs Base vs HV purpose now.
Gatling - need to do more damage.

Also, SVs need to do more damage vs Hover Vehicles blocks in general.

Hover Vehicles

  1. Art Shells - These need to hit HARD. On average a skilled SV pilot can dodge an arty shot, so if and when these do hit it should be something that makes a SV pilot think twice about dive bombing a HV again.

  2. Homing Rockets/Plasma - Need a slight damage buff vs SV/HV

  3. Gatling Guns - Hard to use against a SV in a fight, not sure what to do here.

The general summary of SV vs SV vs HV fights is that they last too long. There isn’t enough damage/blocks/thrusters etc disappearing on each hit.

Capital Vessel

I haven’t done much here, but these are my thoughts.

  1. More mounted weapons - If we want to make CV combat more skilled base, we need more mounted weapons. Otherwise, combat is just about who can out fly who. (Which doesn’t take that much skill in a 1v1)

  2. Mounted weapons on planet - Not a bad idea, but we would need to look at base damage vs CVs and make sure that is balanced or people will just throw their CVs at bases again like they used too.

  3. Hanger Bay Doors - We need to get rid of these hanger bay door ships… lol. They basically circumvent the 100 block count limit because hanger bay doors are so big, but only count as one block.

Another thing that needs to be addressed, if possible is “decoy targeting”. Most HV pilots take a few gatling guns or mini gun turrets and bury them under layers and layers of steel. So in a Base vs HV, or HV vs HV fight, or a CV vs CV fight, turrets basically end up just shooting away at what’s buried for most of the fight. This makes it fairly easy to keep your maximum DPS for most of the fight, and not lose anything vital.

Solutions -

  1. Thruster blocks need to be exposed - this will instantly make fights shorter as it’ll be easy to target them.

  2. Turrets that are buried are not counted as targets. (Not sure if that can be implemented or not)

1 Like
29

What we need are more player controlled active abilities, too much things are passive: armor, autoturrets.
Ideally every device should have a special ability with cooldown, thruster boost, burst fire, shields, in flight repairs, …
The only thing on cooldown for vehicules is the hover booster and it’s useless on the behemoth hv we must build. We don’t need new class of ships, just powerful but limited abilities.

1 Like
30

Tell that to Eleon. I agree on the CV combat though, too boring as there is practically no real skill required at the moment, just point in a direction and hope that your turrets shoot, then someone warps away. It’s all down to design, which is superior. What would make it a game changer would be using more manual fire weapons, greater damage, in addition to the turrets. More piloting skills would be required to say the least.

1 Like
31

That would be neat. Having a few abilities that can help you turn the tide of a fight would be great. For example - Warp driver disablers.

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@Ezze