SV & HV 8.0 PvP Experience - Input And Discussion Please - On Topic Only

HWS General Discussion
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Initial Comments
Over the last 2 - 3 days, I have had nearly a dozen 1v1, 2v1, and 3v1 SV vs SV/HV fights. Of all dozen encounters, I died only once and that was due to me face tanking a base before engaging in a 10 minute 2v1. I only died then because I got careless and stopped in space thinking I was safe.

Topic Of Discussion
What changes should we be making to SV/HV damage so that these engagements so that it’s actually possible to kill or defeat someone in an engagement? I would like friends and foes alike to give their thoughts and feedback. Please, let’s keep it civil guys.

My Feedback
I believe SVs and HVs need a base damage buff to each other. In most of my fights, I’ve been hitting with a 75 - 80% accuracy, and in one case I burnt through nearly 1k in homing missiles. In a 2v1, one of my enemies was badly beaten, but I had to retreat because I was running low on ammo.

@RexXxuS This is where I need your feedback. You commented that splash damage caused lag, but I believe the nerfed splash damage is lengthening fights. Would bringing back splash damage be a huge lag issue? If we don’t bring back splash damage, would increasing damage even make fights shorter?

I haven’t had a chance to test it, but if you hit someone with homing rockets do you take out a number of blocks equal to the damage or do you only take out the blocks you hit?

The Creation Of Special Newbie PvP Vessels
We can all agree that prefab SV/HVs are not going to be decent PvP vessels. In order to help our newer players last longer, while helping vets have more enjoyable fights, I suggest that we have our builders design a line of PvP vessels specifically for newer players.

Many of the vet factions have their own line of vessels they use, so I’m not saying share these. But, I know a few of our builders would be open to sharing some “okay” PvP designs. @Khajjah

Summary
We either need to up splash damage or up damage overall, but only if doing so will make fights last longer - this will bring more players into PvP contests. This might also bring newbies out of PvE environments, as they will be able to put up a better fight without being rolled by vets who as it stands have vastly superior designs to work with.

@TacoIsland @Crewmember123 @TheRaven @ICE @Scorp

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@Wiseman738 Looping you in.

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Why settle for OK pvp ships ?

Just download Knumbskulls Pugio SV, which is more than ok.

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Most PvP ships you’ll find on the Workshop don’t compare to the “vets” custom ships. So, I use the term “okay”, because I don’t want to ask people to post their best ships for newbies to get their hands on.

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Because you need to know to modify or at least give you ideas on proper built PvP designs to entice you to create new designs. More minds building leads to new ideas that we may not have thought of.

@Ranzeth I agree on the legnth of fights, I would prefer upping the damage over increasing the splash radius. Otherwise we would end up fighting in cubes with tons of whitespacing to control the splash damage to the cockpits. Last night was a good example of the current meta, I can agree on increasing damage a bit. Just not splash, ends fights too quickly IMO.

2 Likes
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Gotcha. I see what you are saying, but will increasing damage end fights quicker? What I’m not sure about if more damage = more blocks lost.

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Indeed, i was taught a lesson going through the Pugio in creative, i use his cockpit protection in new SVs i’m building now.

The workshop has approximately 1 pvp sv capable of going on GG, and that’s the Pugio. I have spent hours and hours going through supposed pvp SVs on workshop, and they are all crap, everyone of em.

Sayin that the new gg gravity, the Pugio needs a rework ! hint hint… :slight_smile:

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Theoretically it should, would at least force us to repair faster or grab another vessel. Splash damage would definitely end fighting too quickly. Last night I got shot out of my cockpit, respawned and jumped back in the same cockpit and continued. It didn’t spell the end for my ship, but for others it would definitely be a drawback for PvP fighting.

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Most every ship on the workshit is just that. Use them for design ideas only, unless you prefer PvE.

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hehe, that’s exactly what i’ve done ! Grabbed the right shaped class 2, gutted it to 0.6 but kept the intricately designed shell that i’m clueless on on how to get those funky shapes…feck it’s as hard as doing the inside.

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I think that’s what splash damage is all about, penetrating multiple blocks on one hit. If the “cloud” of damage remains the same, then it’ll just destroy what it hits, and increasing damage just means you destroy those blocks faster, whereas splash damage means more blocks destroyed per hit.

I think, I haven’t tested it so I don’t know. Guess we will have to wait for Rex to chime in.

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I think splash is good right where it’s at honestly, but the damage could use a buff. Used the same SV tonight, no repairing and made it off ice still. Missing a warp, but I can get one of those in a minute.

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Yeah, I got a kill on Red, but that was because I was able to sneak up on him. I don’t care if it’s more damage or splash tbh. I just want there to be real danger in a fight.

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I’ve definitely felt that there needs to be more damage going out. The fights are lasting hella long without anybody ever dieing. I don’t think splash damage would be the right way to go about it though, and feel the splash is in a pretty good spot as it is now. On that same note, I’m not sure if increasing damage to HVs would be the proper way to go about things though, especially with their new updated combat steel blocks. They can already shred an SV that gets too close.
On a separate note, I’m only really seeing people using homing rockets and nothing else. Maybe the occasional non homing and plasma if somebody stays too still for too long, but I’m rarely seeing anything else. Idk if this is a player preference thing or not, I’ve been testing other people’s designs lately and haven’t had a chance to really look at that but I’m planning on taking a look at those other weapons soon. At the very least I’d like to see more variety going around than just the standard homing rockets, and if we do a significant buff to homing missiles, then I’m afraid we’ll only ever see those.

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Homing are the only thing that hit regularly, if you fight close quarters pulse can hit too, but they don’t do enough damage.

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And that’s just it, the only SV weapons that have the highest chance of hitting will be used; nothing else has a homing property, better to not have those unnecessary weapons and use more armor, or only use them on stationary targets as that’s the only thing that will be hit.

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Or change their values so they have a higher chance of hitting and do more damage. I can hit regularly with pulse at 150m, but I only take out a single block per hit lol.

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Exactly my point. If plasma had a better chance or had a limited homing ability, I would definitely consider it.

As I see it now here is what I think of SV weapons:

Homing - best in PvP against SV/HV
Non homing- best against bases or stationary targets
Minigun - too slow, low DPS and very short range
Plasma - higher damage, but has to be stationary
Pulse- fast, but too low damage
Rail- good for distances but has to be stationary

Sure you can try to lead ahead of the target, but your highly unlikely to hit. Best to hit with homing 99% of the time because they will be using the same.

Say your using a class 7 SV with nothing but pulse against a class 1 SV using homing. Odds are far greater that the class 1 comes out on top.

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I agree. This is how I think weapons should work:

Homing:Fine
Non-Home: Should move faster and be an anti-tank weapon.
Minigun - should have faster damage and be a close range weapon, at least until they fix the bug that let’s people shoot through blocks.
Plasma - make it the second highest damage per hit weapon, increase projectile travel speed, and make it a weapon that skilled users can benefit from.
Pulse - Increase damage a bunch, make it so it takes out a nice chunk per hit (or something)
Rail - add a slight homing to it so that if you are in range and you only strafe a few feet you still get hit.

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The easiest thing to do is to lover the Block limit again and lover the HP on the blocks.
Todays firepower is somewhat good. I would love to see loasers getting some more power but overall i think its good.

The problem is that we that can build pvp ships will always use as many blocks as we can. And by doing that we build ships that never dies. Same with HV´s.

So to make it simple just lower harden steel blocks HP´s down by maybe 25 % and for HV´s i would take them down to 3k blocks and remove CB blocks. The CB blocks on HV´s are just insane.

1 Like