I’ve seen this done on other servers, seen it mentioned here, and pretty sure it’s likely to be required in later versions through exhaust damage mechanics. So maybe this should be made a rule on this server. Thrusters should be exposed in some way. Not necesarilly all out in the open, they can be protected by vents, or tubes build around and extending out a bit. I think this would nudge people in the direction of more thought out builds, not feeling the need to put 5 layers over everything turning the structure into a brick. I’ve seen very nice ships on the workshop that I’d like to use but am not inclined to do so knowing my thrusters a partly exposes and the other person has layers of armor over theirs. I’m sure this might not be the most popular choice but it’s likely to be a requirement eventually so why not get ourselves into the mindset and comfortable with it.
I don’t disagree with the sentiment but feel like this would only increase the issues with “Too many changes too quickly.” Hold off for now, there’s already gonna be block limits implemented and several other changes come 8.0.
IMO this is a crap argument, this idea is to cater to the PvE role playing based BS crowd that screams cheater because they don’t understand. If they really want to go this route, might as well expose all cockpits while we are at it, and force us to play in first person. I’ll fucking quit before it goes to that, and I’m willing to bet a lot others will to.
Fortunately Eleon is too busy enhancing the graphics for the Zirax shit in the toilet, and will be for an extended period of time. After that they will implement rainbows and kitties and a faithful K9 space dog, for the solo players.
Tell us how you really feel
i totally agree that it can wait.
oh i dont think that cockpits need to be exposed at all. bury those suckers deep. i just feel that it doesnt make sense that a thruster can be encased in steel and still operate. the only reason we can do that is a limitation of the game being alpha. im not much of a role player. i have only the bare necessities on my ships. i just would like things to be a bit more realistic thats all. ill bury my thrusters as long as the rules and game allows it cause i want to be just as protected as the next guy.
If you follow what devs say, it will happen, new thrusters types too (without exhaust)
You can have 2x2 large CV thrusters “exposed” and still behind as much layers as you want with rounded blocks for tubes.
Last fight with my big CV against 2 RED i lost only 2 exposed front large thrusters out of the 24 I have in all directions, all thrusters of the ship are visible from outside.
I doubt this would ever be made a rule for the simple fact that it would take enormous amounts of time to check and enforce.
Even in SE, where there is thruster damage, you can still put thrusters inside your ship as long as there is enough free space on the business end.
It could be made prohibitive, cast rays for damage checks to the max lenght of ships possible and its good.
Even with lentgh of ray equal to exhaust plume it’s already prohibitive, your ship mobility will take a big it considering how rcs works if you must add severals blocks to cover exhaust.
That is a great idea! And delete every single ship that doesn’t follow it, starting with almost every prefab ship spawned. This sounds like a great way to drive players away!
Realistically I think we’re a terribly long way off from the devs implementing anything that would force the creation of ships with external thrusters.
- If they give plume damage then builders would just leave a gap in their armor in the area where that plume damage would occur
- If they go the route of splash damage same thing
The only thing the devs could do to actually force the creation of ships that MUST have external thrusters, or at least some form of external design, is to create a system that tracks the heating of the interior of the ship and if there’s no exhaust for the engines then that heat builds up.
- More engines, machines, etc. cause the interior to heat up faster
- 1 square gap allows X amount of heat to escape per second
The devs have their attention somewhere else currently and even if they do implement some form of engine damage system I doubt we see all PvP ships having their thrusters suddenly start appearing on the outside. Also:
That’s definitely very true in regards to ship design. You would see players put some thrusters on the outside if it were made a rule but there would still be internal thrusters and with only two server admin they wouldn’t have the time to tear open every single ship to verify they meet proper specs. I don’t see a rule being implemented for that very reason, just my personal take on it.
Any prefab ship has exposed thrusters, the only thing covering them is vents which could be made immune to thruster damage.
Sadly I have to agree with this. I’m sure most honorable people would follow such a rule but there would still be many that would do just that. I suppose we will see what happens in the future.
You either have no clue what you are talking about or you are intentionally lying. Which one is it?
You are also softening up your own proposed rule because it is apparently ok for thrusters to be buried but only by certain blocks.
But just to entertain you, SV prefabs with buried thrusters, excluding those covered by shutter and walkway blocks: 1, 1a, 1c, 1d, 3a, 4, 5, 5a, 5b, 5c, 6
Next you’ll say “I can see them so they are not buried!” which would disqualify you from any discussion about game mechanics.
Enforcing any thruster “Expose” Rule would be harder then turret placement rules that is already
hard to enforce for HWS.
Umm, what? This doesnt make much sense. Thrusters one way or another Eject gas/fire/propulsion.
Cockpits can have cameras and TV screens to see without Seeing. This has nothing to do with PvE.
As you know I make PvP ships all with exposed thrusters just because I think it looks betters.
I think its sad that people think a large thruster emitting FIRE (Or whatever future tech this is, because JETS DONT WORK IN SPACE lol) inside of a brick makes sense…
Thusters inside of ships is about the same as turrets inside of ships. Turrets need a slot to fire, Thrusters need a slot to well… FIRE.
I understand your point, and mostly agree. But at the same time in Real life steel and such can be custom made to cover (However slightly) Thrusters or engines. In this game we only have the preset block types to work with.
Until Eleon makes custom blocks to Protect thrusters its just not easy to do. Even the half/quarter blocks dont seem right. (Though its better)
Thats really the bottom line, Without Eleon making dire consequences to Thrusters in a box HWS would have to police to the EXTREAM to make anything happen, and thats not fair to HWS.
Even the HV turrets are a constant hassle. (Honestly I tested many designes and found that now Eleon has fixed it for the most part. Gun inside of block or with block in front of its barrel wont fire. That is if the block is in FRONT of the barrel, not IN the barrel… This means art with a long barrel could have a block that it clips through and fire… BUT if the block was in FRONT of the long barrel the bullet would hit the block and misfire. As it should.
Then we should use aerodynamics’s and use a system of building similar to RoboCraft. Don’t get me wrong, Robo Craft PVP gets boring and grindy but there is a lot of good in the system as well. Such as aerodynamic’s, weapon energy bars, stealth, EMP weapons, flak guns that are actually anti air, healing guns that restore blocks, etc.
Everything else aside, this is impossible to police and will just make everyone suspicious that everyone else is not following the rule. All that will do is lead to more forum whining and more wasted time of admins.
Behold: Future tech for fire thrusters in space!!!
FYI, this is the schematic for a German V2 from WW2, one of the first rocket motors with self contained oxidizer (which btw is the difference between a jet and a rocket, and the reason rockets work just fine in space). The oxidizer is combined in a reaction chamber at the rear, and the fuel is ignited. Backpressure from the reaction keeps the chamber pressurized. sorry, but I had to respond to this because there are just too many conspiracy theorists online claiming that humans have never been in space, the world is flat, etc. who use the argument that fire cannot burn in space as proof.
To the original intent of the thread though, this falls much more into the game mechanics themselves. As has been mentioned, it is completely unenforceable on the scale that HWS is currently. Might be a valid option for a small scale immersive server or playthrough, or a challenge for yourself.
FYI though it is not that crazy to implement block damage, and to have it massively change the meta of building. It is exactly what happened in space engineers when they did just that. But it needs to come down to a game mechanic, not a legion of OCD (disorder, not storage) people in God mode checking every ship in the server and deleting them at will.
In your image there nothing is behind the rocket where the hot stuff shoots out. It still has an exaust area that will destroy anything there that cannot withstand the blast. … However…
This quote is from Wiki: “The V-2 was guided by four external rudders on the tail fins, and four internal graphite vanes in the jet stream at the exit of the motor.”
So they had INTERNAL vanes IN the jet stream even back then. Certainly EGS can too.
ya the whole thruster damage thing is a completely different argument from the picture. I was responding specifically to the whole no flame in space thing. Turns out in order to propel things, it requires equal force in opposite direction. So of course a thruster-in-a-box doesnt make sense without somewhere to expel the gasses and produce acceleration. Im just saying if we want that to be an official thing in the game, the game designers have to do something about it, not the server owners with arbitrary rules. And the internal vanes thing was updated later to use a vectoring nozzle to direct the thrust in a rocket engine. Same concept still, but not really related to thruster damage. It still cannot block the gases.
Maybe these engines are just vastly updated quantum engines. Maybe Einstein should have got a haircut. We will never know.