5.0 Questions for admins

have we decided on a ship limit for 5.0?

I know there was talk of class 3 ships, 3 cores, and 10,000 block limit. Is that official yet? I for one an in favor of those changes for a more stable game for everyone.

Second question is about the aliens in 5.0. Is that a HWS change or are there going to be alien AI in space for Empyrion 5.0 patch. Just curious if HWS guys got some leaked information about the next patch.

Thanks

The only leak is that we / I am quite responsible for the things coming in 5.0. But I don’t tell, sorry :stuck_out_tongue:

Because of the 5.0 we have to set core limit 3. It is better for everyone, trust me…

An overall Core limit on every playfield will be also set. Yes, 3 is quite official since you can now build separate structures with 1 core (merge structures).
Block limit… in testing phase still 30k maybe.

Aliens in 5.0… :slight_smile::skull::popcorn:

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Thanks for the info. 30k is pretty big.

Will there be a class limit?

And what determines class? I think it is device count only but I am not sure about that.

Class 3 and yes its about devices I think 250/500

Per player per playfield or total over the entire server? So 1 house, 1 SV, 1 CV (no core left for warp CV, gotta warp with your battleship). At least taxes will no longer be required.

However, will BA’s (in PVE) also count as cores then? They hardly take up any performance I believe.

At least with a 30k block limit I can afford to waste ships. Wasting a few hundred thousand block ships right now is still expensive but 30k is cheaper than my warp ships :smiley:

I’m worried about aliens killing performance… While they will probably just be cheesed again because of poor AI.

Wait, the blocklimit & device limit does not apply to BA’s in perma PVE fields I hope.

10-15k block limit would be alot better :smiley:

We already discussed the block limit before in regard to how high/low to set it.

10k would be ideal IF and only IF there are no bugs/dc/networking/lag-shots/etc. problems in the game. Try dc-ing in a 10k block ship, try getting shot inside-out in a 10k block ship (especially if ships break apart in 5.0 when blocks are not connected). Yup those are basically game over with just 10k blocks. And how often do you DC in battle? 2 out of 3 times? Aye… Now perhaps setting the limit to just 10k will lower this ratio but it would severely increase the impact of getting one of those bugs.

Networking in Unity = horror (at least up to 4.x, not sure about 5.3) . Not build-in like in the Unreal Engine. So the devs have to do it all manually (or buy a package from the Unity store but even those are far from ideal). The biggest problem in PVP is probably the network code, assuming that their code for ships is highly optimized already otherwise this is another problem. On top of that this game is basically a block + voxel MMO, making it way more complex.

I never ever saw one Unity game (they probably exist but I didn’t see them) using blocks + voxels that actually performs in multiplayer with > 20 players. 7 Days to Die suffers from this exact same problem. And I find it unlikely that the devs are able to fix it for this game as it would be very time consuming for them to do so and it would require a great amount of expertise that most programmers don’t have.

We had this in 3.0 already but just for PvE. Hopefully Jascha implement it that we can choose PvP and PvE separately.
Then it will be global per player.

Example: Player A can globally and ultimately only have 3 BAs. Everywhere. If he build 3 BA on Homeworld he can never ever have other BA anywhere in the universe. If he still builds them a random BA will be set to HWS faction after 45min*3 warnings.

Again it is BA, not the other cores. The other cores can only be set generally per playfield which can create imbalance.
Example: Only 30 cores allowed on Gold Planet. If one faction build 29 cores there (SV+CV+BA+HV) then the other people only have 1 core left.

Yes, 30k seems to much after some testings yesterday. Guess it will around 10-17k again.
Regarding problems Tiny it is better in 5.0. So you don’t need to build a 30 layer armor where 28 from them are ment for bug protecting :wink: At least I hope so. Seems promosing. But my tests are not considering 100 player online.

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I believe you will notice much less combat disconnects when the ships arent absurdly huge. My current 8k model does very well in pvp against anything that isnt a cheese barge (aka exploiting turret targetting)

Okay so this limit ONLY applies to BA’s. I do not understand why there is a limit to cores for BA’s only, forgive me if I misread please.
They use the least server performance of all buildings. And in PVE they don’t even need turrets and on donator planets the playfield even unloads when there is nobody online.
So okay my house in 5.0 is gonna be a CV then in order not to waste any slots for the BA. This will only stress the server more I believe and will create a surplus of CV’s with disabled thrusters.
And the trade stations will then be CV’s instead of BA’s?

Well yeah if they fix all those bugs, then 10k is plenty and we won’t need 30 armor layers and silly blocks. So they will fix ALL all network code, all collision problems and all ‘PVP-exploits’ ? Wow 5.0 has a serious networking code overhaul then. I can barely believe they fixed all this. I would need to see this working for large scale battles with a server with 80 players online yes.

What will happen when core limit is reached in 5.0? Will the playfield be perma gone like now? What if 3 factions with 25 members each, have up to 225 BA’s total + CV’s + etc. So we can use this as a tactic to permanently occupy some PVP playfield in 5.0?

Less is not enough. Even if it’s 90% less, it’s still waaaaaaaaay too much. They need to pretty much fix this 99.9%.

And the merging of cores is gonna be useless if there is a 10k block limit. How can I merge my house with someone else’s house if the windows exceed the device limit or if the blocks are simply too many… Not to mention other problems.

Maybe I just misunderstand it all. But I’m getting this feeling that 5.0 is gonna be a weird patch with tons of restrictions… But can’t be worse than 4.0… 4.0 has a nearly infinite amount of exploits/imbalances it seems. I’m still finding them on an almost daily basis.

10k block limit is ideal for some people. There are plenty of ships that exceed that I personally enjoy flying. 10k block limit I think would be too severe limitation on people’s creativity. Some of the star trek ships are minimum 15k blocks. So now I can’t fly any star trek ships I want if this limitation is in place. I think 20k is more fair for everyone including people who play PVE. What the fun in flying around in a small cube?

Also the core limitation is only for BA or is it for overall? For instance if I want to make an orbital station (BA) and build a dozen ships (CV,SV) there, I wouldn’t be able to do it with the core limitation?

You think again to complicated I guess.

Wrong, but you wasn’t on Gold Planet before the 5AP exploit.

Have fun. But I see your point so I am already rewriting a lot of rules. “No CVs on PvE planets (except restricted donator Planets)” for example.

We can’t make this hardcore exceptions. I am still thinking about the NPC feedback topic and the rework… but CVs for now too.

Armaggeddon.

Well if you get to this point, gratulations. You conquered one planet but have nothing else in the rest of the universe. Have fun for the intruders or to conquer different planets you are not spread out.

I was more thinking of better defend tactics. Now you need to use 3 BA cores to have a little planetary defend system. Now you only need 1.

Don’t be so negative :stuck_out_tongue:
Restrictions are sadly needed as long as it is needed.

As mentioned, only for BA.

But I get all your critique… instead of BA everyone will have millions of CV defense towers on the planet. If you tryhard this way, we tryhard with restrictions. Easy.

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If devs wouldnt fix dat random dmg that goes through 100500 layers of armor and ruin devices… U’ll loose a lot. As for me, Battle CV less than 15k blocks - useless. Its just waste of time.

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Are we going to get any notice prior to the 5.0 full wipe?

Rexx, one thing that confuses me is this block limit, is it per player and faction at the same time? For example, my faction can have up to 1 BA and 3 Cvs per game field, if yes that is ok, but besides that would be only private ships of members of the faction, example, in Jagal there is already 3 CVs of the faction and BA and later Could only private ships of members of the faction be there?

And as for the 10k block limit, it would be for everything a player can contruct, example I can build 1k 5k blocks and a 5k blocks BA and soon could no more do any other ship, and this way it works?

Or is the 10 k block just for each ship?

Another issue is with the creation of limits by field of play by factions, it means that the tax system will no longer be necessary since the faction could only by a nucleus in the player field, you could restrict the faction planets to only one nucleus of BA For each faction and levy taxes only on the CVs stationed on the planets, so the bases would be just places where the groups would hold resources used in wars or trade.

Not a firm warning - but when you see “release candidate 5.0” show up - you’ll know you got almost no time left

That’s what I meant. Thanks :slight_smile: . I’m glad you agree that we NEED these rules. Otherwise this is the first thing a lot of players would be doing on both PVE and PVP on day 1. I’m glad you write the rules at forehand regarding things like this.

I’m surprised that BA’s cost more server performance than CV’s though… That’s super odd because they are basically the same only they are immovable. There must be something odd then that makes them drain more. No I wasn’t on gold planet that early. I was still care-bearing in Milky Way under the old rules I bet :slight_smile: .

What I meant: Of course you would do this to a very important playfield (orbit more likely, like Homeworld now). Dividing the entire galaxy in two and also semi-automatically occupying all planets within that playfield. Effectively you occupy 1 orbit + 5 planets while having to do almost nothing to defend it. But this will only work if the playfield does not bug out at max cores and instead prohibits new cores. But since this will still trigger “Armaggeddon” this won’t even happen. That’s good :slight_smile:

Yes perhaps I’m too negative… It’s just… I can’t believe the devs actually fixed&improved so much complex code for one patch while adding more features. It just sounds too good to be true. And such big changes usually mean: lots of bugs&exploits at first which may destroy PVP again (especially in small ships). But we can only wait and see so I should&will shut up about 5.0.

Thanks for answering all my ‘negative’ questions & critique. I just don’t want anything bad to slip through. I’ll just wait it out.

[quote=“AlexAKM, post:16, topic:2629”]
If devs wouldnt fix dat random dmg that goes through 100500 layers of armor and ruin devices… U’ll loose a lot. As for me, Battle CV less than 15k blocks - useless. Its just waste of time.
[/quote]Had that yesterday… Evengy shot through multiple layers of spaced armor and damaged a component inside… Then the repair bay bugged so I had to drill my way through it to repair it… Sigh… But if I understood Rex correctly this will all be fixed.