Ammunition is too Expensive for New players

HWS General Discussion
1

Hello all, Hello Rex,

Recently i’ve been looking at the new ammo recipes and i’ve concluded that they are too expensive, and they fail to encourage new and newer players into PVP action.

Let’s look at one of the most common SV weapons: SV Rockets.

15 Homing rockets require the following:

  • 10 Steel plate (2 iron ingots) [This bit is Fine]
  • 5 Promethium Pelletes (2.5 Prom ore) [This is also fine]
  • 6 Magnesium Powder (3.0 Mag Ore) [This too is fine!]
    5 Electronics (10 Copper and 5 Silicon) [This is fine]
    10 Erestrum Gel- (50 Erestrum ingots!) [This is far too steep!]

So my biggest issue with both Homing and Dumbfire rocket production is the Erestrum cost involved. Let’s say I wanted to make a stack (300) of rockets. Here’s what i’d need.

We do the above Recipe 20 as 1520=300.

Iron: 220=40Iron Ingots
Promethium: 2.520=50 Promethium Ore
3 Magnesium Ore*20=60 Magnesium Ore
2 Copper and 1 Sillicon 20= 40 Copper and 20 Sillicon Ingots.
50 Erestrum Ingots20=1000Erestrum Ingots.

So in this case the ‘rare’ resource is actually the one that requires the most resources. Now in my opinion this extremely expensive cost puts off newer players from PVP due to the frankly prohibitive cost of Erestrum (not to mention the difficulty of finding it in this new universe where resources are more scarce).

Oh and if anyone thinks that I want this for myself’ think again:

Proof

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image.jpg1920×1080 134 KB

This is all about the new players. Here’s my two ‘suggestions’ for a fix. This can be sort-of fixed (picking 1 suggestion) or VERY fixed (picking both suggestions)

Suggestion 1
Reduce the amount of Erestrum Gel to 1 piece per 15 rockets (This would be 5 ingots per 15 Rockets, so a ratio of 1 Ingot : 3 Rockets).

Suggestion 2
Revert (Go back) to the old Erestrum Gel recipe of 2 Ingots per Gel. This would change the Rocket Recipe by making 10 Gel be 20 Ingots. So 15 Rockets would be 20 Ingots.

Personally I think both suggestions together are best for our new players, hell at this rate i’d even encourage occassional Erestrum Meteorites landing on some of the PVE planets just to bring it into circulation for some of them

In the future i’ll be taking a look at the other recipes also as i know we mess with the damage models but another way we can improve and build upon the PVP Meta is by making recipes fairier on new players to provide them the opportunity to invest their time and energy into HWS!

Best regards and lemme know what you guys think below!
Wise.

1 Like
2

Yes but expensive ammo means you will choose carefully who you attack instead of just See someone Kill someone. Betting that was the idea behind Rex doing that. It hurts the solo guy like me a lot more than the bigger factions still I like the idea. Perhaps atleast other smaller factions will plan attacks rather than just the KOS.

3

Rex didn’t do the change; it was once again an Eleon decision designed primarily towards PVErs and expanding the amount of time/effort it requires to make it more grindy.

But i am glad you agree with me on this point :slight_smile: I defo feel we need to encourage the smaller PVP factions to come out of their shells and explore the big wide PVP world that Rex created :slight_smile:

Best regards
Wise.

4

Are you sure the ammo is not hws? I know when I first came here 2 seasons ago the erestrum cost was hws only. Maybe it’s across all servers now but I’m not sure. I found it very difficult when I first started but I stuck it out in the end and it was worth it. All other servers bored me and made me quit empyrion all together. So if any new players see this just try a little harder and use those orbital auto miners. Everything will be ok and worth the effort. Biggest issue might actually be pois not respawning to give auto miners.

5

Yes Rexxus made them more expensive.

But Eleon has buffed the Erestrum Gel cost so now it has made Rockets far less affordable for many newer players.

1 Like
6

Getting resources is too hard for newbies i guess…

7

I was a new player with 6 weeks left on season 7, and never found it a problem. The game…the game almost, ok it DID force me to design a PVP CV to go mine the asteroids around golden globe. If it had been freely available in pve-land/much cheaper, i’d never have made the cv or had the thrill of being chased away by big bad ships that scared the Bejesus out of me.

keep it hard…this is not a server like Inflicted(were i spent 100s of hrs). I think of it in MMO terms, were in wow you always had rare materials to make stuff…Erestrum is our purples :slight_smile:

Just do the Mole Run once, 10 stacks :slight_smile:

8

Getting the resources is easy. I am solo and I have managed to do it. It is about how you play and how much thought you put into things. Also they have an entire planet of the hard to get resourses. It is just not a friendly place to be. Atleast Rex made sure if PVE wants the Rares they will have to do something to earn it.

9

Well if you are under prepared for PVP then come on the server when others are not. Or Cross Warp to the other server when its population is low. This i how I do it. Even with a bounty on my head no one will get me unless I am willing to be got. Some may call my survival being a coward but if and when I have the weapons and ammo to fight you will know about it.

10

Season 7 was an exception when it came to resources; most other seasons one had to work much harder (but deposits were plentiful and replenished, unlike the ones in this season).

I think everyone so far has missed my intention on this thread; For me primarily my main Suggestion is to simply revert the cost of Erestrum Gel. And discussions regarding resource gain in 7 are unfortunately moot as i’m talking about new players who manage to leave starter in 8.0. Only to find the cost of making ammo prohibitive.

Here’s my maths behind it:

Erestrum gel cost being 2.5X what it was. So instead of 15 Rockets being 20 Erestrum, 15 Rockets are now a wopping 50 Erestrum due to a Vannilla Eleon change.

So instead of 1 Rocket costing 1.3 Erestrum 1 Rocket now costs 3.3 Erestrum, nearly a 3X Increase in cost.

My biggest issue is that the ‘rare’ resource is the one that seems to be the most needed thing these days. Why is a ‘rare’ resource ‘rare’ when you need TONS of it for one of the most common weapons in the game.

My Suggestion is simple; We Revert the Erestrum Gel recipe to the old one: From 5 ingots for 1 Gel to 2 Ingots for 1 Gel.

Best regards to you all
Wise.

So in my opinion all we really need to do is

11

We are a small faction (3 players) and we are ok with the actual cost of the ammo. The game is all about grinding. Biggest factions and from past seasons have more capacity/ammo and i am ok with it. I just mine more. We have already a crate for each kind of high cost ammo and is the first season playing here.

12

Hey guys,

first let me clear some facts :wink:

HWS has a lot of custom configurations and the cost of certain things are higher than on vanilla.
Either we adjusted the prices according to the boosted damage or I thought about some logical things and decided my own what is better than vanilla (for example Water for cement)

So let me show you here, on the left side the current vanilla cost and on the right side our HWS cost of rockest:

hws-cost
hws-cost.JPG1480×819 88.2 KB

My personal opinion is still:
the boosted damage in HWS has to be reflected also in the cost. The first or second thing new players shouldn’t do is PvP, hence it is a natural selection for them to NOT do PvP because they just don’t have the resources for it.
Making the Ammo cheaper means they would be able to craft ammo. But it is like giving an inexperienced soldier a big fat gun in the hand: he only hurts himself with it.

Second reason why the craft cost is high is to boost the HWS economy because the Gun Store on ECC has ammo which are in comparison to the craft cost way cheaper. So even if we have new player who really want PvP they can buy ammo if they want the shortcut.

That is just my opinion about the general stance.
If 10 Eres Gel is now too much and has to be 5 or 7 for example is up for discussion.

1 Like
13

Yes the problem is that the cost of ERESTRUM GEL has gone up. (From 2 Ingots per Gel to 5 ingots per Gel).

That’s my issue.

Best regards
Wise. :slight_smile:

14

Still when you consider how easy it is to get the erestrum I do not see the issue? I had many stacks of it before I left the PVE area and all I did was go through ONE POI. That is right one Puzzle POI even is all it took. So the resources are there for those that want to get out there and find it. If you start making things easy then you just make the game easy and people leave faster. Also with ammo at a high cost I say it again that means Kill On Sight…you really have to think is it worth it. Should you take out that miner just because? Will take those precious resources that as you say are hard to get. So then you think well better let the miner go as he does not have much. Will get the guy later in a battleship where you atleast have more resource to loot.

Hey maybe that is my logic and not others. I know it seems like some PVPers can not help but to kill just to kill. Seems most do not want to leave anything behind. I was taken out by Phoniex which was fair I attacked him before he got in his ship. he did not just shoot me down and kill me. No he wasted so much ammo just taking out the entire junk sv I was in. He his business if he wishes to loose the loot and spend the ammo. Just one example though of how it may not be expensive enough for PVPers. Still most by now also know of the free rares on a PVE world just ripe for the picking. Leaving PVE with nothing.

Life is not fair why does the game need to be. Can always buy anything and everything you need if you EARN credits. Not like there are a lacking of ways to do that either

15

Isn’t about fairness. It’s about the maths:

Erestrum Gel cost is 2.5 what it was before. All i’m asking is for a reversion to the original :slight_smile:

Best regards
Wise.

16

I would say as far as a new players, that has never played the game before . It is to much . If the cost is going to be high like this then the Deposit’s or Asteroid’s need to be Increased to keep newer players, playing on the server .

I also understand Players that have played more , know what they are doing and or have their OCD’s . Might not find it as easy. It is is a challenge . I like a challenge personally .

But once again new players is the concern for me . Not people that know what they are doing and keep playing . New players tend to go where things are easier . I would like to keep all members new and old and motivate them to Raid POI’s and pvp . … Content Creation is what keeps people . If they are scared to attack or play then they will get bored , quit playing or go to another Server .

2 Likes
17

I don’t see it mentioned yet, but new players CAN go to ECC planet and go to the ammo store.

I just voted and also collected my daily reward and now I can purchase a couple thousand homing rockets for free basically.
In my opinion it’s easy enough if you think outside the box.
New players are directed towards ECC already as part of the missions and the map markers are visible instantly when entering planet. It’s up to them to explore and check things out.

1 Like
18

:wink:
It’s mixed feeling but overall, the main key here is still:
if you make it cheap, only the veterans profit from it because you gave a probably noob the opportunity to get killed faster.
All non-erestrum ammo is not that expensive so they can have some training before.

Maybe I put this specific question next time in the survey or so.

1 Like
19

I am ok with the cost either way . It will become the Normal for the future . If this is to be Normal Can we put more Asteroid’s in space that way there is more for players to be able to mine .

I understand fixing Deposits on planets can be a issue and cause a planet wipe . But adding Asteroids in space can happen with a Normal time restart.

1 Like
20

Lol, sorry @RexXxuS, I guess I did see it mentioned already.
Dang memory starting to fail already.

1 Like