Which base designs?
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Flat bases that allow uninterrupted turret fire no matter where I circled.
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So no top damage and no direct front or side damage. What type of sv\hv?
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A balanced one. Also on the SVs im using bottom is the weakest point⌠also lots of side damage⌠just not top.
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SV => 2.5k <â> 3k
HV => 3.5k <â> 4k
Armageddon, Golden Globe, Homeworld Planets are probably the main staging points for medium-large scale fights.
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I am not on a âwhoâs rightâ quest. Iâm more interested in elevating the criteria of all those that contribute to this amazing gaming community ie better performance, higher player-faction retention,increased donations to support the devs/longevity of the server and the perpetual expansion and increase of overall fun. I am willing to be âwrongâ every time if everyone else can migrate their focus from white-knight/rexxus pets to really contributing/promoting the server in all the different ways each player can contribute.
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You need to be careful about how you do this -There is a big big problem
The problem is that anyone who shows any criticism to changes are ostracized. - The problem is anything they have to say is then perceived as a personal attack - you need to realize this very real problem and Nip it in the bud.
Your Loyal followers will roast and personally attack anyone for going against the masses or suggestions and treat the way things are ran here as sacrosanct - It is a slightly toxic player base and gives the wrong impression about the rest of the Empyrion Gaming community.
The prominent/vocal members will try the reductionist approach to anything critical you have to say and attempt delegitimize your opinions if they do not match their own.
I suggest being more open to critique and considerate of the opinions of others without perceiving criticism as an affront to your ego or an attack at the efforts you put into your server.
That being said -
If you want less lag and performance on your server- You need to do rolling restarts every 1-2 hours with 5-10 minute cooldown warning time under heavy load and it will take care of play field stability -
This method is proven and has worked on other 100+ player PVP servers in the past and gives people the opportunity to take a break in big PVP fights and let offline protection come up.
You are seriously limiting the potential of this game by making these radical changes in the name of âfun and stabilityâ without considering the overall Empryion Player base with proper testing and vetting - you have a responsibility to be up front to new players about these changes and the way the server is ran - that way new people do not get the wrong Idea about Empyrion Galactic Survival as a whole.
I say this because your server is one of the most populated and a lot of players come to it thinking this is the way Empyrion Is meant to be played.
I understand you take great pride in all your work and efforts you have done to make HWS what it is and personally I would like to see it thrive - however there is a huge divide between the regular game and HWS that also needs to be addressed.
The limitations you have now - and the new limitations you are proposing are going to limit diversity and pigeonhole playstyles and build meta - sure there might be different outcomes and battles. But that comes at the price of linear game play.
if you are going to continue down this road and feel this encourages âdiversity and creative builds within the limitationsâ -
You should go all out to the extreme and make them teeny tiny and buff the damage and armour - 1000 blocks or less. balance them against bases and there you go.
cockpit health and gun health and core health need a big increase along with the block reduction.
As it sits you can not âdig inâ or put trenches up on this server in PVP - Digging is the core of this game and it has been minimized and nearly eliminated on this server in the name of âstabilityâ
The more limitations and rules you put into your server the less diverse the viable game-play styles become to those not acquainted with âthe way we do things hereâ
You may not see this as a problem - But limiting the possibilities and potential of Empyrion on this large scale server can negatively effect the perspective and expectations of the Incoming new Player-base when 8.0 drops
I say all these things with experience and Expect all the flame and Salt from not doing the classic appeal to the Ego or emotions and laying out what I have perceived with my short time on HWS and my long time playing every major server since the game launched.
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Okay - what do you think an appropriate block limit would be, please break it out by which playfields you think need which block limits.
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The issue here NEO, is that SV/HV fights last over 30 minutes without someone dying. People burn through 135mm ammo - I can use over 1k and not even hope to kill a class 1 SV that has been killed by a good shipbuilder. Back in the day, we didnât use block limits because resources werenât as abundant and we didnât need too. Now players have all the resources to churn out 7.-8k+ SV/HV with no fear of running out. People engage in fights that no one wins or loses, except for âone player flies awayâ.
So, it begs the question: What do we fear by putting block limitations in place? Do you fear dying or losing a fight? Do we fear losing the ability to tank bases?
What do we have to gain? Fights where you actually get to see your enemy go âboomâ, and you get that kill and bonus RP. Just today, I rolled up on ABN, and dug through his HV killing him. His HV was a 1/3 the size of my SV and he killed BS on me when I told him it was Class Size 1.
The majority of people who are saying âthis is badâ are not presenting why they think it is bad - just that they feel it is a dramatic change. So, it sounds like they are fearing change because they do not know what the end result will be.
TLDR: Not all change is bad. You have the chance to put some input into the block limits, and that is the chance to mitigate whatever your fears might be.
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Thanks for your question. My non TLDR answer is that you canât address one microscopic element of the game âblock limitsâ without a map of how that coordinates with everything else (zoom out) gets adapted to a block limit change.
TLDR to follow:
My real life metaphor would be if a layman wanted to quadruple the fuel tanks on a street (car) racer so it could race longer distances. Does the suspension support the load? What is the impact the added mass to things like heat, performance, wear and tear?
So in order to answer your question Iâd need to ask some back. First, what is the main and secondary reason for implementing block limits above and beyond the class 1 limit that exists? I canât really answer the question because imho the class limit is sufficient. But continuing on with this line of reasoning are there any downsides/negatives to enforcing a block limit. I can think of a few, but I think the most obvious one to me is that most players canât play on this server without a few hundred hours (at least) of empyrion SOMEWHERE ELSE. It is feature rich and learning the game AND Learning HWS is a tall order. (Iâm sure there are exceptions).
So the most obvious to me is that there is a sweet spot between balancing the game/performance and maximizing player gaming experience. Itâs probably almost impossible to attain but should still be attempted. At what point does the average player get overwhelmed with a custom server that is so complex to understand that said player gives up and goes somewhere else. More simply said there is a moment where restrictions and limits become topheavy for the average player and regardless of the intent of the limit, the reality of the limit may cause a less-than-ideal state for the server over all in regards to the player base.
Finally I will admit it is entirely possible that I just donât know enough about HWS and Empyrion to be an expert on the topic of block limits. From my experience last season with all the PVP on GG it was not and is not a priority concern. My reasoning on this again is reflected in questions. What is the percentage of the player base that is effected by or even understand block limits? My best guess is that it is a low percentage but again I donât really have the data for that so that is a guess. The next question would be if we had a real list of the top 20 things that affect most or all of the players would block limits even make that list? You probably know better than I if it would or not. If it doesnât then the answer to that question is really my answer to your question.
I think its important to point out that Rexxus & HWS are the Platinum Server for Empyrion as far as I know. He may very well have insight and awareness about the game Iâll never achieve and that I am not seasoned enough in empyrion or HWS to really understand what is going on - because to be honest I donât understand all the changes. My playtime on HWS has dropped by 50-75% because I donât really know how to get into it anymore. Maybe the changes will slow down or I will eventually figure it out and find my groove again. I hope so.
As always thanks for your questions.
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Hey Skard,
Thanks for your input, but it is inappropriate for this forum thread. It sounds like you want to provide feedback directly to Rex - could you DM him instead of posting here? So far, you have not helped Rex with his question of - what should the block limits be? But, if it is indeed you do not have enough experience to comment effectively that is okay too - just please post these irrelevant resposnes in a separate thread.
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Comments like these are sad attempts to belittle others and also quite off base. The only thing anyone has done is point out that anytime Rex has brought up that he is implementing a change that is THE ONLY TIME YOU GUYS SHOW UP ON THE FORUMS. No one said your input is not welcome, we just want to see it as more than a knee-jerk reaction to changing something that youâve grown accustomed to.
@Skard, you talk about meaningful changes, the forum regulars only want meaningful changes and are constantly discussing that, when not playing the game. They donât agree on almost anything and rarely agree with rex either, they are hardly his White Knights trying to boldly defend him against the trolls that have surfaced. I donât like Ranzeth much in game, he talks allot of trash and deserves most of the hate he gets, I donât agree with him on most things on the forums, but on this topic he and I agree that block limits wouldnât be a bad thing for certain playfields. Now which playfields and how many blocks I think we see a bit differently.
Instead of trying to slander others why not just try to discuss the topic. Donât just automatically throw out the concept because you âdonât want to have to rebuildâ youâre gonna have to rebuild when an ally has a falling out and gives away your BP to your enemy or youâre having a bad day and roll when you should have strafed and die to lucky splash damage, etc. Itâs an Alpha game, just discuss where the comfort zone would be so that we can come to a consensus otherwise Rex will decide for us come 8.0.
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Honestly, class sizes are fine its weapons and their damage and aoe size that would be a better way to handle this. Double every single weapon on every structures damage right off the bat and double the hp of all base blocks turrets and components. Leave sv hv right where they are other than doubling the damage. And ideally modify artificial mass blocks into an armor block for hv with more hp than sv blocks. (note: when i say doubling damage that is a combination of rate of fire, aoe size, and strait damage)
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Thatâs not something Rex wants to do, and for good reason.
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Getting further away from vanilla is not avoidable if there is a goal of achieving a finer balance for pvp.
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Personally I think doubling damage on everything across the board is a terrible idea, but letâs explore that for a second.
Now suddenly BAs fall significantly faster and SVs and HVs reign supreme over BAs 100% of the time. You create additional problems to fix one.
EDIT: This is also why everyone told Rex no to him wanting to also increase the max bases per faction to 5 while also implementing block caps.
Lets half SV and HV block HP instead:
Now turrets on BAs tear through the layers of armor like itâs paper.
An idea has been presented that is a pretty decent idea and most people are willing to discuss the idea that is presented and try to come to a consensus on where a good middle ground would be for these block limits and what the best playfields for these limits would be. Nobody thinks the limits should be everywhere(actually I think there was one person that did think they should be across the board, something about core counts from too many varying builds for different playfields) just that in some locales it could enhance the experience for a wider audience.
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Iâve personally seen 25k garage ships, class 1. I personally built an 18k soaker SV last season. You need the right garage ship, and a good understanding of how class size is calculated.
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Was this using an Alien Core or anything that you canât get by building from the server without admin help? Iâm still playing around with builds right now and seeing what I can do with class 1 and with 3k-4k, etc. But Iâm only using things that you can actively build with in survival.
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It was using a garage ship. Not all garage ships are equal. The alien core just provides infinite fuel/o2. It doesnât increase block count so far as I know. The CV thrusters/RCS are what contribute greatly to the additional blocks. Less devices, along with increased thrust, and along with the right basic layout, will create a behemoth.
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You didnt read my entire post, and yes halfing hp on blocks would be similar except not halfing them on bases. Aoe size is also important for large ships. People like to have headroom to build and if ships are going to be big aoe should be larger than it is currently.
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