CB Destroy (Good or Bad?)

[mmetully]

@RexXxuS

regarding disconnects…

I am not understanding this

[RexXxuS]

Context again:

@RexXxuS

So my consideration is to remove the restriction for EGS recycle. Letting you recycle always and everywhere no matter who is near. (regarding disconnects…)

What I mean is just a “compromise”. cb:destroy for free and everywhere, always is not good. But EGS recycle lvl 5 is a compromise.

[mmetully]

snip
Sorry that’s a little too snarky for my tastes.

I feel like there is a concept of entitlement to intellectual property for vehicle designs.

I feel that this is an unhealthy entitlement and game mechanisms built around this will be at the cost of gameplay.

If this is the driving reason on the compromise for recycle being allowed for “in case of disconnect” situations… it’s being enabled for very edge case scenarios.

It’s only useful if:
the enemy can reach and core the vehicle without doing serious damage. and they should not know where the core is, and the cores right now are so strong that all blocks around them are destroyed before the core. floating cores are normal in husked vehicles right now.

*continuing…

[RexXxuS]

Perfect image! You see? Both need to pay to get their cars back

[mmetully]

It’s only useful if:(cont)
if it’s safe to approach the vehicle (not hv’s)

it’s easy to approach the vehicle (not sv’s in the air)

you are able to reconnect before the vehicle is cored

you are able to survive for ~2 minutes for hws connect to register your position to allow the recycling

you are close enough to the vehicle to recycle it in the first place

so… if the driving factor of the compromise is IP… my 2 cents is it’s not worth consideration. but I do not feel that players that take assets to pvp are entitled to any special protection of their work.

[TacoIsland]

I’m good with protection of blueprints at the play field level. A bp of a nearly intact CV/SV/HV is well more than worth the gold.

[Sayak]

Recycle with restrictions is cool. It prevents loot deny. Also it’s possible to make sv/hv that will be empty shell after destruction. Also this is war so stealing technology is common. Example Viktor Belenko. So egs recycling blocking you when there is enemy faction around (not your or allies) is perfectly fine. On the other hand cockpit snipes happen. So it’s possible to steal blueprint anyway.

[Fulgrim]

@RexXxuS

maybe you have some time and think about specifications for prevent players from blueprinting captured structures. Then I can ask Eleon to implement it code wise. Either for certain playfields or globally. Like PreventBlueprinting: True / False in the playfield.yaml. Then we could say for example no blueprinting allowed on Golden Globe.

That would be great. Maybe remove ability to blueprint stuff in PvP altogether?

@RexXxuS

cb:destroy was implemented in the past to give people a chance to destroy bugged ships like the ones in the red pole or glitched inside planets. Nowadays these bugs do not occur or under different conditions. But what you did instead was to use it as “self destruction” method to prevent others stealing your blueprint / prevent loot. For free. Yolo.

But TWO major things here I have decided:

In human history every war had these stories were technology and weapons got stolen. (for example in WW2 or Amys took rather the AK-47 in Vietnam than their own one). Good or bad doesn’t mater. I want to have this kind of feeling that you either protect it or don’t use it at all in PvP. Up to you.
Looting the others is part of PvP and taking this away by a “magical vacuum self destruction bomb” is not what I want!

Yes, for now bringing anything to PvP, you risk losing it. Both side blueprint and steal tech.
Magical vacuum to deny both BP and loot not OK.

While i don’t think Cb:destroy should be removed, as it allow for palyfield cleaning for those without recycle, i think it should be kept under limits.
My proposition:
-You must be within 25m of the structure (100m space)
-No enemy within 250m (2km space).

@RexXxuS

EGS Recycle level 5 should give you the special feeling of having a super global power following you (Elemental Galactic Services) you can call for help in any situation. It cost you but it helps you (like Lester in GTA 5).

So my consideration is to remove the restriction for EGS recycle. Letting you recycle always and everywhere no matter who is near. (regarding disconnects…)

I agree with this view, its nice RPG-wise, however it still may be OP without no limits at all, and the magic vacuum will be back.
Limits:
-You still must be within 10m of the structure you recycle (i belive this is active now)
-No enemy within 100m; 250m space - this should help with blocking the recycle of a base under atack, while helping recycle with friends near.

[Smally]

If u bought up to level 5 would u get ur money back if it becomes free to everyone? what about the donation to keep level 5 recycle?

[RexXxuS]

@Smally

if it becomes free to everyone?

Who said it becomes free? Never.

[Archangel]

I agree with some considerations:

1. NO MORE BP on PVP playfields, make it possible only in PVE areas, maybe put some Large spawning platform in PVP space like the one in ECC so if you want to spawn a bp you have to stay in PVP and risk your life(this will make pvp more team important with ppl defending and making the use of Deplyment Ship more important.
2. No BP on starter planets, this will make the start more challenging, personally i can leave the starting planet in 20 min, this is boring i think(and one more you encourage teaming up for building toghether)
3. Cb:destroy is useless, just remove the core and the structure will vanish in 3 h, otherwise use the recycle

Last, but this is my wish and i think will be not loved by many:
4) Remove the possibility of BP from ALL the server. maybe allow only the basic BP(the eleon one), this will make the game HARDER as HELL but it will take another taste. With this you will remove all the problems. You will open the REAL ship trading and there will be need of Faction skilled in engineering to build bases and Big capital ships. This way i think you will be able to allow BIGGER ships because they will be really ahrd to build. AANNNDDD your garege ships will be more appetible.

Archangel

[jaydog]

Cb destroy is good i use it

[Stunner666]

@RexXxuS

maybe you have some time and think about specifications for prevent players from blueprinting captured structures. Then I can ask Eleon to implement it code wise. Either for certain playfields or globally. Like PreventBlueprinting: True / False in the playfield.yaml. Then we could say for example no blueprinting allowed on Golden Globe.

That would be the greatest thing since Empyrion when this would be work. BP stealing is stupid. Some people build hours of hours ships and hvs then you had one DC and one stupid noob steals your BP. They should build their own BP or get some from people who want to share BP

1. Way one: Each BP has a creator. This can be seen in the statistics. This author should be able to set this BP via a switch, if someone can do blueprints or not. So if someone wants to get a BP from a structure, it just needs to be queried if it’s the same creator or if the BP was released. It would be perfect if these were of course coupled with Steam IDs. I guess that would be a bit of programming effort

2. Way two: I think an easy way to programm: Every Creator could make a Password for the BP. So if someone want to get this BP he must know the password. So creator could give his Passworts to everyone he is trusting. But! The Passwort must be harder than 1-9999. Thats crap. Perhaps a number of 6 characters with numbers or letters. Thats a really easy way to save his BP!

I would not do it different for playfields, that makes no sense. So someone could core a Ship and fly it into another zone and make his BP there… That sux. Save the creators creative time ! That not for other players!

But when a creator share his BP in (!public!) Workshop it would be free for all.

Every creator should decide for his own if he could looses BP or not! Thats their right!

@RexXxuS

cb:destroy was implemented in the past to give people a chance to destroy bugged ships like the ones in the red pole or glitched inside planets. Nowadays these bugs do not occur or under different conditions. But what you did instead was to use it as “self destruction” method to prevent others stealing your blueprint / prevent loot. For free. Yolo.

But TWO major things here I have decided:

Let it in game pls. good for performance. So you could destroy all that sucky crap on playfield wich sux hard.
But with the restrictions.

@RexXxuS

EGS Recycle level 5 should give you the special feeling of having a super global power following you (Elemental Galactic Services) you can call for help in any situation. It cost you but it helps you (like Lester in GTA 5).

So my consideration is to remove the restriction for EGS recycle. Letting you recycle always and everywhere no matter who is near. (regarding disconnects…)

EGS Recycle is good! so do it with the old restrictions! You have to pay much Credits and RP for it. so it must be better than CB:destroy! When you want to recycle a Structure when an enemy is near? yes why not its my structure! Recycle everythere with EGS LVL 5 is good. so you had to do something for it!

And yeah I love to recycle enemy Structures when they see it!

And pls kill that BP stealer They all are noobs! Not smart enough to build own BP Such nooobs…!!!
And then they still stealing BP they never learn to build

[Daddystu]

Dont often say this but I agree with absolutely everything Stunner just said

[Stunner666]

@Daddystu

Dont often say this but I agree with absolutely everything Stunner just said

OOOOOOOMMMMMMGGGGGGG ???
The world ends? ----> I have to do more pew pew fast fast!

[Daddystu]

Saved me the job of typing it myself

[aeonbug]

@RexXxuS

In human history every war had these stories were technology and weapons got stolen. (for example in WW2 or Amys took rather the AK-47 in Vietnam than their own one). Good or bad doesn’t mater. I want to have this kind of feeling that you either protect it or don’t use it at all in PvP.

On the other side of the coin a number of the technologies and weapons in real war have been rigged to self destruct in response to possible capture. In particular, wet ships and submarines are rigged to be scuttled rather than be captured - eg the German ships at the Battle of the River Plate, and the Bismark - both to prevent the British capturing advanced technologies fitted into the ships.

So there are cases of technology and weapons being captured and undergoing self destruction. We should be allowed the option of choosing the possible fate of our designs in the same way as in real life conflict situations.

[SwissSteel1]

I agree the ability to BP a captured vessel/structure should be removed. It should take some effort to reverse engineer a captured war trophy.

Instant BP and clone of a war trophy is too easy.

Instead, it should require the capturing force to examine, deconstruct to understand how it’s built — and if they want to replicate it, to have to build their version of it from the starter block up.

This would compare better with how it works in RL.

[Serious_Squirrel]

In the past capturing a BP sometimes showed people to be abusing major exploits such as Masago in 4.0 otherwise we would have never known. But wasnt this about cb:destroy? It has been used nearly every time We have killed another ship/base etc to deny us loot and that is the only reason it is used.

[TacoIsland]

You got plenty of gold don’t ya

But if there is a ship in question that is doing something illegal best let the admins inspect and dole out punishment as seen fit.

Since we don’t have the real need for cb:destroy how about doing away with it completely and using egs:recycle with the credit and RP requirements to recycle the vessel, or multi tool it by hand.

And disable BP completely maybe next season? The HWS garage will certainly be a lot more heavily used.