Cpu issues BA vs HV vs CV vs SV

HWS General Discussion
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Hey everyone,

So I have been doing alot of building in order to make sure my ships, HV’s and bases all work with the new CPU requirements and Im finding some issues with it to be honest. I could easily convert my SV’s to the requirements but found it much easier to rebuild them and found that I was even able to make them better, because it gave me a chance to work with thrusters and weapons more, I was able to build some really good ships because of this. I would have to say the same with CV’s, so in the long run I have no isses with cpu requirements for them.

However Im having major issues with the HV requirements, I cannot rebuild my current HV’s, even if i convert them to full carbon, I literally took all the thrusters out, the hovers, the steel blocks, took out 10gens, and 6 fuel tanks, which leaves me with 4 gens and 2 fuel, and anything that I can survive without. I still cant make the cpu limit, for the class 1 hv I have, take in mind this is a tank, so it has all the turrets as we all can agree its needed. anyways, with that said, I tried making a little tank, and even that is difficult. The whole idea of a tank, is for it to be well defended and able to attack a base, not necessarily win, but put up a good fight. Now take for a second, If three players used this specific tank, they could easily take down one base with ease, with no enemies in sv’s or hv’s, but when the enemies are around, ok its much harder but those tanks will put up a really good fight.

With that said, maybe the smaller HV that meets the new cpu limit could still work, possibly? Nope because even a current base of a class 1, around 1.48 still stays under the cpu limit for bases. Ok which base am I talking about, well one of our towers, ABN’s, and they are good as most people know, we use them everywhere, I wont give specs, not giving trade secretes here, but i can tell you the defense of the base is huge, and im not talking about turrets, the HVS will be wasted along time before they can get any decent shots out.

My current HV has a chance against our own bases or others, but a mini hv no frigging way. Let me give you all an example here:

Typical good HV’s have 20 - 25 thrusters all around except up and down of course, fuel tanks 3-6 and same for gens, take in mind some of these are decoys, RCS 100 - 120 and a bunch of other stuff like o2, medical ect. The typical block counts are around 4000 to 5000, of course every design is different, so they will vary but I think most can agree this is typical as some HV’s have been captured in battle, almost intact, due to kicks, dc’s, or other reasons. Anyways with this said, I compared three tanks, that have done very well in battle, all with similar specs and designs and the class is 1 and they range from 1.47 to 1.49, mine being 1.48, the cpu for the three is between 162k to 171k, but the cpu limit is 70k, how the hell can you make anything similar to this at all. The cpu limit will break these tanks down to the bear minimum, like 2 thrusters each, 2 gens, 1 fuel, and some of the turrets and barely any blocks, so literally no defense, you will have to rely on your shields completely how can you keep up a fight and take down the bases shields just to make a few strong hits, if you have to keep leaving in order to save your tank so you can keep fighting. Again take in mind, most current bases, towers, bunkers, ect, whatever you build wont have to worry about cpu limits as most are under the required cpu limit.

Anyways, with all that said, HV’s wont be good in a fight against bases, unless you have a large force,

SV’s will work, as I have been able to prove it in a creative server against a very good class 1 or class 7 CV, take in mind these CV’s weren’t even compliant with the CPU limit, they are currently working in HWS right now. Also the SV’s work good in a dog fight against current SV’s.

CV’s seem to work good to, cant have many extra gens, thrusters as decoys but they still work, basically you have to build what you need to operate the ship, so no real decoys at all, but still if you build them fast and light they work great.

Anyways sorry about the long message, Im hoping many reply on this, because if we stick with vanilla version of the CPUS, we may have difficulties. Let me know what you guys think

PS I am aware that there maybe changes to the CPU limits, and I think the best way to do this, is not to change any of the cpu usage on the devices, blocks ect, i think its best to change the cpu blocks themselves, upgrade them or add another cpu that increases them even more, I think bases are fine, and so are sv’s but CV’s and HV’s need improvement.

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The CPU simply spoils the game and pushes the players away. With the with new changes, it is clear that the developers themselves do not play PvP.

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I have to agree and disagree with this, the cpu obviously has its issues, but I got to tell you I fairly enjoyed rebuilding pvp builds and didnt think I would. As far as PVP battles in hws goes, not sure yet, I guess time will tell, But your right, the devs dont play pvp as far as i can tell and they dont seem to be promoting it.

I know some of us tried the cpu requirements on a pvp server and we all enjoyed it, but again it was just pvp, and mostly sv fighting

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With proper thruster placement these aren’t needed in such large numbers anymore. You could probably reduce that 100-120 down to 10 or less with proper thruster placement, possibly even down to 0.

Of course this means you are in for troubles as soon as thrusters start getting destroyed in battle.
To get the thrusters to generate large enough torque turning values they can’t be buried under layers of armor anymore though. They can still be buried, but the further from center they are the larger torque values they apply, so it’s better not to bury them.

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Oh yes im very aware of this, as I tried a few HV builds. even ones that agree with the thruster requirements in vanilla, buried or unburied thruster doesn’t seem to matter really, again were talking about tanks here, not just a basic HV that mines. with the cpu limit you cant build a tank.

Compare your idea with a base, it wont last, it needs devices to decoy or armor the tank up. Those RCS were perfect for that, you are right, thats alot and we shouldnt have to use that much, but even so bases are still the same, at least currently HVs have a chance to compete with them, but once the cpu kicks in, HVS wont last. Now if we allow CV’s on the planet, ok that will counteract the problem with the HVS, CV’s will take the blunt of the attack, keep shields down, and hvs will deal with the sv’s, other tanks and do the mop up of the base, but without cv’s, hvs wont stand a chance.

Dont get me wrong, im sure hvs will be fine as a defence for a base, but not good for attacking them

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The force of the RCS is weakened when away from the centre of gravity, not increased.

CPU is like another core, without it the ship does not fly, additional weak link in pvp ship, you forget it. You forget that when you destroy it, the ship won’t fly, it’s like knocking out the cockpit and the core. Die CPU ! CPU is the death of the game, online it will still show, think before it’s too late. Those who have tried CPUs on other servers no longer play for the future at HWS.

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CVs not a problem. 30K blocks combat steel with all trimmings including decoys sluggish in turning. 40K+ Xeno turns reasonably well, probably much bigger pure carbon
Svs I agree no problem but needs a different design. I’ve been using mixed hardened with carbon checkerboard, probably 60/40 carbon to hardened in 3K blocks
HVs if carbin I can get 7.5k blocks and all weapons, decpys, laser drills and silly thrust in all directions (40+Ms-1)Pure combat steel I’ve not tried but would be tight due to thruster requirements needed to shift the weight. 50/50 carbon to combat could do 6K blocks fairly easily I think.

I lack the experience in pvp to say if the above will work in pvp, but basically you can build similar GG/BH sizes as you can now. CVs turn far better than at their worst (one patch every CV turned like a snail, then next patch could turn on a dime).

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Good post @IgoSolo , but I think its not in time yet. Not all players understand yet the paint of cpu and why eleon put it in the game. Cpu bring very big changes in to game and gameplay , not only into pvp, they bring back not even old faults/bugs in to the game , but new as well. Some people try to fly using only keyboard, because you guys already find some not usual lags when using mouse. Even when flying whit jet pack in space around the base or poi. I’m thinking need cool down and wait little a bit. Wait when they make playable balance in pvp and fix some bugs. I scare to guess how long it takes. :v:

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i have tried building a few different tank designs. scrapped each one after lots of frustrations. it seems the CPU heavy RCS is still needed for an HV to have any kind of decent turn rate. from what i have gathered, the idea behind CPU is to replace the size class and block limits. can’t say which is better but as it stands CPU is not winning for hovers. the mass and cpu values need major tweaking all around. i think tanks will be best as unmanned drop sentries for now.

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I said thrusters and their turning torque, not RCS. With thrusters and turning torque you want then as far from center of gravity as possible to get the most turning torque.

Yes, it’s the opposite with RCS. I didn’t say RCS though

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https://empyriononline.com/threads/cpu-at-its-core.91881/

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I think you maybe right on that, some people have left at least some loyal players, but they didnt leave HWS, their just pissed off at these changes so much that they even commented on steam against and gave their first review since they started playing years ago, however they give alot of faith in Rex to find a way around this or at least improve it to make it worth while to keep playing. The loyal players who stayed will be the ones to inform them to come back when and if it gets better, the future of HWS empyrion depends on that, at least for pvp players.

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I do agree on your comments about how the blocks work out for Cv’s and Sv’s, but HV’s still have changed alot, when comparing to the bases will be, as they have not changed, take in mind, bases can still have all their decoys as before, but HV’s have decreased by at least half or more. again 162k to 171k cpu to 70k, thats a massive difference, when bases have nothing changed. this is a big issue, for many I would assume. Of course we can lower the base cpu, but Id rather not as it will also ruin the game play for pvers too

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I can agree that its not time, however not many will not play if this happens, im not concerned with bugs, we can keep saying bugs are the issue if we want, but at some point we need to think, what will keep us here, at least for pvper’s, i think people are tired of waiting on the fixes, and they dont want to hear about new bugs and new fixes, they just cant take it anymore. For me I think things have improved, and the bugs are not really causing me any issues as Im able to player better with less lag, converting back to vanilla the way Rex did worked, but we cant change everything, because it makes HWS what it is

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I very much agree and thank you for posting this as it proves my statement of this post, tanks are not going to work, unmanned will work though like u said, but thats only good for base defence

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Unfortunately the base CPU blocks cannot be modified currently (they are hard coded into the game) and the game also does not allow for adding custom blocks (custom CPU block as you mentioned) without Eleon adding it into the core game. Rex has also mentioned on a few occasions that he is following more or less the vanilla values. Some developers can get stingy when stuff breaks and you report bugs while running non-vanilla / custom settings. Also, bases still don’t recognize CPU penalties, so they will also be a bit buffed (and with shields).

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Yes this is very true. The issue with Eleon, this is not a “completed” game still flying under the alpha flag. I think they should not have such issue with custom values during this stage. By us adjusting the settings, it helps to fine tune the flow of the game itself and determine what they should be.

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Oh I completely agree with you in terms of us adjusting values that we ‘can’ adjust within reason. Allowing 21 laser drills and reporting terrain issues as it glitches isn’t reasonable. lol. Also, adding new custom blocks to bypass core mechanics, or somehow changing hardcoded settings should not be allowed. Guess we’ll see once the new season starts. :slight_smile:

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To be honest, my first idea wouldnt be to add a custom block, just tweak the cpu limit abit, something more reasonable that we can all agree with, test after test has been done with HVs, they just dont work, at least for attacking bases. And for what you said about bases not recognizing base penalties, well that’s new to me, so that causes a major issues if someone would use an hv to attack them. with or without the penalties though, it dont really matter as I mentioned earlier, the current bases dont have to change anyways, at least most of them.

Im thinking we need to look at Eleon’s perspective here, what are hvs for mostly, mining and attacking POI bases, correct? Well that says it, they are for attacking bases, and if they claim they are trying for more pvping then they need to make sure hvs work with attacking players bases. HWS is considered a pioneer for changes in empyrion, and I think were meant to show Eleon what works and what doesn’t and make the changes ourselves to where they need to be. I do agree though 21 drills is to much and its understandable that it just doesn’t work, perhaps just for garage ships is fine, but not for all players

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One other thing to think about with the over limit drills, multiple ships with max drills could cause the same lag effect as a lesser amount of ships with over limit drills. I remember mining expeditions back in 7.x where we would take several ships into a system to mine. There would be lag issues that forced us all to stop mining for a few seconds until the terrain would catch up.

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