Global limits? no warnings stuff keeps getting taken

======= NOTICE FOR HELP =======

What happened:
=> JVI craft repeatedly taken by HWS when no limits or rules are broken. just at random.
this has happened before and it was the faction system and planet not being discounted, but its still happening now. and we dont know why, no warning given. just happens at random. mostly hv. recycling other HV does not help. we are not at global limit. we are not at playfield limit, we are not at class limit, or cpu limit, we are not at alliance limit. its just ruining everyones fun for no reason far as we can tell.

Player(s) with issue:
=> all JVI

=> EU

Time (cb:time):
=> last occoured for me at 2322 server time, has been happening to multiple members everyday for weeks.

=> all pvp and sometimes pve, GG being the worst for it, iceworld and homeworld also.

Structure Name(s):
=> various

Structure ID(s):
=> id 22957699 , id 230133869, id 23013862, id 22686733 + others

How can we help you now:
=> these instances of hws taking our hv, lost us time, materials, deaths, cost us lots of time mid PVP fights!, disrupted mining operations and lost us profits:
We want it to stop messing up our game for us to start with.
its making it unfair and frustrating.
second, if it does turn out to be a bug, or a bad setting, then it’s not unreasonable for some sort of compensation for the repeated undeserved disruptions and losses we did nothing to bring about, we paid real money to be able to have a private planet and space to avoid this very thing from happening, so we haven’t been getting what we paid for, be nice for the guys to get some good will gesture to smooth things back over. at time of writing we only have 57 hv. and 23 of those are in our private space. our faction size is 69. we should be under the global limits even if we didn’t have any donor playfields, it just doesn’t make any sense, We’ve checked everything and double checked. HWS should not be taking our stuff like this, and yet it just keeps happening.
If its something we’re doing that 50+ people looking this over somehow missed then please let me know what we need to do different to stop this happening.

Edited: see my last post.

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We take one case as example and work with this for now.
@Jascha has to give more clues I think.

If our system has a bug, we of course do some Good Will compensations.
Everything before the 8th May for example was due a bug that Venture Prime was not set to “Prevent Global Limits”, even though I checked it couple of times. It is now however.

The only thing I don’t like here is that a “complaint” ticket was done waaaay too late. “Frustration” could have been spared not only for your players but also for us by making a ticket immediately!

Once @Jascha checks it technically we know more.


so about the structures:

23013862 - Wolverine
22686733 - Harvester

22957699 , id 230133869, id 23013862, id + others
–> I cant find these structures

F 09.05.2020 23:11:54 SERVER Empyrion You are only supposed to have 33 faction HVs on all PVP Playfields. You have 36. Please remove all other 3 HVs, or they will be taken the NEXT time!

So I checked right after that moment how many structures where still left in PVP and found the 36 in PVP. I will send you the list via PM.

So the system counts correctly unless you check the list and say that some of those structures clearly are wrong.

That the game does not send messages properly is a bug the devs have/want to fix in A12. But not much we can do (besides you using a discord channel :frowning: . since there the bug is not present )

The warnings where given for more then an hour before they were taken.

09.05.2020 19:31:06 Control_Faction_PVP_Hv Faction JVI
09.05.2020 20:21:17 Control_Faction_PVP_Hv Faction JVI
09.05.2020 20:31:21 Control_Faction_PVP_Hv Faction JVI
09.05.2020 20:41:23 Control_Faction_PVP_Hv Faction JVI
09.05.2020 22:31:43 Control_Faction_PVP_Hv Faction JVI
09.05.2020 22:41:46 Control_Faction_PVP_Hv Faction JVI
09.05.2020 22:43:34 Control_Base Faction JVI Golden Globe
09.05.2020 22:43:34 Control_BA_Alliance Faction JVI Golden Globe - A 22967671
09.05.2020 22:51:50 Control_Faction_PVP_Hv Faction JVI
09.05.2020 23:01:52 Control_Faction_PVP_Hv Faction JVI
09.05.2020 23:11:54 Control_Faction_PVP_Hv Faction JVI
09.05.2020 23:21:56 Control_Faction_PVP_Hv Faction JVI
09.05.2020 23:31:57 Control_Faction_PVP_Hv Faction JVI

Control_Faction_PVP_Hv is the warning for too many HV on PVP globaly.

I understand your frustration due to that game bug, but the limits seem correct unless you see a flaw here.

If its ok, lets close this ticket and go to the other one about refunding/restoring stuff.

Unless you see flaws in the system here still.

*edit I did not mark this issue as resolved, and if it was somehow then its purely accidental while trying to figure out how this forum works since we are forced to submit issues here instead of just talking about in a live constructive manner.

This issue is still not resolved and the thread is now locked. muting us.

I think the flaws in a system that automatically turns your own tanks bases and capital ships into instant enemies without warning, firing on your own people and killing your men, undoing hours and hours of work in an instant, frustrating tens of people, are pretty self-evident.

If you cannot give proper warnings, you need to disable that system. its game breaking, its making people not want to play anymore. The Empyrion game engine can handle hundreds of thousands of cores in the same server now thanks to the dynamic loading, we could not have 30000 stars all with planets all with poi otherwise. prehaps consider removing this obsolete mechanic, which is clearly left over from the time before the dynamic loading was added to the game and you needed to watch how many cores in total there were, there’s no need for global limits anymore, you already have playfield limits for gameplay balancing.

we have 69 members. 33 hv is not enough to cover our needs over the current playfields, there are just too many. and you want to in a12 increase the number of playfields thousands of times over? the global limits are incompatible with that vision. at least in their current iteration if not altogether.

Mods are supposed to make the game more fun, but these older ideas and mods are showing their age, they now work to neuter the games experience and frustrate people, adding nothing positive.


Had the same issue on Eton.

Spawned a Class 0.70 Tank. It got taken by the server. Spawned another one and that got taken and killed one of our members…

Decided to place an HV Detector on the planet that was a mere class 0.09. That got taken too…

This is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous!!!

Yesterday when we were organizing our tanks, despite us being well WITHIN the PVP limits of Tanks, 2 of them still got taken and killed our members without NO Warnings!

This system should be either fixed or removed completely. Too frustrating and its making people not want to play.


And lets not forget that our Proxy Logs got broken and we have made do without them when everyone else has them…

That’s a completely different issue but I feel like we are getting gimped at every corner.


It is pretty … for getting Harvester or Towers (HV) gets taken when your mining. It hurts the defence and starts getting very expensive. I was lucky that it doesn´t destroyed my gold harvester lasers(garage one), while a other harvester would be taken by mining. If we get attacked and a harvester gets taken it is a sure loss of ressources.
After been taken we can destroy a SV too while destroyin/cleanin the taken HV.

I am just happy it didn´t took the gold harvester until now…

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You marked your post as solved but let me say one last thing about it.

I totally get that it’s frustrating and I know the best how many don’t like HWS or rage quit HWS, because of those limits.
It’s also true that they are “old” and some features might need a revisit of usefulness and integration.


  1. You mix Alpha 11 with Alpha 12 to justify your points. Not good.
  2. I warned you tons of times to not wait with those tickets, because I exactly knew that all of you guys are coming out of your cover and blame us NOW. If you would have raised a ticket *immediately we could have solved it much better and faster. But well, maybe the point is delivered better now at what cost.
  3. You don’t seem to understand how our Global Limits work. If you say 69 members and 33 HV are not enough, you forget that half of your faction is not active anymore. And the limits only consider the last 7 active days into the limits. So no need to exaggerate here. :slight_smile:

You miss the bigger picture here and assume with half knowledge that everything is technically obsolete and useless.

But DSL (Dynamic Structure Loading) is NOT working as it should. It wasn’t implemented 100% right. Right now it works like this:

  1. first player enters a planet and only gets the structures loaded within his sight (DSL range)
  2. second player enters same planet and gets HIS structures loaded within sight AND the structures from first player
  3. third player enters and gets structures from his sight, and from player 1 + 2.
    And so on. This cumulative DSL system becomes in MP almost useless in a PvP fight with a lot of players, where after some time everyone gets the structures loaded again, as in Alpha 9.

Last but not least, “adding nothing positive”, what do you think will happen, if we have no limits then? And what do you think happened around HWS 3-4, after massive players complained and rage quitted HWS, because we had too many structures, playfield crashes and rage comments in foreign forums, that “HWS is unstable, can’t handle a lot of structures”.
Maybe some remember our “Peacekeeper” Orbits? How they crashed all the time and we had to wipe them?

We always react on actions (look at our plenty rules…). And those limits fixed those negative actions.

Either way, all I’m saying is that our goal is to NOT frustrate players intentionally here!!
A bit more understanding behind everything is just needed instead of blind rage and ignorance.

HWS 12 will change a lot and basically challenge everything to its maximum.
I will carefully think and try, to lower limits, lower taxes and make the gameplay on HWS as enjoyable as possible for everyone.
Still, we can’t forget that thousands of players leave their mark on the software and hardware performance in HWS.
And it is a fact, that human kind need limits. Otherwise look what happened to our planet Earth.
Or dare you, if a business man can’t use his private Jet anymore to travel from Berlin to Munich, 600km within 30 minutes… those limits would totally ruin his life right…

TL;DR: we are all looking and working on HWS 12. We will evaluate what struggles the players the most and remove/improve those.
In regard of compensation go here please:


To be clear, I don’t consider any of our current outstanding issues as resolved.
And I have to point out a few issues with your response, and thank you for unlocking it again to allow me to respond.

alpha 11 is over now. its run its course and pretty much everyone is just packing and tieing up loose ends now, a12 should be the focus and referance frame of all discussion on empyrion really from this point.

You did also tell me you had taken a quick check and spotted that you’d made an error with our faction planet that it did not discount the cores against the global limit as its supposed to do, and then said you’d fixed it, we didn’t say anything else about it, didn’t ask for any compensation, just thanked you for looking into it without having to raise these frustrating tickets, and moved on… then you tell me its happened again and our faction planet again is not discounting the cores there against global again causing the problem of our people getting mowed down for no reason mid game. we didnt ask for anything for our trouble, we thanked you and moved on…then it started happening again. now peoples patience is being tested. people start to leave the server as broken.

how can we be expected to understand, when the server does not warn us?? theres no visual message, warning, or indicator, no audio, nothing. they just suddenly go HWS and start shooting us.
you have to try to picture how that looks from the perspective of someone trying your server out for the first time.
they just leave.
thats not JVI’s fault, our “active member” figure changes every single day!
mostly because people stop playing on HWS after encountering issues like the ones we are discussing here. there’s multiple forum posts on here where people have told you they hated some of the more cluncky strict and punishing HWS mechanics but stayed because they loved the content JVI provided for them, we do our best to make this fun for people but we’re now constantly running into these issues and its undermining that effort and that doesn’t make sense because we all have the same goal here, to make it fun.

It’s a shame that you can make something with a hundred systems that work perfectly and then the whole thing gets derailed by just one or two of those systems being a bit messy. You do deserve lots of credit for the parts that do work,

The global limits dont do anything to help with your all 3 of your points there, those all relate to playfield limits, which we are not in disupte of, JVI thinks you have got the playfeild limits set up extremely well, and you can tell it took effort and experiments to find the right balance on each playfield. the global limits, are just arbitrary when you have playfield limits. and having the global limits tide to a dynamic figure as well as having no warnings is just cruel from the users perspective, and will be so x1000 when the number of playfields starts exploding everyday. there’s several much less annoying ways to get the same results.
best to nip this in the bud before running into it head long next season and getting a million tickets about it from every faction out there that goes beyond their back garden.

we are not saying to have no limits of any kind, as implied in your reply, we are saying the playfield limits, are enough to overcome the practical limitations of the game engine, so the global ones are just punishment now, I know you say DSL isn’t working 100% but it is work 90%. just not playfield to playfield. global is fine.

I do not, that’s before my time.
was it before DSL?

I hope you do not take any of this as rage or ignorance, this is just honest creative feedback from a group of users that even at ‘33 active members’ (we have many just waiting for the game and/or server to improve to the point they can have fun on it again) , is still the largest user group you have on the eu server, but that doesn’t matter, all factions are effected by these things, we don’t know if they all also lack the warning though. no hate here and its nothing personal. Our favourite server is broken, and we want it fixed, but it seems like we aren’t being heard, that’s all it is.

The best compensation would be just to have this issue fixed forever.

Hoping by the first few weeks of a12 all this nonsense is just a distant memory. Best of luck with it.

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Thanks for your clarification and message.
Just quick:

I only talked about DSL but in terms of global limits I have to mention the overall performance.
The more structures are in a playfield, the more performance it requires. Can be seen quite good on the current EXP Atlon planet.
So if we would not have global limits, then each playfield would have a lot of structures, cause everyone is maxing out the playfield limit.
If now, in A12, 40+ playfields are open at the same time, you are back at the drawing board.

Again, we have to test it out. I’m just saying the global limits are not really arbitrary as you might think.

Yes, it was way before.

No, I get your point and I’m fine with it.
For the future I just ask to point out issues in the forum right away.
I appreciate your attitude to “not causing more troubles” but if I get months later a list of “you fucked up, there and there and there and there” then it feels quite bad.
If I make mistakes (or well, it was a tool bug, but nevermind), then I want to correct them - here and now. :slight_smile:

That is what I’m talking about. For HWS 11 not much we can do anymore.
For HWS 12 there are tons of fixing, be it proximity logs, chats or other struggles.

Nevertheless, as you said, the best feedback and help you guys can give, is to point out issues once HWS 12 starts.

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