HWS 6.0 | Teaser Road to Release | Elemental Bank (EB) & Orbital Auto Miner (OAM) | Part III

HWS Announcements
, , , ,
32

I thought about it and decided then to push the credits value even more instead.

The important thing in first place is: good player can leave MP starter planets in any way faster than beginner. And because people don’t read or like to complain we can’t set starter planets like what I did with the SP Scenario Dawn of Galaxy the Maiy Orbit start - insane hard.
At least not yet - where people need to get used to 6.0 first. Not everyone played the EXP before.

However that does not mean that you can chill at the starter planet. Or that your magnesium will help you to survive :wink:

It is really difficult to balance and we will see if you like it.

1 Like
33

Yeah I dunno, I feel like starting with ingots vs without ingots, a bike, and breathable atmo is like night and day. It changes it from having to legitimately worry about survival to just breezing through the first half of the game. I did the Mercenary start on Dawn of Galaxy, I didn’t realize there was a harder starter planet? I also did a Hard start on Ningues in survival which was pretty interesting as well. I even died a few times as I left my stuff in the farm, thinking it would be safe, while I went out to mine some ingots on foot. I came back at night and was surprised to see the patrol CV passing by over it, trying to shoot me down if I got near it. The heavy suit actually makes starting easier because it holds so much more o2.

The way I see it, ppl will always find something to complain about. I don’t really ever recall many ppl complaining about Empyrion’s difficulty, just mainly about the long term grind and lag issues. The crowd for this game is already pretty niche, why dumb it down for the casual who will probably leave the server after 5-10 hours regardless? ppl start getting bored after a month or two anyways so why let them rush through half the game’s content in the first day? The survival aspect of this game isn’t anywhere near the difficulty of a hardcore survival game like say, The Long Dark. If ppl didn’t like hard games, then Dark Souls wouldn’t be so popular :slight_smile:

Maybe traders can access AM if someone wants an easy start or put up a poll and see what the community thinks. Worst case, you can turn AM back on if ends up not working out, but I think only mostly hardcore players will be on the first few days. Or maybe require 5 hours played on the new patch before AM opens back up.

34

Players, most of them are stupid, and do not sit in a little research on the game that will play, usually do not follow what happens in the experimental and when he gets official they fall from parachutes in the game and then they cry all the time , I’m always on the experimental and one thing that people forget is that in most servers the initial planets are pve, that said, it’s very simple to survive, just make a foundation on the creative that uses rocks and cement as material, and Item in greatest abundance in every game and many no longer know the cement blocks are stronger than those of simple steel, hence I think why make a metal base ,? This is usually a player error that does not understand enem knows or research the game, I even modified all my bp initials from pve bases to cement, and you can build gigantic bases with that and then just substitute for stronger blocks, our base In the guardian starter was totally cement and nothing else … and in lvl 5 you already do the tower to defend the base and most of the most basic items of a functional base from there survive is easy …

Now a direct question to my comrade rexxus, will there be egs posts in the playerfield starter eg an npc in the outpost in the orbit? And also we can have sale in npc egs of auto miner core? Costing many CRs and also Rp with a limited amount and a random recharge time to avoid camping over the recharge schedules

35
  • EGS zone on starter systems - nope. But more than 1 in the universe for sure
  • You can sell everything in the Elemental Blackmarket
  • Different EGS zones = different RP buy prices
36

So the most ideas are very good I like it. But this gonna be to much. This would like WOW where I must farming 2 hours and more for Dailys. This could be very fast sucky when its to much! I think the new RP System costs time enough.

And who farms 150.000.000 Credits for EB lvl 5 and its gone after 2 Months??? nobody!

The Autominer are not too much. There some resources and now we must fly to EB to take them out? nope then i dont use the Autominers^^. And for the 1% Interrest to EB every day and every and every day could be sucky too. I think there is to much that I must do if I want or not. I dont want dailys, they are stress.

I like my perfekt english :joy:. I hope you guys understand what I mean :smiley:

2 Likes
37

It’s not so much the price for level 5 EB as it is the time it takes to unlock rep, farm credits, and then the limited season.
I broke down the pricing and found it would still be very lucrative to purchase a level 5 EB. With only 30 days of 5% interest one could amass a small fortune.
But then what? What are you going to spend hundreds of millions of CR on? You can’t take it to the next patch, nor can you purchase anything worth while.
If 10 people came in w/ 70 mil, bought level 5 EB, and stacked CR for about 45 days, they could actually buy OCD 7. 7 billion credits, 700 million payed back to the investors, and that’s it.
Without anything to buy with all those credits, and no way to carry them over to the next season, there is no real incentive to purchase something like this.
Here is a link to the spreadsheet w/ some precalculated info.

And as far as the new autominer system, :weary: Without the ability to target a specific ore type, they are virtually (pun intended) worthless. Who could possibly remember which one you bought first? Autominer cores as fuel seems outrageously expensive.
You will see in the spreadsheet above that using a level 10 gold AM, you can make 30k CR/day. That will also take 10 AM cores, which are not factored into the price. This will also raise the price of all the other ores if the economy uses a gold standard as its base.
But will the NPC traders prices change? I feel like these are good ideas, but very poorly executed. If AM cores are much more prevalent than in 5.0 this may not be a horrible system, so I guess we will see.

1 Like
38

Buy RP. Buying RP will get a 7000 multiplier end of seasons which will get pushed on top of the normal 250k keep credits… calculate yourself :wink:

I am sure after Jaschas vacation this can be made possible :slight_smile:
Stay tuned

39

W/ 5 people paying in 70 mil, and stacking interest for 45 days you can net about 1.4 Billion in profit.
1,400,000,000 / 77,778 * 7000 = 126,000,000 (about)
Even if an RP cost half that it would come out to about
1,400,000,000 / 38,889 * 7000 = 252,000,000 (about)
And that is assuming you have 2 people. One to hold all the credits, and send another person the exact cost of ONE RP. The person w/ all the credits would send the 2’nd person the exact cost of 1, person 2 buys, repeat. This would happen 18,000 times!

Otherwise that 1.4 billion would still only buy you (will calculate later) NINE RP (The first one would cost over 140 mil).So, yes you do get to keep some, but again, to what benefit?

Ok, so my math skills are a bit out of date but I think I did this right. This is actually the formula for compound interest, just reversed.

1400000000 * (10^-1)^X) =1
(1/10)^x = 1/140000000
log((1/10)^x = log(1/1400000000)
X * (log(1/10)) = log(1/1400000000)
X = log(1/1400000000)/log(1/10)
X= 9.146128

And if I did it right it confirms that you will only be able to buy NINE RP. So without exploiting the system, which I am assuming is the point for the 10% interest on bank/player CR balance, you can convert your hard earned 1,400,000,000 into…wait for it… 63,000 CR! Where can I sign up for this deal?

So, to summarize, either two people need to exploit the system and do over 18,000 transactions to make 9% of whatever interest they earned. Or one person can make 63,000 credits from over a billion invested.

2 Likes
40

Thanks for all the hard work as always guys! I’m loving the changes.

The 70mil cap transfer after each patch will level out the playing field over the next few patches nicely, but for now some of us have a nice advantage :stuck_out_tongue:

I see a lot of people saying that eb level 4 and 5 won’t even be worth using, but your forgetting that 70m cap only comes into play on patch day, you can go way over during the season (confirmed already 90mil (Thanks to Thranir :])), so obviously you would use that credit to buy goods on market store in ocd and sell it afterwards to get that back over a few weeks and once you get over 75mil eb class 4 will make you more profit per day than eb 3 will if my maths is right and for eb 5 once your over 98mil you will start making more from that upgrade (70m+(70/2.5)).

So taking into account 70mil starting from start of season +1% daily, if you wait 18 days (almost 3 weeks) without upgrading any eb you will have 85.41mil which is the most optimal time to go from eb 1 to 4 which leaves you with 35.41mil (700k profit a day) which is the same as 70mil at 1% interest.

Another 52 days (almost 2months) and you will be at 99mil which is perfect for eb 5.

You will be left with 29mil and it’ll take you 18 more days to get to 69.8mil. Just to let you know how op eb 5 really is after another 2 weeks you’ll be at 138mil, the exponential powers!

Just for interest sake if the season was 4months long 120 days, then if you decide to stop at separate points then:

At 4 months/120 Days:

eb:3 Starting at day 1and 60mil : 181.2mil
eb:4 Starting at 18 day’s and 35.4mil : 266mil
eb:5 Starting at (18+52)70 day’s and 29mil : 349mil

At 4.5 Months/135days:

eb:3 : 210mil
eb:4 : 358mil
eb:5 : 726mil

To reach ocd 7 at (7bil) at eb 5 rates, it’ll take: 47 + 135 Days (182 Days/6Months)

To be honest eb 5 is really op if it drags on anyone owning billions is going to break the whole market for fun, I’d much rather have ocd 7 costing 500mil and eb 4 costing 20mil to upgrade with 1.5% interest and eb 5 costing 50mil to upgrade at 2% interest. At this rate ocd 7 will only be obtainable after 5 months on only the most persistent people. And obviously all these calculations are excluding all the expenditure and other incomes like gold mining, trade and lending/loaning.

If ocd 7 was meant to never be obtainable then rather nerf ocd 7 allow access on pvp but set timers to once per week for all factions, so it becomes one of those dire situational advantages and doesn’t break the game.

41

Your math is incorrect. You should look at my spreadsheet that I linked earlier. It could be a bit hard to follow, but all of this is there.
It costs 131 million to purchase EB 5. You can’t even save that much off of interest alone, in one season, starting w/ 70 mil.
You are also losing 131 mil to purchase it, which is 1.31 mil/day in interest in an EB1.
You also lose EB 5 at the end of the season, which makes it a total loss of that 131 mil.
EB 5 is only viable if at least 3 people invest in it. 131 mil to buy, and 70 mil (or less) to get interest on. 30 days of EB5 on 70 mil = 31.5 mil interest after subtracting the cost to buy it. 45 days = 357.95 mil.
Considering a season is only 60 days long, and it takes anywhere from 8-32 days to get 160 rep to buy it, and you don’t want to lose it by waiting til day 59, and you may forget to visit the EM one day, you are very limited to how long it will accrue interest.
And again, these numbers are after 30-45 days. So you will be playing the first 1/2 to 3/4 of the season with absolutely no CR at all.
And then what? Server history shows that the player base dwindles before a wipe. There is almost nothing to buy on the marketplace, no useful ships to buy from the garage, you can’t carry it over. It is honestly pointless to spend the time and effort and sacrifice the first half of the season trying to fill a bank.

2 Likes
42

My math is calculating different things to yours thou :stuck_out_tongue: I’m calculating % profit per day and how to keep that profit per day at maximum, it doesn’t matter how much you spend on upgrades if enough time is factored in.

43

If the EB didn’t wipe at the end of a season that would still not be true, but it would definitely help, exponentially in fact. But the fact is that EB is going to wipe at the end of the season, which completely destroys the profits.

44

Well its going to be a gamble none of us know exactly how long the season will last it could even be only 1 month long and then it wont even be worth getting eb 4, but I’m sure you can agree with me that 5% interest daily with another long delayed season will completely break the market.

Your calculations are a nice risk free way of getting the most out of eb without risking loosing anything if its a short season, mines kind of all in or loose everything type of thing.

45

EB4 isn’t even a viable option unless you put in 140mil for 45 days, and even then you only make 300k.

46

Please link your spreadsheet I don’t see it, and if you put in 140mil your getting (140 x 1.05 (5%interest)) 7million just from interest on the very first day don’t see how your only getting 300k I think your math is really off.

47

Just scroll up and you will see it, or go back to the main forum page and find Fancy Schmancy Spreadsheet for 6.0

48

Perhaps the fancy schmancy spreadsheet can also be turned into a suggestion for a better implementation.

Got better ideas? Share em!

49

It could definitely be used as a tool to help guide the numbers. I am in no position to make requests on this server as PvP holds little interest for me. I honestly don’t put much time in. I like to build ships and bases, do some trading, stack CR, and occasionally go shoot at somebody. Then you have @colin2cold who likes to shoot anything that moves.
The scrapyard/EG Recycle, credits/EB and AM all influence PvP and PvE. I can see how it’s tough to balance the system.
I hope that somebody w/ more insight than me can utilize the spreadsheet to benefit the server. It really helps one to see the minutia, and I have found some surprising stats by crunching the numbers.
I imagine Rex already has something similar.
Right now the biggest issue I see is trying to balance older and larger factions with new ones. Limiting CR carry over to 70 mil helps this. Large buy ins for the EB, Recycle, and AM help this. So once a faction overcomes all of the hurdles and gets all their ducks in a row, BOOM server wipe time. So all the time spent building the empire is thrown out the window. I know this is a beta, but it’s not much fun grinding the same thing over and over. At least to me. Either way I’m sure it will be fun. But I can honestly say that I wont be using the new EB, AM, or recycle (if the scrapyard is still around), in the current state. There is just not enough reward for the amount of time put in.

3 Likes
50

AM might be a nice way to store alil more than 70mil credits :stuck_out_tongue: since I’m not really sure 1 core is worth the little bits of ore you get from the am’s maybe just gold and penta, although cores might be a lot more abundant than 5.0.

51

I believe it is going to be both in NA and , if the interest ive seen is real, possibly also run in EU. Reins for the NA Scrapyard will move to an in game player, TBA.

Will have a look at your spreadsheet. Ive built many for doing market analysis in my trader days, could probably dive right into this and see how to leverage it for balance discussions. Thanks for sharing. :slight_smile:

1 Like