HWS 6.X.X Patch | Economy 2.0 | Tax 2.0

Yes me too.
Seriously guys: 2,5 million interest every day is MORE than enough. Getting gold is not only done by drilling but soon also via big Heist missions if you know GTA 5. But that is again discussions of things you don’t see in real action yet.
Slapping long term players? Wtf? You have the best server on HWS regarding OCD and keeping credits and what not.
Some of you are just greedy or ignoring the fact that what we are doing is a bonus, features you may like and use or not. You can also play the game without getting 35 million credits per day.
And if you donate or not is irrelevant if you had the support in mind what we appreciate the most of it.
If you don’t then spent it for something better but no reason to write it here.

Really disappointed. But I won’t write any longer to so such posts.

It’s fine that you “worked” for the economy. But taxes have nothing to do with the Economy. It is just again selfish or lazy habit of parking stuff where it should not belong to. Period.
Park it somewhere else and hug your economy further.
Especially rich people have all the possibilities to move elsewhere, right!?

I don’t know why you think parking on a place you do not belong to is translated to “meet”, “please” or “shame”. You know the price and it’s your decision to do it or not to do it.
In the end it is mainly good for the performance - for everyone.

Thanks for the formula suggestion though.
At the moment we made the interest with intention as a plain addition since the RP factor is after almost 3 month too high and the result will be the same - a too high division factor.

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Thanks for your reply Rexxus :slight_smile:
The issue i have is that the top -level cap has been continually lowered for some time now. What i’m about to say; i would like to emphasise is not me complaining or even wishing for these things back but simply me stating what has happened in the past:

We had the Gold AM nerf (which i think will be unanimously agreed as needed)
The AM nerf in general (Which also encouraged more -resource-focused play)
The AM fuel nerf to autominer cores (which i personally had a big issue with at the beginning but played through it and survived.)

Then there were the reductions that i do take issue with:
The 95% OCD level 5 nerf. Now i’m lucky to still have some OCD slots with over 50K of stuff in them from prior to the update. But a new player could never hope to cope with Old-OCD compared to new OCD. I know some of my fellow players had their OCD’s ‘Maxxed’ meaning that they had 500K on most/all slots. So all that has happaned there is that the bar has been lowered for the new players when they hit the top level.

EDIT: Now i’m not wishing for the OLD OCD back. I just always felt that a less drastic measure should have been taken at first. Like a 25% nerf per season to the OCD might have been less of a night and day difference that we had as a result. You were right to nerf it, but the way it was nerfed was questionable in its efficacy.

The biggest three issues i have are:

  • The high number of playfields (especially space) that are or are going to be taxed. [Specifically PVP playfields, i don’t have much issue with PVE being taxed].

  • The base tax being applied equally everywhere. Though i have a question on this: Are there/Are there going to be different tax bands on different areas? So a higher tax in a high traffic area in ECC and then a lower tax in say Peacekeeper East/West? As i feel there should be different tax formulas at work in different areas to simulate a real universe which is what i know you want to achieve :).

  • Third and finally the formula. Thanks for taking that into consideration :slight_smile: I certainly feel that it should be 1000*Devices+Player interest/RP as it encourages more RP play as a high RP player can reduce their total tax band. So even if it meant you might have one or two wealthy players still in ECC they would have had at the very least to had to buy RP or work for it like other players, making them vulnerable in space :wink:

Ahh just saw the bit about the RP, maybe it could be capped or instead of just /rp do /1/2RP or /1/3RP so basically Divide it by a HALF or a THIRD of RP maybe :slight_smile: But i leave that in your hands.

In regards to my earlier points about the punishing the rich i wasn’t necessarily talking about myself. I’m in the less than 70 mil club so i’m referring to those who are already rich. I just want it so that when i get to their level and when other players like me get to their level then we all share the same advantage :slight_smile:

EDIT: I will say i’m curious about this hacking feature though! Will it be like watch dogs where we have to drive our ship around following a rich dude as we nab his $$$? :smiley:

Anyways thanks again for the quick reply and the effort you put into the server :slight_smile: We may not agree on the methods but it’s still incredible what you do for HWS!
Huurah!
Wise

PS: Here’s an example of a tax formula that takes high RP into account: Private: Devices*1000+Player interest/0.5RP (or you could have 0.3RP or 0.25RP).

Hope that makes sense. The full sum would be DevicesX1000+Player Interest/0.5XRP X=Times.Multiply as * Was causing Itallics for me :stuck_out_tongue:

And that is after mega grinding 110m+ credits then after 2 months (If there’s even enough time for that) rinse and repeat…

I’d just like to point out that given those prices and limits on daily profits for the bank, you need 60 days to break even on the money alone.
Assuming you pay an additional 50 millions for the RP, you need 80 - nearly the whole seeason to even break even. And thats assuimng no tax will come over and eat YOUR WHOLE DAILY INTREST for a single ship.
Can’t see many people paying for it.

I don’t agree. Big factions that didn’t have the need of mining gold will go back to it, and gold won’t be in newcommers reach once again.

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I know some are still crying about our bigger nerfs.
And yes, maybe we could used a more soft method but seriously: even taking away only one slot would have been a drama session.
Some people are just complaining to have a reason to complain.
You have too low taxes is bad as too high. There is nothing in the middle.
You have too much stuff in OCD is causing overall inflation and taking away the thrill of losing something at all.
It’s always “bad” for some players, no matter what we do. Some are just complaining louder and more annoying than others which will cause even more frustration for everyone then.

Anyways I’m done with that topic.

Regarding your dynamic universe tax system:
sounds good but is at the moment quite a lot of work. It would also cause a shift of parking ships. A lot of stuff will be parked where it is cheaper etc.

Taxes in PvP isn’t that common now with EGS Stealth.

But I agree that RP should always be a big motivator to play on HWS.
Maybe there is something possible for Season II. Some ideas are still open.

Hacking… yeah… you will see…

Thanks for your understanding though.

Most of the players leave the server after 4 or 5 weeks because they got aimless. If u have a filled high level OCD, you got aimless after 2 weeks.

They doesnt build, they just spawn from blueprints. They don’t have to collect resources. PvP is almost same every day. You can’t do this if u don’t have tons of resources in OCD.

@RexXxuS don’t confuse our frustration and feeling of been kicked in the face for crying. The bottom line is we don’t feel you value us long term players.

How about some Loyalty bonus. Something like every 100 hrs 10 mil max 70 mil. Or even 100 RP for every 100 hrs. Just something that makes us long term players feel that you value us.

What about this for an idea then :smiley:

If PvP orbit will be taxed make it only tax if your 15km or further away from the planets and no tax if your closer than that, this way if you want to play a bit dangerously you can avoid the tax and if you want to be safer you have to suffer the tax, a bit more balance and even better than that would be that tax increases the further away you are so you can choose moderate safety at 25km away with a much smaller tax than 40km for example, since anything passed 40km is basically pve.

I like the bank changes but I feel a bit of a buff for new players could be more money is kept after full wipe maybe 10mil kept after full wipe for eb 5, I have a feeling if it stays as is most players wouldn’t even upgrade to 2 it wouldn’t seem worth it, the interest having a limit is a great change and I agree 2.5mil interest per day is plenty.

For the tax formula what about: (A Formula that doesn’t have such a huge difference between 0 and 4 rp (4 X difference in cost) and instead have it more gradual)

Logic:

(All Devices * 1000 / Members) + (Players Interest) As base price

Then reduce it more gradually as you gain more RP so the difference between 0 RP and 255 Rp isn’t as huge as it is now, tax would probably cost a lot more on avg but the 1000 can always be lowered to decrease overall tax uni-formally.

Having the Players Interest as part of the base calculation will allow players to park in taxed area’s without always having a negative income but rather a reduced income. For Places where players shouldn’t park the Players Interest can be placed at the end like Rex had it, but I feel that should only really apply to ECC or if a planet is Getting super overloaded.

For ECC
( ((All Faction Devices * 1000 / Members) / ((Rp / 40)+1) ) + (Player’s Interest) (No matter what a player will always be loosing money by parking here)

For Pve
((All Faction Devices * 1000 / Members) + Player’s Interest) / ((Rp / 20)+1) Normal Tax for living on pve.

For Overloaded Pve Playfield
( ((All Faction Devices * 1000 / Members) / ((Rp / 40)+1)) + Player’s Interest x 2 Loosing more than 2 days worth of income for staying on an overloaded planet.

For PvP
For Distance to Planet < 15km
Tax = 0

For Distance to Planet >= 15km but < 40km
((All Factions Devices * 1000 / Members) + Player’s Interest) / ((Rp / 10)+1)

For Distance to Planet >= 40km
((All Factions Devices * 1000 / Members) + Player’s Interest) / ((Rp / 20)+1)

Edit: Forgot about stealth -_-

Hmm, im too busy IRL to try to take time and fully understand this all. But even without it i can say this.
I never payed taxes on HWS, even in RL i payed lowest possible amount, so i dont care much.

I tried to read OP to get a picture about change, but it was just many letters jumping in front of my eyes, so i gave up.

All the HWS features are about 1000 years in front of base game already, since 6.x.x i had one fight, it was nice and smooth until i realised it just looks like that and is somehow weirdly lagged maybe even more than before, while the same BP of SV from some reason stoped to be able to fire missiles and that was last time ill try to play this seasson.

Are you guys really worried about taxes? Im not as i wont have anything to be taxed if Empyrion will work as it works for me…yeah, salty :slight_smile: hope ill be concerned about taxes one day too, for now i have bigger fishes to fry.

@RexXxuS no reply to this post then? You might as well cancel the bank levels.

Not true thou did some ninja mining last night on planets full of hostile bases not 1 death ":stuck_out_tongue: Cheap and sneaky >> you may say i’m not a new comer but i’m level 14 char atm with a 1k iron ship and 0 guns xD so yea, definitely possible if the new comers are shown how.

I love certain aspects of the changes but I feel the numbers could be tweaked to balance it a bit I suggest something like this.

EB Bank Level 1

1% interest
cost: free (everyone starts at bank level 1)
you keep 250.000 credits after a full wipe
interest limit 10.000.000

EB Bank Level 2

1% interest
cost: 20 RP and 2.000.000 credits
you keep 500.000 credits after a full wipe
interest limit 20.000.000

EB Bank Level 3

1% interest
cost: 30 RP and 5.000.000 credits
you keep 2.000.000 credits after a full wipe
interest limit 30.000.000

EB Bank Level 4

1% interest
cost: 40 RP and 15.000.000 credits
you keep 4.000.000 credits after a full wipe
interest limit 40.000.000

EB Bank Level 5

2% interest
cost: 50 RP and 30.000.000 credits
you keep 10.000.000 credits after a full wipe
interest limit 50.000.000

1 Million interest per day is plenty in my opinion.

Thanks. Will re-calculate couple of things and probably adjust.

But then you’re hardly a newcommer, and you’re pretty proficient with guerilla tactics. Can you say teh same about half the server thats flying around with barely presurized ships? :stuck_out_tongue:

Its plenty depending on what you need… But then again, look at the time to break even on this… its not really worth it to upgrade your bank unless you can make up for the price in max 20 days.

I think they are just not reading that bit @Fulgrim maybe we should have to NOT upgrade the bank levels every wipe that would make it sweeter.

Your break even logic is lacking of couple of methods.
Maybe you take your old interest break even logic here what is not valid anymore.

Anyways I updated the first post after some calculations. The main reason of this change is easier to get for new people but not straight achievable by keep 70m donators at the same time. Also boosting the value of the levels even more by skipping two donation options.

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:slight_smile: yes I understand what your saying but why 20 days 3 months is 90 days if its profitable after only 30 days of getting Eb 5 then its still worth it without being too good. Putting more income into active gains like missions and heists is a lot more healthy than afk methods, but yes at the same time having some passive that you worked hard for providing you with a reasonable income without being over the top is great too, but the active income should always be > any passive.

At 2.5million interest per day active missions would have to pay at least 500k credits per run (Assuming its 1 hour long run) thats 5 hours worth of active play from a beginner - avg player to catch up to end game passive gains.

At 1million interest per day active missions would only need to pay 200k per mission. If you still feel 20 days is a more balanced time of investment pay offs then having eb 5 costing 20mil will make more sense than earning more per day, since inflation will stay low and that 1 million will be worth a lot more without the beginners that have nothing feeling that they are super far behind.

I think better is:

EB Bank Level 1

10% interest
cost: free (everyone starts at bank level 1)
you keep 250.000 credits after a full wipe
interest Limit 5.000.000

500k interest per day.

EB Bank Level 2

5% interest
cost: 20 RP and 2.000.000 credits
you keep 500.000 credits after a full wipe
interest Limit 20.000.000

1mil interest per day.

EB Bank Level 3

1% interest
cost: 30 RP and 5.000.000 credits
you keep 10.000.000 credits after a full wipe
interest limit 100.000.000

1mil interest per day.

EB Bank Level 4

0,5% interest
cost: 40 RP and 15.000.000 credits
you Keep 15.000.000 credits after a full wipe
interest limit 250.000.000

1,25mil interest per day.

EB Bank Level 5

0% interest
cost: 50 RP and 30.000.000 credits
you keep 50.000.000 credits after a full wipe

More PvP on GG and more Gold faming, lower Inflation.

Didn’t even think of this, my only concern thou is at 2.5mil profit per day how many hours of gold mining would be needed to make that much, and if it is too much it might be an idea to lower the 70mil donator option along with cost of bank levels by the same multiple to keep that balance but decreasing the gold mining time needed to achieve that same passive income. Sorry if i’m being a pain in the arse xD

@Fulgrim I have a feeling you would know the best, how many hours do you think it takes to mine 2.5mil worth of gold?

But I guess Devs could just increase gold mining speed to compensate. Arrg i guess im happy with the current values :slight_smile: Nice one Rex.

Edit: I’m being an idiot! I finally realized why you keep the % so high, gradual increase in income per level but at the same time we won’t be afraid to spend our money since we wont be loosing income by spending xD :slight_smile: that’s kinda brilliant Rex WP!

Thank you Rexxus.

I love this.