I have been a loyal donator for years. I agree that this makes donating to keep EB level almost completely pointless. I do not use any of the other functions enough to EVER make it worth it.
Bottom line, if these changes are implemented, my donations stop. Every season we’ve seen things nerfed more and more. I’m not sure about anyone else here, but I have a full time job. I can’t afford to mine 8 hours a day to try to save up for something that gets deleted every quarter. I’ve been saving for OCD 7 for several seasons and am only half way there. I guess I can kiss any hope of that goodbye. And now there were hints that OCD levels will get wiped soon. That just makes me want to quit playing altogether.
3 Likes
How is the keep 100m donation compensated?
With new eb levels that 100m becomes completely trivial & it was expensive
I agree to that even if i personally haven’t bought any keep credit cards yet (but I know a few who did). I would suggest to add them on top or something not to make them pointless on higher bank levels. But maybe there are also changes planned on those cards?
5m is reached with bank level 2 (cost 2,5m + 200 RP)
25m is reached with bank level 4 (cost 17,5m + 900 RP)
50m is reached with bank level 5 (cost 42,5m + 1400 RP)
70m is reached with bank level 6 (cost 92,5m + 2000 RP)
100m is reached with bank level 7 (cost 162,5m + 2700 RP)
Of course, the card levels are (currently?) permanent and the bank levels are not, so they still have a certain value at lower bank levels.
1 Like
Ok i’ve slept on it, and now I have some things to say, but buckle up as this is going to be a long post!
Contents:
-
The reasons Rexxus wants to change this.
-
The unique nature of HWS/Empyrion players.
-
Proposals for improving the system before it is rolled-out in 9.0.
-
Justifications for proposal.
Prologue/Motives for change. 1. Ok let’s begin: Obviously i cannot speak FOR @RexXxuS so this is just my opinion in WHY Rexxus is making this change 
: For a long time there has been a lack of constant progression on HWS, as one plateaus once they reach OCD 7 and EB+EGS Recycle 5. Understandably Rexxus wants to create a system of progression that lasts beyond this point. For reference people can find this thread here: OAM Balance Discussion A lot of our suggestions have made it into this sysem, yet I still have problems with it, i’ll get into that in section 3. Another issue that Rexxus is trying to solve is inactivity, however I believe that this is not as bad as anyone believes, and i’ll bring this point up again in section 2.
Balance 1.5. Moreover there is a fear of unbalance, and as Rexxus correctly pointed out that people can farm up-to 5 million per day with dual EB 5s, however I believe this to be a fallacy to consider the majority of the server doing this, I asked a considerable bunch of my alliance if they have banks on both servers, and all said ‘no’. We should look at the AVERAGE players and not the top handful to consider balance discussion, there will always be those people that (this is not meant offensively) try-hard it. I myself ‘try-harded’ mining 600mil worth of gold on GG over two seasons. However not everyone can play like this, as I will display in section 2.
Section 2. What makes Empyrion so interesting for me is the largely mature community that inhabits this server, we are mostly adults, that are reasonable, and not impetous (largely!) and as a result we get on quite well most of the time! However this also means that most of us have jobs, studies, families and rents to pay, this is a limitation as it reduces our overall activity, therefore making it a longer process to obtain the top EB/EGS/OCD levels. It took me two seasons to get OCD 7 yet many of my peers who had more time managed to achieve it in one, I was busy,therefore it took me longer. The Point I’m trying to make here is the importance of permanence (that features you gain do not simply reset per season without options to keep it, either via donations or otherwise!) Previously EB 5 would not be an issue if it reset, as it is vastly cheaper than OCD 7 to gain. In fact compared to OCD 7 EB5 was about 90% cheaper. Therefore it makes sense that OCD 7 remains permanent. However if EB price is to increase dramatically, then its permanence at least up until level 5 should be considered, with donation options to keep level 10 across the reasons, however to justify this level 10 needs to become far MORE appealing as i’ll discuss in section 3.
Section 4: Here is just a quick TL:DR of my ideas on how to fix some of the problems:
-
The new system is considerably more expensive, yet it will also reset per season, with 10 levels there should be optins to retain upto 5 for free (use of RP or other in game currency or just outright free no questions asked. whilst upto level 10 can be retained with donation options that are identical to ‘keep EB 5’ .
-
There is not enough of an improvement between EB 5 and EB 10 to justify the improvement, right now it is suffering STRONGLY from the ‘law of diminishing returns.’, if EB 10 will be 1000% times more expensive than EB 5 then it should at least be 500% more effective and not simply double what EB 5 is. I’ll go into this further when I look at the calculations).
-
Inactivity should not be punished, especially on a server with many adult players with jobs and families, for some of them EB 5 interest was the ONLY way for them to gain a solid income, also it should NEVER BE CONSIDERED ‘FREE INCOME.’ This one claim gets me quite angry! Aeonbug correctly pointed out that anyone with EB 5 has grinded for it, and the reward of 2.5mil interest was seen as very important, hence why I will change the figures to acknowledge this.
**Anymore issues I have shall be added as edits. **
SECTION 3. Ok now it’s time for some numbers: ALL CHANGES HAVE BEEN HIGHLIGHTED IN ITALLICS!
Level 1
Keep 2,5m credits after a full wipe => Free as default
Interest: 1%
Max Interest: 200,000, credits
Send money: 10% fee
Payin/Payout: 10% fee
Usability: 25% fee for globa, free if you visit the bank.
eb:cointocr: 10% fee
Marketplace Credits: 10% fee (if you buy items from HWS Marketplace not in the trading zone)
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 100 item (if you buy items from HWS Marketplace not in the trading zone)
Level 2
Keep 5m => cost 4m + 200 RP
Interest: 2%
Max Interest: 400,000
Send money: 9% fee
Payin/Payout: 9% fee
Usability: 15% fee for global, free if you visit the bank.
eb:cointocr: 9% fee
Marketplace Credits: 9% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 200 item
Level 3
Keep 10m => cost 10m + 300 RP
Interest: 3%
Max Interest: 600,000
Send money: 8% fee
Payin/Payout: 8% fee
Usability: 10% FEE for interest global, free if you visit the bank.
eb:cointocr: 8% fee
Marketplace Credits: 8% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 300 item
Level 4
Keep 25m => cost 20m + 400 RP
Interest: 4%
Max Interest: 800,000
Send money: 7% fee
Payin/Payout: 7% fee
Usability: 7% FEE for global, can travel to bank for free.
eb:cointocr: 7% fee
Marketplace Credits: 7% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 400 item
Level 5
Keep 50m => cost 40 m + 500 RP
Interest: 5%
Max Interest: 1.2million
Send money: 6% fee
Payin/Payout: 6% fee
Usability: FEE (5% transfer FEE for Global, FREE if you travel.) (eb:interest)
eb:cointocr: 6% fee
Marketplace Credits: 6% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 500 item
Level 6
Keep 70m => cost 75m + 600 RP
Interest: 6%
Max Interest: 1.4 million
Send money: 5% fee
Payin/Payout: 5% fee
Usability: global (eb:interest)
eb:cointocr: 5% fee
Marketplace Credits: 5% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 600 item
Level 7
Keep 100m => cost 100m + 700 RP
Interest: 7%
Max Interest: 1.7 million.
Send money: 4% fee
Payin/Payout: 4% fee
Usability: global (eb:interest)
eb:cointocr: 4% fee
Marketplace Credits: 4% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 700 item
Level 8
Keep 200m => cost 150m + 800 RP
Interest: 8%
Max Interest: 2million.
Send money: 3% fee
Payin/Payout: 3% fee
Usability: global (eb:interest)
eb:cointocr: 3% fee
Marketplace Credits: 3% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 800 item
Level 9
Keep 500m => cost 200m + 900 RP
Interest: 9%
Max Interest: 2.5 million.
Send money: 2% fee
Payin/Payout: 2% fee
Usability: global (eb:interest)
eb:cointocr: 2% fee
Marketplace Credits: 2% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 900 item
Level 10
Keep 1mrd => cost 300m + 1000 RP
Interest: 10%
Max Interest: 3million
Send money: free
Payin/Payout: free
Usability: global (eb:interest)
eb:cointocr: free
Marketplace Credits: free
Marketplace RP: free
SECTION 4. Ok, so before people start freaking out for me giving even MORE interest to the maximum bank level let me explain the numbers: To get that 3mil per day interest you must pay a total of 899 million, which is nearly TEN times the ole’ EB level cost, for a measely 500k improvement, i feel now that the final level is SOMEWHAT more justified. (Also 899 million is significantly cheaper than the originals proposals which totalled to 952 million, for a passive interest that was essentially 1/3rd of the one i’m offering in this proposal.
4.2 I also added more options for getting interest, increasing global interest for all to reflect our busy nature, however it comes at the cost of a transfer fee which is more punishing for those with less money.
4.3. I also tweaked the cost to reflect the significance of the improvement, to a large part I’ve made it more expensive oveerall in some places creating a more LINEAR and less EXPONENTIAL cost curve to make it fairer.
4.4 EB 5 and lower should remain across the seasons FOR FREE or an RP cost in my mind, whereas EB 10 should be maintained via donation options.
Ok guys, that’s ‘all she wrote’ tell me what you think of the proposals!
Best regards,
Wise.
4 Likes
My suggestion for adjusted values:
Level 1
Keep 2,5m credits after a full wipe => Free as default
Interest: 1%
Max Interest: 100 000 credits
Send money: 10% fee
Payin/Payout: 10% fee
Usability: visit the Bank zone
eb:cointocr: 10% fee
Marketplace Credits: 10% fee (if you buy items from HWS Marketplace not in the trading zone)
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 100 item (if you buy items from HWS Marketplace not in the trading zone)
15% Faction bank input tax
Faction bank withdraw tax 8%
Not able to withdraw/deposit in pvp
Level 2
Keep 5m => cost 2,5m + 50 RP
Interest: 2%
Max Interest: 200 000
Send money: 9% fee
Payin/Payout: 9% fee
Usability: visit the Bank zone
eb:cointocr: 9% fee
Marketplace Credits: 9% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 200 item
13% Faction bank input tax
Faction bank withdraw tax 7%
Not able to withdraw/deposit in pvp
Level 3
Keep 10m => cost 5m + 75 RP
Interest: 3%
Max Interest: 300 000
Send money: 8% fee
Payin/Payout: 8% fee
Usability: visit the Bank zone
eb:cointocr: 8% fee
Marketplace Credits: 8% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 300 item
11% Faction bank input tax
Faction bank withdraw tax 6%
Not able to withdraw/deposit in pvp
Level 4
Keep 25m => cost 10m + 90 RP
Interest: 6%
Max Interest: 600 000
Send money: 7% fee
Payin/Payout: 7% fee
Usability: visit the Bank zone
eb:cointocr: 7% fee
Marketplace Credits: 7% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 400 item
10% Faction bank input tax
Faction bank withdraw tax 5%
Not able to withdraw/deposit in pvp
Level 5
Keep 50m => cost 25m + 100 RP
Interest: 9%
Max Interest: 900 000
Send money: 6% fee
Payin/Payout: 6% fee
Usability: global (eb:interest)
eb:cointocr: 6% fee
Marketplace Credits: 6% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 500 item
9% Faction bank input tax
Faction bank withdraw tax 4%
Not able to withdraw/deposit in pvp
Level 6
Keep 70m => cost 50m + 110 RP
Interest: 12%
Max Interest: 1.2M
Send money: 5% fee
Payin/Payout: 5% fee
Usability: global (eb:interest)
eb:cointocr: 5% fee
Marketplace Credits: 5% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 600 item
Faction bank input Tax 8%
Faction bank withdraw tax 3%
Not able to withdraw/deposit in pvp
Level 7
Keep 100m => cost 70m + 120 RP
Interest: 13%
Max Interest: 1.3M
Send money: 4% fee
Payin/Payout: 4% fee
Usability: global (eb:interest)
eb:cointocr: 4% fee
Marketplace Credits: 4% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 700 item
Faction bank input Tax 5%
Faction bank withdraw tax 2%
Not able to withdraw/deposit in pvp
Level 8
Keep 200m => cost 100m + 130 RP
Interest: 15%
Max Interest: 1.5M
Send money: 3% fee
Payin/Payout: 3% fee
Usability: global (eb:interest)
eb:cointocr: 3% fee
Marketplace Credits: 3% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 800 item
Faction bank input Tax 3%
Faction bank withdraw tax 1%
Able to withdraw/deposit in pvp
Level 9
Keep 400m => cost 200m + 300 RP
Interest: 16%
Max Interest: 1.6M
Send money: 2% fee
Payin/Payout: 2% fee
Usability: global (eb:interest)
eb:cointocr: 2% fee
Marketplace Credits: 2% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 900 item
Faction bank input Tax 0%
Faction bank withdraw tax 0%
Able to withdraw/deposit in pvp
Level 10
Keep 1Bill => cost 400m + 500 RP
Interest: 20%
Max Interest: 2.0M
Send money: free
Payin/Payout: free
Usability: global (eb:interest)
eb:cointocr: free
Marketplace Credits: free
Marketplace RP: free
Faction bank input Tax 0%
Faction bank withdraw tax 0%
Able to withdraw/deposit in pvp
Changelog:
Adjusted RP prices to be more within the casual players reach
Made the costs a little bit more manageable
Increased the interest so there is passive income for those of us who want it badly enough
Made it have some drawback features like withdraw/deposit in pvp being disabled until upgraded
Made it have a tax on faction bank withdraw/deposit until upgraded
This is just a quick writeup so not sure how balanced/unbalanced this is. I think it’s fair though
1 Like
Hi HWS Community,
first of all I want to thank to all constructive and interesting feedback / opinion you shared!
Overall it really shows how “engaged” you are in the whole HWS community / system and share also your feelings here.
However, some comments have upset me the whole night about threats to leave the server, pay to win or refund of just made donations — such a presumptuous nonsense!
I often said it’s not final, a work in progress and feedback is highly requested.
Only few made actual suggestions…
Anyways, next time I will rethink to choose this type of format. It is for none good if not all details are clear.
There are few alternatives though because the universe can change all the time and my generous offer to prepare people to some changes are always in conflict.
About the EB rework itself I thought over it again. The proposed changes took me already a long time but I had couple of drafts prepared. For each “type” of gamestyle a different one.
While many claims here are just invalid or missing the bigger picture, in the end I need a lowest common denominator for the whole HWS Community.
If the community don’t like the more indepth gameplay and roleplay the game in general will move towards, I see if I can create a different version about it - adjusted to HWS.
So here is my second EB rework proposal (considered some of made suggestions too). Again with the intention to motivate active and loyal players on HWS. This proposal however is a bigger reflection of other implications.
For example that new players will highly boosted and decisions and teamwork of veterans comes to the foreground. But it also means I will rework some Commodity Trading ideas I prepare for the first proposal.
Anyways think about the changes below for a while and “calculate” — then let me know your feedback.
I only show the changes from the initial proposal
To stop legacy left-overs see first post again
Proposal 2 summary
While I highly de-valuate the “Keep credit” packages due cheap upgrade prices and each “Keep credit” level, get you very good started in the next season, it still requires from you to get overall knowledge of HWS regarding gaining Reputation Points. Casual gamer, yes or no. “Poorly made events”, yes or no. You have the chance to get 500 RP+ per week easy by doing missions or events.
And yes, PvP and PvE will get more RP gains in HWS 9.
The interest change however is as I said very subtle and decision based. Actually taken a bit from real life - the more money you have, the less interest you get (my bank works like that at least)
The 5m credits with EB lvl 10 for example are reserved for either a group of people with a high pool of money or veterans making full use of all HWS features (HWS Ingots inclusive). Only that way you can make use of the boosted 5m credits per day.
Please let me know your feedback about proposal 2, make constructive suggestions otherwise and please spare me with your totality opinions.
I am doing this for you and I want to make changes for reasons — not because I’m bored or only few requesting them. This is for the whole HWS Community.
Thanks!
P.S.: to people who don’t care about EB anyways: Hummel helped me with a pre-teaser for the next teaser 
7 Likes
From my calculations it looks a lot more possible than the first version you had.
Below you can see all levels with max interest.
You can thank rex, for the wierd numbers some of them have. 
If anyone’s interested in this tool check it out here ;D Economy Utility Tool
The tool will be updated the day before full wipe, so you can use with new EB.
3 Likes
I think that’s a step in the right direction, it gives the bank more worth to the player. I do think the RP cost should be higher, though, if your goal is to get people to play. Or, what if you introduced a weekly EB RP tax to maintain “standing” with the EB. Meaning people that aren’t getting RP or just logging in to do eb:interest and logging out will end up going down in RP. As eb level goes up, RP cost gets higher (but reasonable for a casual player to get).
4 Likes
I don’t think the lowest EB levels should have more RP cost. But from 5+ maybe a bit.
good work rex that make it abit better rp wize becase we wad be wating years till we had anoth rp
Yes this one looks fantastic to me, really nice! Much more balanced in my opinion than the first proposal.! However don’t take that as criticism.
I greatly appreciate the effort you are putting into HWS to improve and change and evolve the META. I love your proposal 2, i think it will be more pleasing for the majority and more rewarding over time! Thank you for all the hard work you put into this Rexxus!
Best regards
Wise.
2 Likes
Very interesting idea RexXxus. The interest percent actually goes down, but the max interest payout goes up. I like that. Like you said, EB 10 would not make sense for an individual. They would need 500 million to get the 5 million interest, but it seems EB 7 would basically be the equivalent of EB 5 now. You are still making us work for it, but it now has an obtainable and rewarding goal. Good idea.
I hope I was not any of the reason for you losing sleep. I admit, my first impression of the first idea was “Wow, he’s making the game entirely pay to win now.” But I really tried to see your point of view, and I thought about my comments before I made them. I am an adult after all.
3 Likes
Yes!
Having to possess the money to get interest is a good balanced.
Alt accounts will find it difficult to get that 2.5M per day without investing in them!
and that’s what this is all about - investing in the player’s future.
If you could, rexxxus, stop family share/CSW accounts from having two seperate bank accounts, that would be ideal.
Here is my suggestion for slightly adjusted prices, to compensate for the increased income!
Level 1
Keep 2,5m credits after a full wipe => Free as default
Interest: 10%
Max Interest: 250 000 credits
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 10 item (if you buy items from HWS Marketplace not in the trading zone)
Level 2
Keep 5m => cost 2m + 25 RP
Interest: 9%
Max Interest: 350 000
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 20 item
Level 3
Keep 10m => cost 5m + 50 RP
Interest: 8%
Max Interest: 500 000
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 30 item
Level 4
Keep 25m => cost 10m + 75 RP
Interest: 7%
Max Interest: 1 000 000
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 40 item
Level 5
Keep 50m => cost 15m + 100 RP
Interest: 6%
Max Interest: 1 500 000
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 50 item
Level 6
Keep 70m => cost 25m + 150 RP
Interest: 5%
Max Interest: 2 000 000
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 60 item
Level 7
Keep 100m => cost 45m + 200 RP
Interest: 4%
Max Interest: 2 500 0000
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 70 item
Level 8
Keep 200m => cost 60m + 250 RP
Interest: 3%
Max Interest: 3 200 000
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 80 item
Level 9
Keep 500m => cost 150m + 300 RP
Interest: 2%
Max Interest: 4 000 000
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 90 item
Level 10
Keep 1B => cost 250m + 500 RP
Interest: 1%
Max Interest: 5 000 000
Marketplace Credits: 1% fee
Marketplace RP: 1RP per 100 item**
Changelog:
-Increased the prices for the lower end upgrades.
-Increased the total cost to upgrade to 10. It will now take roughly 562 million to fully upgrade your bank account, while costing another 500 million to fully get your interest.
You will truly have to be at the top of your game to get this perk!
Rep points is fine, i thought that cost was just too low for the income you get. Though I must admit… 1 billion is a very big hill. Though, many have already done it, and within the season.
I guess if you provide a new income source next season, we will be fine!
I feel that only the truely brave would go past level 8, as it provides the best overall cost to interest ratio, but for those that do, they are rewarded by high passive income.
2 Likes
edit: after re-reading your post I am not sure if you are endorsing having only one account for both servers to maximize interest returns, or suggesting to prohibit the users from having more than one account… \
eh, anyone going through all that trouble of opening and closing steam accounts and loading and reloading hws, that is prohibitive in it self.
Don’t forget the RP cost is expensive, alt accounts will still need their own RP, which you cant send.
Pretty sure that you can make more money just with one active account than relying on secondary and tertiary accounts. dealing with all the logging and loading is very time costly, and as the old saying goes:
Time is HWS credits.
with RexXxus new proposal, it will be much more difficult to reach EB 10 on both NA and EU, so if you have separate accounts for EU and NA isn’t a big deal, in fact if you combined them, that would provide a bigger advantage. Because then you would not have to grind out or pay for eb levels on both servers.
(side note, please tell me fasgort doesn’t have family share accounts with EB 5 on both NA and EU 
)
[side bar]
just remembered that it IS in the rules that you cannot use family share accounts to gain a massive advantage over other players, so im assuming EB 5 on family share accounts would be an offense…
I am suggesting to allow a family account, but not allow said family account to have another bank account.
One player per EB.
So if you got EB 10, you’d have just as much passive income as two accounts would.
What we don’t want is someone getting 8 million a day because they have two family accounts.
like i said above, in that scenario, the RP cost would be prohibitive to make that realistic.
But not entirely impossible.
I suggest to everyone -
Let’s make it balanced now so it no longer has to change in future.
oooh… I was ready to make some suggestions, but looks like you were already on it, @RexXxuS. This Proposal 2 is very interesting… you even INCREASED the max payout, while decreasing the rate, therefore requiring a much higher working balance. It’s very… as you said, subtle. Hmm.
The only thing you have to make sure is, that once people do start reaching EB10 on one, then both servers, you are ok with them making 5M and 10M interest, respectively for reaching those milestones on both servers.
But I really do like that now, it FEELS more like an incentive for more playing, and not a penalty. I much more like my initial reaction to this proposal than your first. But I’ll still think about it more! Thanks again for putting all your thoughts and effort into this, RexXus.
1 Like
This season I liked to play as a single player mostly in PVE, with the odd travel into PVE as I wanted to try trading and POI raiding. Last season I mined to get OCD 6. I have no idea how players got OCD 7 in one season but regardless I have been slowly mining and buying gold to get OCD 7 as that is a goal for me. I think a lot of players want to get OCD 7 as an achievement so the commodity of best value is the gold ingot because you save them to make the 700 million over time. I like that it makes the game stretch on and gives you drive. there are lots of ways to get gold (raid or trade). maybe the higher bank levels you can buy gold from the bank?
so the higher level the cheaper the gold and larger the amount you can buy?
currently the gold ingot this season has gone from 350 to over 450 per ingot so gold is of great value if it can be tied to bank level i think people will invest in higher levels just to buy gold.
and banks will always buy low and sell high when it comes to gold so they would charge you more than gold converts to credits of course.
I think to buy gold from banks would help players get OCD 7 easier
Im good with the changes made by Rexxxus after all the bank is really a temporary storage of credits to buy gold or other commodities. Banks are a safer method than carrying credits on you.
the price of gold has a few factors determining market pricing.
- gg has less available gold
- more players are looking to save their credits in gold
Gentlemen, we’ve crunched the numbers. Credit to @Upgrayedd for the numbers.
This is for Rexxxus’s current proposal. You’ll get more returns but the ratio will be non-liner.
This is my proposal, with my numbers below. You can see that it has a more liner curve to it, with upper levels giving less of a return.
And for those of us concerned, vets will be pleased to know that with my proposal, you will gain additional ratio from eb5 upwards.
I think both are promising. Both have their cons and their pros.
Please discuss!
2 Likes