- In terms of manufacturing I’d let HWS market dictate the prices here, I don’t think someone should be rewarded to heavily for simply putting these resources in a constructor.
What is “to heavily” for you? 10% margin? Maybe 50%? Producing goods for others can depend on many things, for example how much you need, how fast you need, … Why not let the people decide what the effort is worth to them? I don’t know a reason why free market should not work on HWS.
Maybe your right but seeing how bad inflation is the interest should atleast be lowered to lets say 0.001. For example, 0.001 of one billion is one million. I think something like that might help. I think interest should be instant and not be typed in to get. In real banks you don’t need to call the bank everyday to remind them to give you your interest. And i think most people will like not having to type their interest in everyday or having to travel to the bank everyday in order to get their interest.
You can use my economy utility tool to simulate all these EB changes. Your numbers 0.001 comes from random guess.
Try finding real numbers.
I’m having trouble understanding what exactly the problem is that requires this drastic solution. How will the game be better with less gold and fewer resources available to players? As for inflation, have you looked at the price of resources in the HWS Marketplace lately? Right now there’s a big pile of Zascosium ingots on sale for 5 credits a pop - 5 credits. How much lower do prices need to go to solve this supposed problem you think is so terrible?
As a bonus question: if you can expect to get around 10-12 credits per ingot, let’s say 25 per ore, how much ore does a player have to buy to get their OCD to level 7 and how long would it take to mine this ore? Hint: It takes about 819,500,000 credits to get there.
This conversation has been really interesting to keep up with and I appreciate the input. Since we’re getting pretty far from the original post and the focus of what I’m working on as part of this phase of the project ill just ask that you guys be patient with the work I’m doing. It’s going to be a slow and long term project that works to emphasize gameplay and fun for HWS. I want to reiterate that we are not trying to build an economy simulator and instead want to focus on encouraging players to be an active part of the HWS universe across multiple paths a player could choose to take.
For me, the most important resource in HWS isn’t money or gold or ore, its a player’s time. We should value the time people put in to doing tasks by ensuring that the rewards are fair and there is balance.
I find comments about interest ruining HWS especially interesting because to me the interest is only percentage of an active players income potential. Here we are voting on an average player doing an average task being able to make between 500k/1m per hour of effort. An advanced player doing difficult tasks could easily beat that number then, I’m sure we’d all agree. So if an advanced player is playing the game a few hours a night and trying to make money then wouldn’t they be making significantly more than the daily interest? This is why valuing player time is so important: gifts from the game like interest gives some value to players who build up significant time in the game by giving them a little bit of time back. When I was a player at the end of last season, interest was less than 5% of my daily income when I dedicated myself to earning money. Meaning the game was giving me a 5% gift of time for all the effort I was putting in.
For other players who aren’t in big factions, can’t do commodity trading, can’t mine GG, etc, then interest is a much higher percentage of a player’s income. In that way, interest acts to level the playing field by ensuring that newer players are able to participate and compete in things that would otherwise be difficult for them to afford to get in to and helps cover losses they sustain while they learn. In this way, the game is gifting player time because the players can focus on or try things that are fun in game rather than grinding resources.
It’s thinking like this I hope we can get people to start considering. This isn’t about “inflation”. The basic cost of ores and goods is only one minorly important metric as long as the flow of resources is balanced and gameplay is rewarding. The amount of people who have final OCD and Bank levels is much smaller than most people seem to assume so the amount of near term “potential outflows” in the current playerbase is enormous and as we come up with cool things for players to spend money on that number will grow. Rest assured that most people are working on progressing along their path, not at the end of it. Although I haven’t seen the numbers myself, very basic math indicates there is not even close to enough money in the HWS universe for everyone to be at OCD 10 & Bank 10, therefore all resources are still scarce as long as their is a way to convert them to money and money is scarce because there is less of it than there are uses for it. This is another reason I want to steer the immediate conversation away from this topic. While it’s an important “big picture” topic, it’s not the most important thing to fix today.
Keep in mind that when I hit OCD 6 that if I had maintained a rate of $25m/day at 3 hours a day that it would still have taken me 136 more days or 408 player hours just to get OCD 7,8,9,10 on one server. Without getting to spend any time on fun stuff which I of course would want to be doing as I go
Finally, I really think most people either don’t want to learn or don’t know the options when it comes to making money in the game. I’d love to see you guys posting more tips/tricks on the economy as well as asking questions on the forums about how to do things. By getting a more solid set of economy masters in the game the community may find that some of its current prevailing assumptions are wrong or the right idea but off by a large amount. For example, I streamed my commodity route and posted it to YouTube but only a handful of people saw it. The rest of you may not know that you can make about $25m/hr just by following that process. As an Admin now I’m stepping out of doing things like that but I’d like to see if some in the community can step up and help share that kind of knowledge. You will have my support, that’s for sure!
I didn’t guess that number. I put it as an example of how low the interest could be lowered to help with credit-inflation which is a big issue, unless you haven’t read Rexxus’s posts. He is asking for feedback and possible solutions from the community. Rexx and the HWS team have done so much to better our experience in the game that the least we could do is offer some possible good ideas that might work. 
Perhaps you didn’t read Rexxus’s thread about the very big issue of inflation, Loki. Here is the link bro:
Nope, not happening. See my above points as to why bank interest is so important. ESPECIALLY for players with a busy real life, it enables them to keep their head just above water, and with all these new economic changes and price increases they’re going to find it even harder to carry on than before.
Let’s see what these new changes do to the current economic META before messing with anything else…
In a science experiment you have several variables. Independent, Dependend and Control.
To make sure that your science experiment is proper you only wish to change ONE variable at a time. (The independent variable, e.g Temperature). Then you measure the dependent variable (E.G Time) and your control variable is what you keep the same (E.g The quantity of Ice that you’re waiting to melt).
If you mess with too many things at once then A: We’re not going to know for sure which economic change is having the greatest beneficial/detrimental effect and worse still it will alienate lots of the newer and returning players as they will simply become overwhelmed with changes to both the wider economy AND HWS Features.
Fix the economy first, and if people still GENUINELY believe that it all comes down to interest (which to me is simply not true) then we can have a look in a few months time…
Best regards
Wise.
Apologies David i’ve just flown off topic as well it seems.
That’ll be my last post on Interest for now.
But I totally agree with you on this point:
It’s a return on their time and on their money, and that’s really important that we consider that different amount of players have different amounts of time.
We can’t cater to the most hardcore audience with the most time. Most of the guys I played with worked on the weekdays and only had weektimes or evenings to play, without interest there would have been far less PVP as we would have had to farm to buy/build things but instead we were smart with our money and invested it into the EB system which gave us a fair return and a fighting chance.
That does sound like a large investment of time but it reflects the sheer power of OCD7 in my opinion and how permanent it is. A lot of us gold miners spent a lot longer than that drilling out GG in the old days. That said, this is something that the skill tree could take into account and has been recommended in the past with ‘aspirations’ where people can get up to a 25% bonus to the RP and Credit cost of OAM/OCD/EB/EGS:Recycle with a significant skill point investment.
I think something along those lines might be being introduced in the future, but you’ll know more about that than me so I leave that up to you guys
In the meantime I think the current required time/money to reach those levels is acceptable. But that’s only my opinion and that’s coming from a big faction player and therefore all of our interesting conversations and fun times as an alliance kept each of us playing empyrion for longer than we otherwise would have done.
Best regards
Wise.
It’s ok! I’m not upset and it’s a really interesting conversation. I just don’t want to only be talking about this one topic. 
Inflation is not off topic to your post @h1myname1sdav1d. Inflation is part of what makes up the economy. Rexxus’s main concern seems to be about how the inflation is affecting the economy because of the type of economy model we have. We want to solve it to have a good, balanced, and rewarding experience for players. And as Rexx has mentioned players seem to leave, or get bored once they get to the status “Rich.”
And as you mentioned above were trying to find ideas from the community on how to deal with that. So trying to leave out inflation is like turning a blind eye to key parts of what makes up a good economy.
Let me say it a different way. We’re a really small team of mostly volunteers with a huge amount of behind the scenes work to do. I spent many hours today on a POI analysis for PvE trying to develop the framework for loot tables… We have a lot to do. It’s going to take a long time to work through the stuff I’ve outlined in the post. As I stated simply and then spent more time elaborating on, interest is not the most important or most immediate issue. It WILL be addressed. It’s just not the only thing and it’s not next. Also we’ve talked a lot about it here and on the other thread so I want to make sure we’re able to hit any other relevant topics here as well without sidetracking the whole thing to one topic.
So lets pretend you are getting the base 1.5 mil per day from EB 5. So 19x that 27 million per day. While I am saying that EB is ‘PART’ of the problem, I would say players earning 27 million credits per day the problem.
Here are a list of things that could/should be reduced:
Daily voting
Daily connect
Trading missions
RP gain
Gold Asteroids
Gold Crust (maybe just have like 2-3 red zones and no ninja minable crust)
EB bank (I love the system but we may need to look at a minor nerf to it)
Things that need a boost
OAM’s
PVP auto miner planets that rotate PVP/PVE like Armageddon did in 7.5x, 8.0, 8.5?
BASIC planets that can AM basic ORE’s and make players PVP warp to some of the ‘Medium’ rarity ones (Neo, Cobalt, Mag?)
AM T2’s or T3’s or even just T1’s so everyone can get a few thousand ores per day without hardcore mining.
These are just suggestions of things that would help the economy and get prices back to reasonable levels they are just meant as suggestions and I don’t mind more feedback or more ideas.
What prices are off right now and are they too high or too low? By most of the pricing guides I’ve been going by prices are too low.
Why is $27M/day too high? What’s your thinking?
Edit: from what I can tell the market is over supplied on many items, mostly what could be pulled out of deconstructing npc packages. This is why prices are low. Things that are hard to get from deconstructing like copper are scarce.
Edit 2: Example:
Components Magnesium Ore 24 906 1 967 574 79
Components Zascosium Ore 37 603 2 256 180 60
Components Erestrum Ore 21 401 1 284 060 60
All three of those are higher than the base reward of mining actual gold. I do not support a dramatic change of anything but a small boost with a small nerf might be all it takes to correct the course. Also I think of the changes I listed the community could vote on what they like/dislike.
Because that is hyper inflation. Season 6.0/6.5 most players made less than a million per day even the elites where not making huge gains (aside from the bankers who broke the banking system) Even by 7.0/7.5 only a few factions would be able to hold GG and mine more than 5 million a day and then we had to spend a lot of that on Ores to keep fighting (keeping the economy going by buying consumable products and putting money in the system). Then 8.0 came around and I admit I was part of the problem making the raider MK3 with 21 HV laser drills allowing players to mine 25Mil+ and forming mega factions that dominated GG so no more fighting. But even THAT wasn’t enough to break the economy. Why? Because HW had a rainbow crust that could be mined at great speed providing all the resources we wanted. It was still balanced even though numbers had dramatically inflated. Then the bank rework Mark 3 came out increasing the average person’s interest, and HWS voting, HWS connect rework, and NPC trading. Along with an increase in the cost of ammo, increased HP (shields) of ships so even more ammo is needed and a new ‘anti ammo’ Pent is needed in great amounts. Yet, homeworld has less resource crust than it did in 7.5/7.5x/8.0 etc. To best answer your loaded question as to why 27mil is to much I suppose it isn’t IF raw materials had come in the same amount of increase rather than stagnate and slightly decrease. Along with an increased demand due to needed more to outfit the same ships/bases/HV’s (they do require a lot more than they did in every season pre 8.0). This is the result.
Remove deconstructors from hws?
Decons – what benefit besides breaking the economy?
Yes i remember those days. However, i get the impression that this thread is more about making changes based on players feelings rather then what needs to be done to balance out the economy and to help curb inflation. Its like no don’t touch our unrealistic paradise economy. Its like they don’t even want to consider touching EB bank, Daily voting, Daily connect, Trading missions, RP gain, Gold Asteroids, Gold Crust. If your not even willing to be prepared to make any of these changes then why even have this thread?
As you mentioned Chap and as Rexx has been telling us the economy needs a big fix and soon. And the main problem is inflation which has to do with the current modal of economy that we have. But like Chap has mentioned these below need to be reduced. Their inflating the system:
I don’t think the deconstructors are the problem. Its getting something out of nothing thats the problem. LIke getting credits from nothing. With a deconstructor you’v got to do a decent amount of labor; like getting all these materials, moving it around, storing it, getting it, putting it in the deconstructor, using up your base fuel to keep it running, a waiting period of hours, days, and weeks to get the deconstructions done, and if your buying the materials for deconstruction from HWS Market your helping to deflate instead of inflate the current credits in circulation on the market. Because the sellers in HWS Market get only half the credits you spent on the packages. The other half is taken out of circulations. Also, reputation is used to buy so its being deflated in its entirety not just half.
But with these credits out of nothing its just about Eb:interest and here you go sir 1.5 million out of thin air no labor required thanks and come again tomorrow for credits out of thin air.
My name is Ranzeth, and I support this poll.