Right on!
To gain the stuff the UST was trading, the United Space Traders where fighting on Homeworld and other planets for the Ores.
Overall if you were to measure the amount of materials āfloatingā in the market/economy itād probably be going down not up due to wealthier players tending to go AFK over time.
Moreover your comment would suggests that you would be advocating for the nerfing/removal of key HWS features which I think is too much of an ask for something that in my mind is not that big of an issue to warrant such a āfixā in my mind, and even then I donāt think that your proposal is an adequate solution.
Best regards
Wise.
Actually you can as long as it is balanced. (based on current prices) The issue is cash into the system has increase every season since season 7.0 and Ores have DRAMATICALLY been reduced since T3 autominers became unusable for anything but trader missions. Pre 7.0 I was getting 7,000 ores per day per T3 AM. Throw down 30 AMās and the oreās where over flowing. Now? Ammo costs more ores to make and I have to spend an hours to get 10% of what I used to get. Mean while credits per day have sky rocketed. This will continue to get worse until either ores become more common or credits become less common or both. I will let everyone else decide the how, but we need to realize basicās of economicās first.
Our problem is to keep the quantity of money from being increased and its purchasing power from being decreased through inflation. - Ludwig Von Mises, page 20 https://mises.org/library/ludwig-von-mises-money-and-inflation
I believe that we must get ride of bank interest. Because the bank interest is not intended they way it is being used in HWS. Bank interest can only be gotten if the bank which you are storing your money in is actively lending your money to other players at an interest that benefits the bank. So the bank may loan you money for 4% interest and the person who is letting the bank loan their money gets a 1% interest back from the amount of money they have stored in the bank.
The current modal for interest in HWS is faulty and not how interest works. Some will not like it because they payed real money to get their bank level for a 1.5 million credits a day out of nothing; but the truth must be told at all costs to have any chance of getting out of this inflation mess.
Iād suggest a kind of Gold standard be applied so as to not just add credits from nothing into the market.
I disagree that we āmustā do away with it. I agree it is a part of the problem but doing away with something that has been a part of a working system for years is a bit extreme. One thing I havenāt mentioned that is also a problem is the insanely increased need for insane amounts of Pent. Also ammo stacks that are no longer 300ish and can now be 5000+ lead people to think more ammo is needed etc. The problem is multi pronged and I think subtle changes can bring it to be fixed. Like planets T3 AMās can be used to farm again, or increasing OAMās, or a decrease in voting credits, decrease in GG gold, decrease in asteroid gold, decrease in trading credits, etc. Small across the board changes could work as could a major rework such as increasing OAMās. There are LOTS of ways to fix the problem.
I see what your saying about increasing ores output but i think part of the reason the ores are not helping as much as before is because most people like me now prefer using carbon ships for pvp instead of ore ships because its stronger and more mobile. So Eleon or HWS maybe both messed up the ore market there. Not surprised. They may need to take some online Ludwig von Mises classes on economics. 
The Gold standard i think is best because getting gold means you have to spend your real life time mining it inside the game. Then the time and fuel spent with the process of converting gold into credits. While 1.5 million credit interest per day is just a commend: eb:Interest and poof inflating the whole money supply by essentially doing nothing.
- In terms of manufacturing Iād let HWS market dictate the prices here, I donāt think someone should be rewarded to heavily for simply putting these resources in a constructor.
What is āto heavilyā for you? 10% margin? Maybe 50%? Producing goods for others can depend on many things, for example how much you need, how fast you need, ā¦ Why not let the people decide what the effort is worth to them? I donāt know a reason why free market should not work on HWS.
Maybe your right but seeing how bad inflation is the interest should atleast be lowered to lets say 0.001. For example, 0.001 of one billion is one million. I think something like that might help. I think interest should be instant and not be typed in to get. In real banks you donāt need to call the bank everyday to remind them to give you your interest. And i think most people will like not having to type their interest in everyday or having to travel to the bank everyday in order to get their interest.
You can use my economy utility tool to simulate all these EB changes. Your numbers 0.001 comes from random guess.
Try finding real numbers.
Iām having trouble understanding what exactly the problem is that requires this drastic solution. How will the game be better with less gold and fewer resources available to players? As for inflation, have you looked at the price of resources in the HWS Marketplace lately? Right now thereās a big pile of Zascosium ingots on sale for 5 credits a pop - 5 credits. How much lower do prices need to go to solve this supposed problem you think is so terrible?
As a bonus question: if you can expect to get around 10-12 credits per ingot, letās say 25 per ore, how much ore does a player have to buy to get their OCD to level 7 and how long would it take to mine this ore? Hint: It takes about 819,500,000 credits to get there.
This conversation has been really interesting to keep up with and I appreciate the input. Since weāre getting pretty far from the original post and the focus of what Iām working on as part of this phase of the project ill just ask that you guys be patient with the work Iām doing. Itās going to be a slow and long term project that works to emphasize gameplay and fun for HWS. I want to reiterate that we are not trying to build an economy simulator and instead want to focus on encouraging players to be an active part of the HWS universe across multiple paths a player could choose to take.
For me, the most important resource in HWS isnāt money or gold or ore, its a playerās time. We should value the time people put in to doing tasks by ensuring that the rewards are fair and there is balance.
I find comments about interest ruining HWS especially interesting because to me the interest is only percentage of an active players income potential. Here we are voting on an average player doing an average task being able to make between 500k/1m per hour of effort. An advanced player doing difficult tasks could easily beat that number then, Iām sure weād all agree. So if an advanced player is playing the game a few hours a night and trying to make money then wouldnāt they be making significantly more than the daily interest? This is why valuing player time is so important: gifts from the game like interest gives some value to players who build up significant time in the game by giving them a little bit of time back. When I was a player at the end of last season, interest was less than 5% of my daily income when I dedicated myself to earning money. Meaning the game was giving me a 5% gift of time for all the effort I was putting in.
For other players who arenāt in big factions, canāt do commodity trading, canāt mine GG, etc, then interest is a much higher percentage of a playerās income. In that way, interest acts to level the playing field by ensuring that newer players are able to participate and compete in things that would otherwise be difficult for them to afford to get in to and helps cover losses they sustain while they learn. In this way, the game is gifting player time because the players can focus on or try things that are fun in game rather than grinding resources.
Itās thinking like this I hope we can get people to start considering. This isnāt about āinflationā. The basic cost of ores and goods is only one minorly important metric as long as the flow of resources is balanced and gameplay is rewarding. The amount of people who have final OCD and Bank levels is much smaller than most people seem to assume so the amount of near term āpotential outflowsā in the current playerbase is enormous and as we come up with cool things for players to spend money on that number will grow. Rest assured that most people are working on progressing along their path, not at the end of it. Although I havenāt seen the numbers myself, very basic math indicates there is not even close to enough money in the HWS universe for everyone to be at OCD 10 & Bank 10, therefore all resources are still scarce as long as their is a way to convert them to money and money is scarce because there is less of it than there are uses for it. This is another reason I want to steer the immediate conversation away from this topic. While itās an important ābig pictureā topic, itās not the most important thing to fix today.
Keep in mind that when I hit OCD 6 that if I had maintained a rate of $25m/day at 3 hours a day that it would still have taken me 136 more days or 408 player hours just to get OCD 7,8,9,10 on one server. Without getting to spend any time on fun stuff which I of course would want to be doing as I go
Finally, I really think most people either donāt want to learn or donāt know the options when it comes to making money in the game. Iād love to see you guys posting more tips/tricks on the economy as well as asking questions on the forums about how to do things. By getting a more solid set of economy masters in the game the community may find that some of its current prevailing assumptions are wrong or the right idea but off by a large amount. For example, I streamed my commodity route and posted it to YouTube but only a handful of people saw it. The rest of you may not know that you can make about $25m/hr just by following that process. As an Admin now Iām stepping out of doing things like that but Iād like to see if some in the community can step up and help share that kind of knowledge. You will have my support, thatās for sure!
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I didnāt guess that number. I put it as an example of how low the interest could be lowered to help with credit-inflation which is a big issue, unless you havenāt read Rexxusās posts. He is asking for feedback and possible solutions from the community. Rexx and the HWS team have done so much to better our experience in the game that the least we could do is offer some possible good ideas that might work. 
Perhaps you didnāt read Rexxusās thread about the very big issue of inflation, Loki. Here is the link bro:
Nope, not happening. See my above points as to why bank interest is so important. ESPECIALLY for players with a busy real life, it enables them to keep their head just above water, and with all these new economic changes and price increases theyāre going to find it even harder to carry on than before.
Letās see what these new changes do to the current economic META before messing with anything elseā¦
In a science experiment you have several variables. Independent, Dependend and Control.
To make sure that your science experiment is proper you only wish to change ONE variable at a time. (The independent variable, e.g Temperature). Then you measure the dependent variable (E.G Time) and your control variable is what you keep the same (E.g The quantity of Ice that youāre waiting to melt).
If you mess with too many things at once then A: Weāre not going to know for sure which economic change is having the greatest beneficial/detrimental effect and worse still it will alienate lots of the newer and returning players as they will simply become overwhelmed with changes to both the wider economy AND HWS Features.
Fix the economy first, and if people still GENUINELY believe that it all comes down to interest (which to me is simply not true) then we can have a look in a few months timeā¦
Best regards
Wise.
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Apologies David iāve just flown off topic as well it seems.
Thatāll be my last post on Interest for now.
But I totally agree with you on this point:
Itās a return on their time and on their money, and thatās really important that we consider that different amount of players have different amounts of time.
We canāt cater to the most hardcore audience with the most time. Most of the guys I played with worked on the weekdays and only had weektimes or evenings to play, without interest there would have been far less PVP as we would have had to farm to buy/build things but instead we were smart with our money and invested it into the EB system which gave us a fair return and a fighting chance.
That does sound like a large investment of time but it reflects the sheer power of OCD7 in my opinion and how permanent it is. A lot of us gold miners spent a lot longer than that drilling out GG in the old days. That said, this is something that the skill tree could take into account and has been recommended in the past with āaspirationsā where people can get up to a 25% bonus to the RP and Credit cost of OAM/OCD/EB/EGS:Recycle with a significant skill point investment.
I think something along those lines might be being introduced in the future, but youāll know more about that than me so I leave that up to you guys
In the meantime I think the current required time/money to reach those levels is acceptable. But thatās only my opinion and thatās coming from a big faction player and therefore all of our interesting conversations and fun times as an alliance kept each of us playing empyrion for longer than we otherwise would have done.
Best regards
Wise.
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Itās ok! Iām not upset and itās a really interesting conversation. I just donāt want to only be talking about this one topic. 
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Inflation is not off topic to your post @h1myname1sdav1d. Inflation is part of what makes up the economy. Rexxusās main concern seems to be about how the inflation is affecting the economy because of the type of economy model we have. We want to solve it to have a good, balanced, and rewarding experience for players. And as Rexx has mentioned players seem to leave, or get bored once they get to the status āRich.ā
And as you mentioned above were trying to find ideas from the community on how to deal with that. So trying to leave out inflation is like turning a blind eye to key parts of what makes up a good economy.
Let me say it a different way. Weāre a really small team of mostly volunteers with a huge amount of behind the scenes work to do. I spent many hours today on a POI analysis for PvE trying to develop the framework for loot tablesā¦ We have a lot to do. Itās going to take a long time to work through the stuff Iāve outlined in the post. As I stated simply and then spent more time elaborating on, interest is not the most important or most immediate issue. It WILL be addressed. Itās just not the only thing and itās not next. Also weāve talked a lot about it here and on the other thread so I want to make sure weāre able to hit any other relevant topics here as well without sidetracking the whole thing to one topic.
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