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I am new to the server, but at OCD 5, you can store a insane number of stuff. Pretty sure you can put enough combat steel in there for 5-8 PVP oriented CVs, and that’s just one slot… Then you could put 50k ore, 50k ingots…

In other words, I don’t get why anyone would be complaining about the current limits unless they are crazy hoarders.

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Totally agree and big times I cannot sleep or are stressed is because I try to find the perfect balance.
Now we can discuss the difference between balance and control but sometimes decisions need to make.

Again, people are free to come and go, I don’t force people to stay.
Especially when they don’t see the bigger picture.

If we talk about HOW make it good/right, than I think it must be limited:
Only factions with 10+ players
Only 1 BA + 10 HV/SV (10 HV+SV, not 10 that and this).
No CV at all. Space - PvP.

And u will got some reasons to think about WHERE live better.

Thats what I think about all this things, if u didnt want make them PvP after overlimit in cores. But I think, it would be the best suggesting.

Nori This is the thing I have been saying since it was announced. The only issue was that it was not how it started. 50k per slot is plenty of capacity, but on the other hand, when you were used to 700k per slot…

Heh would be better if

Amount of cores server can manage fine = x
y = x/amount of players max
z = amount of players per faction

Amount of cores allowed per faction = z * y spread across the galaxy if you use up all your cores on 1 planet you can’t build elsewhere :stuck_out_tongue: , will force people to clean up their mess before moving.

It could be good, IF we didnt have some server restriction per playfield. U got 5 cores per Player? Ok - I go and place them all in PvE playfield. Same do 90% of server. And? We got EPIC overcrowded PvE-systems, and mostly empty PvP. I think… it gonna be fail.

The problem wouldn’t be cores then :stuck_out_tongue: it would be that pve is too appealing / pvp not appealing enough shouldn’t force people to do things, better if it was in their best interest xD

Plants, even in Africa - still would be Plants. They interested only in housebuilding, and didnt care about server performance. So why server must be interested in them? I understand dat “wish” to have Base in PvE-zone. I rly want such too, bc dat shacked-space - its oversuck. But I also understand, that its not the main point, to play in MP. MP created for competitions between players, nor than MP-mode of SimCity… So why we must make so much stuff for plants - thats what I couldnt understand.

Lokiet,

What you don’t understand is that not every PvP interaction needs to result in your ship being destroyed or attacked. It is that way because the PvE players hide in PvE areas. PvP players want interaction with other players. We want to encounter other players and give chase if they run, or fight if they choose to fight. For example, what would happen if you were a trader running a load of materials from Ju to ECC and you were intercepted by two pirates. Suddenly, two guardian ships jump in to defend your ship and fight the pirates while you make your escape. That would be infinitely more exciting for every player involved than sitting on a PvE planet’s surface visiting auto-miners to collect ore and re-fueling them, refining the ore, then either putting the ore in storage until a buy order comes around.

The conversation is not about controlling players or how others play, it is about creating an interactive universe alive with content and activity, not stagnating because 90 percent of the players sit in the safety of PvE on a multi-player server and never interact with anyone else in the universe. I suggested in my survey that each origin have several “tasks” (think missions) that they can accomplish each day in play for reward. Each origin has a specific backstory that can bring the origins alive with activity. For example, a Guardian might escort a Trader from Ju to ECC. A Freelancer might choose to make a trade run, or loot traders along the trade route. Pirates may set up an ambush along the way, or hit the trader’s base while he or she is away. None of this is possible as long as there is the safety of PvE that allows people to hide/camp. Remember, not having PvE areas to hide/camp in offers you the exact same living conditions that it offers me. Having PvE areas to hide/camp allows you complete safety, where you never have to leave or do anything interactive with the rest of the server. While that might be fun for you it is not fun for me. I am talking about increasing the fun for everyone. Think about how exciting it would be for you as a PvE player if you were the Trader in my example above. Would you turn and support the Guardians fighting those Pirates? Would you run for the next system in hopes that more bloody Pirates were not waiting for you? From my perspective, something like my example is infinitely more fun that fueling and emptying auto-miners 24/7.

The joke suggestion rolling around my faction is that Ju should flip PvP just for fun to see what happens with all those bases sitting on top of each other, let alone all the Pirates patrolling the orbit waiting for campers to leave or arrive. Fun fun fun!

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PVP is broken. It is broken because too much time needs to be invested in learning/researching the “tricks” to build/use a PVP viable ship, vs one slip up easily = catastrophic loss. PVErs don’t leave PVE because they don’t want to be blown up in seconds or offline raided. It is THAT simple. Telling people to not use workshop ships is not an answer/solution. And neither is waiting till AFTER you’ve blown some noob up to tell them why their ship sucked (if you tell them at all), because they will most likely just log/quit/ pve turtle even harder. You want these people to get into PVP? Write up an up to date guide on pvp ship building, or link to an existing one, encourage people to look at it everyday. Overcome the knowledge gap and you’ll have the PVP you want. “get gud” and “learn the game mechanics” with no feedback and just childish drama only hurts yourself in the end.

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if space is easier to run then planets on the server… what about scrapping the planets (don’t scream at me yet) all together and having donator space sections toss up a general storage and construction star base class 4 or 5… for each faction and allow them to park there ships near there star base and keep it PVE I don’t know what the core count for a avg faction would be but you could split up each space so they don’t go over 200 on avg? to make up for the loss of planets maybe you could put one small pve planet with farmable stuff in the middle… that that group could take a SV down and farm…I don’t think people really care about the planet they are on as much as the safe place to hang out and regroup ect…

as for the Tax issue… Don’t allow any private structures doesn’t matter when a player can make their own faction of one and sit down on the planet… its kind of a pointless option… I for one would just make my own faction in that case and do exactly that… not solving your problem… your biggest problem with Taxes in general is economy you have to balance the incoming credits to match the out going taxes of a faction I don’t want to say easy but reasonable to obtain you could do this through missions I would imagine like daily quests or something

I am not sure my thoughts are helpful but if they are looking at the problem from another direction I hope it sparks some ideas

~Sev

Reading latest patch notes and details about game mechanics from devs or other players on the empyrion official site is a good start, the “tricks” that worked in 5.0 don’t in 6.0, the game evolve, most pvp ships are completely remade each patch.
You must play experimental versions to find those tricks yourself.
For example 6.5 experimental introduced homing flak projectiles wich were quickly removed, 115 m/s top speed for CV in some way (bug), decreased explosion damage radius against devices, decreased range of HV artillery. All these changes and bugs are important for your next build.
Once you get a decent pvp ship, you’ll discover it’s almost useless, unable to destroy other decent ships, always able to warp out.

My thoughts on the topic.

I actually don’t care if the season is 2 or 3 months however with the donation planets runing 1 season and the fact that you are considering adding another season donation in form of a donator space,while considering to lower the season duration, seems odd, it could even be seens as greedy.

Therefore it is a clear no to the donator space from my side,after all this is a game we allready bought, yes you have server costs and donations help for sure, but asking more then 100€ for donations space is just way too much ( at least in my opinion), maybe consider adding some other donation options that are under the 100€ mark.

Regarding the overcrowded pve playfields, well not much you can do there i guess, you can restrict more regarding size or number of bases and stuff but in the end the players need somewhere to put their stuff, so either you have to give them enough space to do so or force them into pvp playfields, which is both a double edged sword in some regard.

Regarding pvp, well cv pvp is just broken right now. However that is more of a empyrion design problem then a server problem, there need to be some fixes, regarding triangle count (so people stop building their whole ships out of pyramide because they have the lowest triangle count but the same armor value then a standard block), some weapon tweaks(damage, allowed number of weapons per class),maybe some speed tweaks based on mass etc. so you could actually build different purpose cvs instead of flying bricks, warp inhibitors or other means of disabling cvs so you can actuall loot them.

It is sad to see that cv pvp right now is just fighting till one person loses all weapons, then said person warps out.

Some balances regarding cv vs sv would be nice too, so you could actually use svs properly in cv fights.

The only other thing right now that bothers me is the golden globe. It is the only source of gold and it is pvp, which is no problem at all. However why you are not allowed to land there with a cv is beyond me, becaise right now you need at least 2 people to get down to the golden globe and away from it (unless you want to park your cv in pvp space), that is not regarding the big factions having bases hvs etc on the planet surface.

That restriction makes it furthermore very hard to organize an actual attack on said forces on the planet surface, because you would have to preproduce all hvs for an attack and bring down all ammunition with svs to load it then into the hvs on the ground, which makes such operations in the primetime nearly impossible,because you would probably be dead before you have even loaded half of your ammunition.

Other then that i like how everything else turned out so far. Hoping for a return of MOBA for the next season though;)

Keep up the great work HWS team.

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First, you keep talking about big picture, but haven’t painted any such picture. HWS is more like spaghetti thrown at the wall, than any cohesive idea. Guardians won’t do their jobs no matter what you do, because there is no tangible return on investment, they are not paid meaningfully to do pvp and obey the rules, so many became pirates, hunters or freelancers. Guardians are like the federation, or some noble people who aspire to a higher idea. This game has two sides to it, PVE and PVP, there is nothing noble about killing. In war, you gut your enemy the fastest and most efficient way possible, otherwise you end up with wars like what the United States fight, never ending and totally useless wars which cause only meaningless death (despite the efforts of the young and idealistic soldiers we recruit with the promise of college money, or from desperation of poverty).

Your hunters, are about the truest group besides the pirates out there. You cannot trust hunters, because they are in it for themselves… Which is exactly what a pirate is, only we code the hunter as a pirate because pirates were rebel guardians who didn’t play well with others and understood what it took to win. Again, Guardians are idealistic soldiers who throw thousands of lives away for their ideals, like any well meaning group and mask the fields of dead as being caused by the terroristic pirate.

Freelancers are most like traders, only Freelancers kill people and sell their goods, in this way they are a cowardly pirate who like the hunter is untrustworthy.

See how your emersion fails? You either have the PVE or the PVP, PVP being the idealistic fools fighting for a flag that doesn’t reward them, or cut throats and tyrants pillaging the sheep. PVE being traders alone, are a pointless group to join, as they cannot bloody anybody’s nose for bothering them. As a trader, you cannot take your faction with dozens of war ships and sit them over the enemies bunkers destroying them, wiping them from the land, along with their seeds, as to preclude their aggression against your people.

So yes, I am PVE, because PVP doesn’t carry risk, or meaningful gain. The system is broken and not fun to engage in PVP battles, and until they optimize the game to such a point that we can have meaningful battles of 20 to 30 players engaged at a time, with CV’s HV’s and SV’s battling it out at the same time, over someone’s BA, the system has near no hope of being fixed.

So please explain your [quote=“RexXxuS, post:24, topic:6616”]
bigger picture, [/quote] that cannot be seen by me or anyone else. I cannot stand being told that I am blind, when there is no one willing to or able to turn on the lights.

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First, you are trying to force PVP on PVE players, while PVP is still broken as a fundamental part of the game. If we could have battles between 30 or so players, I would be inclined to take part in PVP, but we cannot have some 10 to 15 CV’s engaging in battle over someone’s base, or blockading/attacking people, while they are supported by SV’s either in a planet battle over a Base and supported by HV’s. Because even with my 5ghz CPU, 30gb ram, 8 gb graphic card, the game lags like someone downloading porn. This isn’t because someone has a slow internet connection, it is because the PVP element of the game is fundamentally broken.

What you want, cannot be found on this game, not yet. Not on a scale that makes it fun for the PVE guy, who would counter you and should never be moving cargo without an escort of no less than five to ten CV’s to counter the lone pirate.

Further, once Pirate factions become so large that they can mount an attack of 5 or so CV’s, the size of which are able to mount every weapon, and have 2 plus layers of combat armor, they need to be called what they are, a nation state. CV’s are capital Vessels, not combat vessels, not destroyers (the mainstay of a fleet). Again, the origin system is broken too. A minor issue really, but one which negates your point, because pirates are nothing more than disallusioned soldiers who could not play well with others, and thus fundamentally are unable to form a nation. Thus the necessity to stop calling factions of players 5+ pirates and just call them nation states.

New way to suport HWS it is good idea. But +4 overpopulated playfields it is not good. Or make max 100 core per it PVE donator space OR! Maybe just make a little and usefull features like OCD (after 3 level for example) is donation per season?

And about PVE zones. I think it is a safety hideout, It is not a sandbox. So add restriction 1BA per faction only 3 faction small ships (SV or HV bouth). Add taxes. 1SV for recourses delivery 2HV for mining or maintance the AM’s it is more than needed. On one HV 5 ppl can mine! PVE must be like a hideout not a main base for life and mine toons of recources! Times of hand drilling is the long past! Now when we have AM’s you need only fuel it once per day and you take toons of res. Now we have PVE overpopulated playfields and ppl just jump between it. And now when we do not have jump charging time the just jump-jump-jump and they never be captured. Add taxex for this PVE playfield. The real problem is NOT PVP campers (WHAT campers? i can make another warp in 3 sec after previous).

P.P.S Devs need make a space stargate for a long travel. Only then we can catch some lazy trader with toons of gold when he go from one to another gate!

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@RexXxuS first off (and I said this before but again) I think you have an awesome server and you work really hard on it so thank you!

my biggest things I would want to change:
1- PVE vs. PVP: I think there are as many players who like to PVE as players who want to PVP on your server. I also know that even the hard core players love to live in PVE, otherwise they wouldn’t donate for planets :smile: . what happened in 6 though is you introduced a way from the get go for players to just go to Ju and camp there putting 20 AMs and get all common resources, then they only need a few of the other ones to get going which they can EASILY get off the market or quickly farming off hours. This means less people venturing in PVP area to farm. I love both aspects of the game and lots of players do. I think the best way to balance is that PVE planets should literally have no resources unless they are reward planets. Same applies to donater planets and all. I think 5 was better in that sense. now everyone just spams AMs on Ju to collect all these common resources and that makes it less likely they wanna PVP. Rotation is a good idea but in my mind should always be more frequent (daily) so that people don’t just pack up and leave on demand but it’s a little bit of trouble to keep setting up if they wanted to live there.
This way people have to meet up in these high resource areas to get resources.

2- There should be more things to spend Gold on beyond market trades. Ships is an awesome idea and I LOVE it. Make more things like that. more Bases / planet access / space outposts that cost credits to buy so people have a way to spend all that cash. I’m sure you can come up with tons of ideas, but some that don’t require coding are selling premium spots in game like the bunker you had.

3- OCD is perfect the way it is now. Anyone saying the nerfs are too much I come to realize is indeed hoarding haha. I did some math and you can truly store over hundreds of ships in there. And also with you introducing 3 of these, I think we’re beyond ok here. My only recommendation is that the OCD slot jump between 5 to 6 (also 6 to 7) should be a bit more, since you’re paying quite a bit and also balances for people not wanting to have multiple OCDs

4- OAM needs to be adjusted to mimic an actual AM in my mind. Having it take AM cores is perfectly fine, but they should gather a bit more resources. At their current state and the existence of Ju for example, they literally add change to me. The rare stuff of course I think are awesome since I can’t easily find a spot with rare resource to put physical AM on

5- Missions: MORE MORE MORE. these are awesome for having things to do while you’re not in PVP, add more PDA missions, events. Make these more challenging and more rewarding.

Now onto some “nice to have features” that I don’t think are Priority 1 but good to have

1- A way for players to steal OCD resources from another player. It could be done in multipled ways, but you kill a players, you get 5% of a random slot you choose. Or you destroy the core of their base you get 10% from a slot you choose. This way you enable access to this super safe slot since as it stands right now, since even the hardcore players are hidden behind PVE planets, it’s hard to get that super high end loot stored safely in their OCD. It could also be an event and winner gets 3% from a random slot, etc.

2- Solo optimizations :slight_smile: More mission focused on solo, more ways for solo players to get a chance at the game. For example a space with resources that only allows private ships and 1 per person. Factions may still abuse of course staying away from each other, but makes it more interesting for us solo players.

That’s it from me. Honestly I don’t get why people complain all the time, I LOVE this server :slight_smile: and while some things are not optimized for ME, I think there’s some balance that needs to happen and i’ll love with it.

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If you have ever played the game from Microsoft “Freelancer” it has these great missions for people who want to play a trader. They have cargo ships that can hold lots of cargo and try to dodge the raiders/pirates from system to system to trade ‘common’ resources in one area to another area where they are rare. This would be great to add for the traders, guardains, and pirates alike. It also had warp gates for ships rather than warp drives. This would dramatically change PVP, PVE, and everything, I think for the better. But that is my two cents.

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Like Gunslinger like to say: "Its BS"©. PvP broken only in game-core. Not in ship building. NA PvP faction, already place their old PvP-ships in WS.

This guide already exist on this Forum - Who need - would find. If u rly think its not so good, create Topic with all your questions about PvP, and PvP-players would help u. Im sure, some PKA even would give u some of their PvP ships for first time. Thats not a problem. Problem that people didnt MOVE in this direction.

No questions = no answers. im not interested in writing poem. Its waste of my time. I could only answer to someone, who rly need it. I think all other think the same.

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the space donation would be active for season II.
Where did I say anything about lower the season duration?? I just say we keep 2 month for now as it is already.

I know it is a lot and since it is voluntary(!) I hope people only do this with support and a team in mind!
If you have for example 5 people in your faction it is 30 Euro per person. Devided by 2 month it would be 15 Euro per person per month.
Always see the bigger picture.

Reason is performance and fun and exploit blocker.

Performance = smaller, less big thrusters, less overall monster ships
Fun = more fight and fly skills needed. More teamwork needed as you explained
Exploit Blocker = prevent dropping CVs on bases as distraction ammo soakers etc.

But maybe you mention this in the survey where I asked, if Gold should be available also on PvE or other ways.