If i understand it correctly, and i didnt read so much as its too much text, problem is that reputation is gained at every (amount of time) and ppl stays in Medbay “farming”. Just for staying online. Umm thats bad i think, wasnt it for doing something which is related to story faction?
Pirate for pirating, alliance for fighting pirates, trader for credits they make by trading and hunters for hunting.
Im sorry if im wrong as its like when i would be giving advices to surgeon how to do his job as i got lost in rules and stuff long time ago and i play rarly.
And i saw genitals on HWS Discord oh my Disturbing in morning indeed
Btw Tiny its game…noone is hanging you. Rexxx is it possible for players to get rep for really doing their faction jobs, and for that only, maybe in future, with new APi growing? As i was used to go shoping for 30minutes, not caring about game runing. I think it will be pretty hard to tell who had to run away to do something at home and who was afk farming, i know this from minecraft, its pain and real drama. Mom called son to make dishes and he stayed online in base full of farms. Or was it just his story? This is far from automatisation which you need to achive. Dont allow anything to be afk farmed, not by rules but by whats farmable. Just my experience.
Just my 2 cents…Good luck and less drama!
Btw Tiny if you did it at least a bit accept punishment and wait if Rexxx will be changing way how rep is gained in future, it probably means another hours of work…
That’s why an auto-kick is good not only to avoid abuse, but generally to have better server performance, don’t forget only one person even AFK is enough to activate a whole playfield with all the consequences with it and ressources taken from thje server. Most of games got that option to simply have better overall performance.
And for the auto reconnected macro, i just hope it’s only a “Tiny” part of the ppl on this server
I was assuming that Traders/Alliance were supposed to pay me to help them. But am I supposed to help them regardless because HWS is paying me ingame credits every hour? Is that what you mean by “doing my job”?
You right with playfield, thats very true. In minecraft its done many ways, plate next to piston, once piston take Steve down, Steve activates plate and that makes Steve goes up. Steve is moving, no afk. Same with water and so on.
It will be same here, press forward and go afk. This is Pandoras box whole afk stuff, lets not open it.
I mean currently there is not so many playfields and serve rshould be able to run when all palyfields are open. Everything is getting to complicated already, at least for me, simplier - better.
Does that mean that it is forbidden to stay medic bay or any afk is punishable? I mean, if I visit to feed the character it’s still a crime? And if I leave for half an hour to, say, take a meal?
Also, I didn’t see any notification of being punished for this (though I guess I was, judging from my RP change. Shouldn’t there be some e-mail/forum message for law/rule breakers? Or how should a player find out that they broke something and were punished? Chat messages are easy to miss.
P.S. I understand that it’s my fault to not constantly monitor the rules changes, but it still feels a bit unfair to be punished before knowing what the crime is. Even more so if the punishment was for the actions before the rules changes (as with @TinyDewDrop )
P.P.S. Read the topic, completely agree with @TinyDewDrop’s points. It can’t justifiably fit into exploits category and it is a new rule that was introduced and must also be added to the guide. You can’t expect newbs to search forum topics for the rules and laws.
If you consider this an exploit (to make it fit Rule #1), you should reward@TinyDewDrop for reporting it in the first place. I also was among those predicting this is what will happen, see HWS Patch - RP and Tax .
There is no new rule about it. And it is not new. Rule 1 is online since 9 months.
And why do you all think exploiters get a free-warning-hug? It is there. Very clear. Rule 1.
In fact I checked / punished people doing it way before that announcement because I saw that it got more and more abused but Jascha had more and more less time to fix it.
So here we go: a public reminder to respect rule 1.
The only thing you guys are arguing about is, if it is an exploit or not, I guess?
I mean in the first place it was my mistake to didn’t rethink H and A as we changed the RP gain to per hour. Too late I recognized that it is exploitable but for that I had rule 1 I thought. Now the shitstorm is rolling…
I mean as you did it, what do you thought? “Ha, this stupid idiot RexXxuS made a mistake, let’s get easy rich?”. I saw it way earlier and only few days ago one honest player came back to me and reported it. So I wanted at least make it public that exploiting my-unintended feature is not worth it.
If he would be the first who reports it, yes sure.
I don’t want to make people mad, sorry @TinyDewDrop And I fixed it day after it or @Veber ’ feedback. But only Jascha can and he was already working on the API.
I just don’t like threaten this way. It took me enough time to do all this game development stuff and if I see people just give a fuck on my stuff, abuse my mistakes then I think, “well, you knew better”.
All these feedback topics are not a time saver or cause I am bored. I really try to make the best gameplay for everyone and I can’t play the game like you guys do. So every feedback is more valuable for me than for you credits or RP.
Sorry, what do you mean? In PvP there is a cooldown und who / where spamming BA’s?
Finally last note:
This drama here took me almost one day. 1 day.
What does it cost for you? You ALT+TABed anyways. You not even lost time because the time was not meant for Empyrion in that timewindow anyways, you did something different! It is quite absurd that we talk about this at all!
So either I am too stressed to get your point of view or I go mad because you laugh at me even after you admit to not played the H / A faction as I intended (which is against an 9 old month rule - 1)
After it is cooldowned a bit and if I am sure I am not get trolled here I rethink the punishment maybe
Everyone should be able to go afk, for whatever reason without punishment.
If ill be cooking ill have to run away imediatly, if postman brings me something, if children will be killing each other.
Everyone should be kicked after 5 minutes AFK
Noone should get anything for just staying doing nothing. For being online.
This whole should be as simple as possible, with as few rules as possible
If there is no reputation gain per hour its solved. Lets wait for Jascha who will be coding such thing as we dont know whats possible to do in this matter, Jascha knows. A lot
I hope that one day it will be possible to track who killed who, who collected bounty and so on, thus factions will be rewarded for what they are supposed to do, not for being online doing nothing as there is no logic in that, but i think for now its only way how to do that.
I personaly will embrace myself with patience and will peacefully wait for admins to improve this as im sure they will as always. And no, im not going to send any pictures of genitals on HWS Discord in meantime.
The lost RP doesn’t mean much, at least for me. That’s not the point.
The problem is that it is far from being obvious why this specific way of playing is considered exploit. I was afk-ing before the RP change too to keep constructors producing. Was that exploiting too? Would you consider punishing it back then if you knew of it? I know of a lot of ways of playing that were not intended by developers. That is the fun of (especially sandbox) games to make whatever you want with the provided tools within the specified limits. I won’t waste your time on specific examples, but there’s a lot.
I just don’t get what exactly is wrong and should be avoided. Right now we have a clear prohibition of staying in a medic bay unfed to gain RP - OK. What about staying out of it and keeping stomach full? What about logging in once an hour to fulfill/renew market offers? I’m not trolling, I sincerely don’t understand what exactly is illegal. And, considering myself not unusually stupid, I insist on putting a specific line in the guide against this unwanted behavior. As long as people have some reasons to stay in game, we will see more such incidents and more drama if it’s not clearly forbidden.
I’ll try to put it another way.
Tiny and me were under impression that this topic introduces some new law/regulation to improve the faction system. You think that there is a bug in the system and we are aware of it and using it.
But in this case the expected behavior of the system is unknown to us as players (or we have differing view of it) and thus we don’t understand why this particular behavior of the system is a bug and what specific actions are “exploiting” it.
Personally i don’t think there is some kind of “witch hunt” like you might believe due to the post earlier.
I personally HOPE its a CLARIFYING way, of what u should and should NOT do in the game on this SERVER!
I took this as a hard blow when Tiny got some kind of punishment, (i dont know what he/she got). Banned or something else, i hope not perma banned.
But then again This IS NOT YOUR SERVER, its the COMMUNITY`S (HWS) (if i got it right).Lets make it a nice place to all of us, that likes to play games to flourish in.
My regards to Tiny and i hope to see him/her in chat in a short time to come.
Yes my main problem is that I/we did not consider that to be a (major) exploit at all but we get labeled as such. I find that 10x more problematic than the punishment. And then you end it with “is rule #1 period”.
And yes this creates drama and wastes everybody’s time.
[quote=“RexXxuS, post:31, topic:2325”]
And why do you all think exploiters get a free-warning-hug?
[/quote]I’m not a (major) exploiter…
Rule number one is for intentional major exploit usage or blatant cheating. To me this is not supposed to act as a fail-safe for bad balance (sorry but it really is). Don’t get me wrong you do an excellent job overall. But you can’t be perfect and sometimes you make mistakes and when they are this obvious and when people even tell you not to do it and you still do it… Well, then it must be intended design. How can we know you use rule #1 to fail-safe imbalances…
I knew it was an imbalance yes I’m 100% guilty to that. But people use those several times a day. What I tried to illustrate with that ‘wall’/list is that as a player you use imbalances every day you login. Almost impossible not too with the huge amount of those in the game.
I don’t cry about the imbalances, I’m mad about how you labeled us as major exploiters. Because then everybody on the server basically is a major exploiter. Which adds more fuel to the fire because that means (at least so it looked, this is not the case it seems) you only targeted some people for some imbalances.
[quote=“RexXxuS, post:31, topic:2325”]
“Ha, this stupid idiot RexXxuS made a mistake, let’s get easy rich?”
[/quote]No I thought: “It’s so obviously imbalanced, he implemented it anyway, must be allowed, must be legit, god knows why, but hey let’s use it”. I almost literally told a guildmember that on voice-chat.
Besides to get rich there are a lot of imbalances one can use. And most of them, if not all, seemed 100% allowed, up until now (once again the NPC trader also adds to this and should just be immediately disabled until it is reworked but that is just my opinion alone). I don’t get punished for using such imbalances either so why get punished for afk-ing? Must be legit I thought… It wasn’t…
[quote=“RexXxuS, post:31, topic:2325”]
I don’t want to make people mad, sorry @TinyDewDrop
[/quote]Thanks. I appreciate this. I really do.
The principle behind this is that people can still get items from another person who is in a PVE playfield so that you stil got access to all items in a PVP playfield on demand w/o carrying them with you. Big wall of text incoming trying to explain it:
Okay so person A sits in a PVE playfield and puts up 10 wanted orders for gold ore for 1 credit and buys persons B wanted orders whenever he needs.
Person B mines gold on gold planet and immediately sells the gold to that person every 200 gold ore. And he puts up wanted orders for drills/charges/fuel when he dies. Zero risk. Even better performed on an alt account or account with no reputation anyway (=another imbalance to avoid death penalty).
Now person B has almost 0 risk. He carries no items and whatever he mines is quickly saved on the marketplace. Now this is just a tiny advantage but what if (this actually happened several times):
Now Person B discovers a SWP outpost on gold planet. Person A transfers ammo/fuel/etc. through market (circumventing the 1 hour cooldown) to build a mini-BA behind mountain and person B can now destroy SWP’s outpost at the cost of a bit of ammo/fuel, then multitools it downs and puts stuff back in factory. Again almost 0 risk and SWP outpost gone while person B has actually nothing other than a drill, charges and the smallest SV possible (if any at all). If SWP kills person B, nothing is lost and person B will just spam the revival button until he is in safe space (or rezzes at his warpship and is back at gold planet in < 3 minutes). Then he returns a few minutes later to destroy that SWP outpost again at the cost of almost nothing.
There are more cases like ammo/combat blocks/etc. that are being transferred to people in mid-battle using the marketplace. This itself is not considered an exploit by anybody I know. Yet if I look at how you punished the AFK-ers, it should be when looking at equal standards. Because it clearly circumvents the OCD cooldown and almost everybody did this at some point.
To me personally neither of these are exploits, they are seriously in the gray area but just not far enough to be an exploit + the market is designed to work in pvp playfields by the devs. They could easily add a cooldown to it but they didn’t so it’s not an exploit. But the line is very thing to me and I know almost everybody used this to some degree in some form.
Another question is indeed: “What is an exploit (police action), what is a major exploit (punishment by admin) and what are imbalances (no punishment or perhaps maybe police action) and what is legit gameplay (no action taken)”?
Yes I feel innocent mostly because I didn’t know this was considered an exploit. And it still is not imo. Bad rep-perks + bad communication is the problem (see old PM again). I do not make this up as I go, I PM-ed you about this but I do not feel taken seriously… Which might explains you labeling us like that.
[quote=“RexXxuS, post:31, topic:2325”]
This drama here took me almost one day. 1 day.
What does it cost for you?
[/quote]Half a day + mad at you… That’s what it cost me. So ye we all lost.
I’m surprised you feel this way. This is definitely not the case (for me).
I tried to explain it to you in the PM a while back. I was literally telling you that a lot of people, including me, do not know anymore (I’m not trolling, I also felt like you and Achilles did not take me serious) what is allowed and what not and I requested more rules and existing ones to be enhanced with more examples or something like that to cover certain new ‘imbalances’ that I know players use a lot. Then when you finally added those, I got insta punished… For something I didn’t know to be a major exploit. I hope you understand what I mean. You are not the only one here that feels ‘trolled’. I do too. Now I believe this was just miscommunication but nonetheless it sucks for all parties involved. I bet I hate drama almost as much as you do.
[quote=“mcprouty, post:26, topic:2325, full:true”]
So Salty…
[/quote]Nonconstructive comment.
[quote=“RexXxuS, post:31, topic:2325”]
There is no new rule about it.
[/quote]There should be one if the rep system or the AFK rules do not change. Please do not rely on rule #1 for this anymore.
[quote=“RexXxuS, post:31, topic:2325”]
who / where spamming BA’s?
[/quote]I think we all know at least 3 major factions who did this. Plus I know 1 friend + another rather certain infamous person whom I shall not name who did this… I don’t want to name any names here mostly because 2/3rd of those are my friends… There is evidence all around and some posted evidence about themselves… Not knowing this is an exploit. I personally believe this is an actual exploit BUT because admins allowed it for a while it got accepted as a legal tactic by most players (actually by every player I know). These things, if not allowed, must be in the rules.
You may tell me “But Tiny, we don’t have time for that, players gotta use common sense!”. Well, that common sense goes out the door the moment you see it being used over longer periods of time. It starts looking legit and admins must have seen it by then.
@Veber
I agree that there was (and still is) not enough clarity regarding a lot of ‘playstyles’ and some rules/laws.
@Dr_Dasslock
No I was not banned. Punishment is perhaps a tiny bit harsh but considering he assumed we exploited + took a dump on his design (I must admit this particular design is not exactly great) the punishment was relatively very minor. If I were Rexxus and would have assumed that, I would have banned me for a week or something.
This is what I suggest for short-term: (yes they consume time but prevent some drama)
Clear rules regarding AFK-ing OR immediate change of rep system (just remove the passive income for now and give them a better supply package or something). It will get rid of the biggest imbalance at least.
Clear rules about some of those items in the list I posted earlier. I will offer my help if you want/need it where I can. Especially because a lot of those items on the list is what quite a bit of players do on a daily basis and are unaware that this might fall under rule #1.
No longer label us as major exploiters. But keep some kind (or the one there is now) of punishment for balance reasons. However rename this punishment to “balance correction” or something less insulting please. It matters to me because I was offended.
No retroactive punishments on those new rules (fine except the afk-ing). Once the new rules go live, everybody gets 24-48 hours to fix their stuff or face the punishments to the full degree and they get the benefit of the doubt of “not knowing”.
Achilles already made an excellent start with the new laws! Kudo’s to @Achilles for that.
If I wanted to exploit I could just not report those (likely undetectable) dupe exploits and use them like once a day on an alt account and then transferring it using fake battles and such (as if it was honest loot). Instead I report them. I reported many other exploits as well and reported a ton of bugs to the devs. Why would I abuse such a minor ‘exploit’ as afk-ing intentionally?
And I would like to end by again reminding you that I believe that Rexxus and Jasscha do an amazing job! It’s not perfect and never will be but amazing overall! Best unofficial server, not just looking at other Empyrion servers! And that is not an easy job for an open world sandbox game in early access. I know this very well thrust me on that.
And I accept your apology. Hope you can accept mine as well. I did overreact a bit. I assumed you had a bad day and picked some random people out of the big jar of imbalance usings and labeled it ‘exploiting’. Especially because of that 12 RP thingy. My apology.
I was thinking about the griefing/ammo draining rule.
There was a certain incident this morning (no names will be mentioned), where someone was dying near a base over and over again due to turret fire/possibly SV fire.
This person claimed griefing, the other people claimed ammo draining because he was so close to their base. If I read the rules correctly, both sides could technically be guilty. I wasn’t actually there so I’m not sure of what actually went on.
Over a hour later, that same person was found near one of the ‘opposing players’ bases, a backpack was found with a drill and some drill charges in it.
I think there should be some clarification added here, like if you are within a certain distance of someone’s base it’s not griefing to kill them over and over again, and that’s simply because they have a choice to spawn at Med Bay/Home/Start Over.
But technically, if I was a player I could die near your base, and get a lucky spawn outside of turret line of sight and ‘walk away’ to lick my wounds, but secretly I’ve learned about your base and now I’m going to blast a hole under it etc… etc.
My understanding, is you need to let that ‘lucky’ player walk away from your base, but it seems more appropriate to me that if he chooses to keep spawning he needs to understand that until he’s 2km out from the base he’s fair game.
Why? Some might ask - because he has options, and I know from experience that if you don’t drive someone completely away from your base until they spawn back at their own base they can just buy things off the market and start drilling/blasting again. Now it becomes a nuisance where you have to check ever 5 minutes to see if he actually left, or if he was playing possom.
On the other hand, if you know someone died recently and lost their backpack, and they go a few km away from your closest base then perhaps you should leave that guy alone to wander the wastelands or something.
Disturbing in morning indeed 
