HWS Guide: New way of Rules / Law + Infos

HWS Announcements
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Hey guys,

as you saw Jascha was damn busy with reworking the whole tool. That means that we couldn’t / can’t do the HWS Story / faction stuff meantime. Stability has a higher prio for now.

But that does not mean anarchy can live however you want so Achilles has implemented a better Guide regarding Rules and now Laws.

Rules / Law

A snippet from the new HWS Guide Slide:

First of all we have two types. Rule breaking and Law breaking.
Rule breaking is something generic that could be Severe or Minor (Cheating, Major exploits)
Law breaking is more specific and generally not as Severe. (Ingame disputes, Minor exploits)

HWS Police will handle most cases of Law breaking , If serious and multiple laws are broken often by the same player/faction then greater action will be taken.

So make sure to read the new rules / laws and follow them. It is not that we want to over-complicate stuff but as long as we have time to control this it grants more fun and motivation for everyone.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1sGd6iWrmSsOVWKCvVw14RDWD2prDA7F06IPhtfrDsd4/edit#slide=id.g17ab72a4f2_0_0

Faction system abusers

Of course it didn’t take long till people find leaks in the current system and most bounty hunter / alliance people just standing in their medic bay and just ALT+TAB. They get healed faster than they die due starvation.
This is not my intention but Jascha can’t fix this asap so everytime people reporting this or I check it you get a penalty (first encounter all RP reduce by half. Second permanent 0 RP. Third Credit wipe).
Alliance and Bounty Hunter don’t do their job anyway and this is not how to play the game anyways.

Events

Till everything is settled with the tool we want to start two events the coming week.
The first one will this one :slight_smile:

The second one will be announced soon too…

More details coming shortly…

In the meantime the preparation for HWS 5.0 already running. Thanks once again for your great feedback in the proper topics!

Your HWS Team

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What about respawning over and over again when gold-planet-pirates build a BA on top of me with the sole purpose of killing me over and over again? Is that also ammo draining and/or grieving?

[quote=“RexXxuS, post:1, topic:2325”]
Alliance and Bounty Hunter don’t do their job anyway and this is not how to play the game anyways.
[/quote]Give me 10+ more pvp members in our faction and we can do our job. Or give us faction alliances (devs) and we can do our job. I ain’t taking on SWP and other pirates all by myself while traders don’t even pay us for it…

Also thanks punishing me… Seems some of the changes are retroactive… I even told you this was gonna happen before you released the new changes but okay… Does this also mean that all the other laws/rules are retroactive now? Then we can ban a lot of people. Won’t be a soul left in some factions if we start digging in old videos.

And what about the people with automatic login/logout macro’s? Because standing in medic bay is totally not required to farm it.

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RexxXxxxs, my friend, it’s no use trying to get certain factions to fulfill their role in the HWS universe, without first the Devs give us tools for this, alliance will never escort traders and escorts are never possible as long as we hit each other without the Alainças that it is up to him to create none of that can go forward, this should be charged by you to devs, most of the problems that we have today in the server is precisely the fire friend, until we can define who our friends are and who does not Are the server’s role player will be broken … unfortunately …

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If you spawn there like a blind fish over and over = ammo drain.
If they build on the location you combat logged = shit happens.

You always have better options.

Isn’t retroactive and only few reported the death screams in peoples medic bays. It is rule 1. Period.

patience my little padawan…

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This is a new rule/law and when I saw this post and logged in, I was already punished for something that wasn’t even a law when I did it… Also if I did this I was actually eating food in the medic bay. Medic bay would only be in case it goes wrong. And there was no law against it when I did it.
I also saw no evidence (though I’m not denying it but evidence is still required).

Also it is not rule #1. This is not an exploit and not a bug. It’s just an imbalance. It’s not rule #1.

Whatever. No more afk-ing… Anybody afking now risks punishment. Steam sale anyway, time for other games for now.

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No need for evidence, you just sold yourself :smiley:

I think the devs need to implement an auto-kick from server when AFK more than 10mn or so (it exists in a lot of games), can be a solution to avoid this kind of abuse to get free RP.

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They do need evidence because it is a law and not a rule. And a law that wasn’t even there yet. I don’t know how Rex can justify it with rule#1 because that one clearly states that it is about bugs and exploits. This is neither.

No you can’t with that. I can give a macro someone made to login/logout w/o afk-ing. There is no need to afk to farm rep. It even checks if the server is online and/or is restarting… Used to be all legit.

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Also Auctoria is approaching completion! I did not get nearly as much done as I was hoping thus far, but continue to work on the planet before opening it up for pvp and pve events.

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Pirates are also abusing the med bay exploit. Don’t forget to take a look at them. I know of several players from a large pirate faction that have been exploiting that for weeks.

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Only it is not an exploit…The admin just shoves it under rule #1 because otherwise there wouldn’t be anyone left not to punish because he would have to do it retroactively.

But now that imbalances/faction abuse are considered exploits (rule #1) then the following is also a breach of rule #1:

  • traders attacking traders or raiding random people (faction abuse).
  • using CV’s on planets instead of SV’s because they are stronger. This is also an imbalance and thus a breach of rule #1. (imbalance)
  • buying cheap npc packages (game imbalance, you are supposed to mine on homeworld)
  • alliance not helping traders
  • traders not paying alliance
  • hunters not taking any contracts
  • ‘insert more faction abuse here’
  • afking for any reason (contributes to donator packages, 1000hour goal, 300hour goal and rep farm) including outside of medbay. (imbalance)
  • building tons of BA’s to circumvent turret limit (imbalance and possibly even an exploit!)
  • putting (only the core) core very deep underground (imbalance and possibly exploit)
  • anybody using private ships/BA’s in pvp areas (which is an actual exploit!). Which is a large part of the server population. Even when just warping. This makes the ship untargetable (one of 2 exploits) in some cases.
  • using public and private on donator planets to dodge most/all of the taxes (imbalance + pay2win)
  • disabling front thrusters to save fuel (might even count as exploit as devs likely did not intend this judging by p-menu)
  • afk mining of meteorites using macro’s (including reloading and playing sound when finished).
  • npc package trading.
  • multi-accounting (to farm gold without penalty and other pvp related activity to dodge deaths/pvp loss and to get extra HWS miners and to trade items on market with yourself in pvp areas)
  • farming gold on alien planet when server lags (no SWP, and alien AI mostly shuts down during server lag). (imbalance & possible exploit)
  • Using rockets to dig instead of filler & flatten tool (imbalance).
  • Destroying all terrain under the base from a save position to collapse it in pvp (imbalance).
  • Using market (including wanted) on pvp planet to intentionally circumvent OCD cooldown (imbalance & possibly exploit)
  • afk-mining most of the deposit using 100% macro (again macro…) (imbalance and possibly exploit)
  • Longtime parking in elemental market while logged out.
  • Abusing line of sight vs BA’s (imbalance)
  • Abusing docking (imbalane and/or exploit)
  • Etc. etc. etc.

They are now all breaches of rule #1. The entire server needs to be punished and 80% of the server should be changed to lawless. I mean, is it not weird that suddenly 95% of the server ‘roleplays’ now that we get perks? Looks like even more faction abuse.

And then I see several videos of people breaching rule #1 (using actual exploits to hurt other people including under the very nose of Achilles) and they are not punished. I can’t report them because a lot of them are alliance and/or friends in other factions and reporting them would be morally very incorrect for me. Pirates should report them. Yet the police witnessed it (there was police ship) but either didn’t see/recognize it or… No idea…

Also off-topic:
Shooting BA’s out of turret-range was an exploit according to the devs (not just an imbalance). Anyone who recorded this or screenshotted this can report those players for exploiting. So Scareb if you got proof, report them all. And while they are in prison you can freely raid their bases :wink:

And yes the last few weeks were complete anarchy to the point where players honestly lose sight of what is allowed and what not. So many bugs were used, imbalances everywhere… Early Access + temporary not enough moderation on server. But then I get punished for something that was not a breach of any laws and something that is definitely not a breach of rule #1… Or used to be until now…

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Are you serious? It is an exploit, not just an imbalance. Staying inside a med bay while you starve to death simply for the purpose of gaining more RP is an exploit of this server. It isn’t an exploit of the game, because if you did it in single player its not like you would benefit in any way other than not dying. But doing it to gain additional RP so you can thereby gain the advantages attached to the RP is a exploit - for this server.

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That is an imbalance not an exploit. And if you consider that an exploit then everything in that list above in my post is also a breach of rule #1 then because they are also imbalances (okay some might be actual exploits they are in the gray area).

And again, if I ate food, I didn’t even need the medbay…

The terms pay2win and exploit are so losely used by the admins/police/some players that they just use it when it fits them. And when it is a actual exploit they just call it an imbalance when it fits them (until someone pushes the limit with it). I guess they decide what is what and we try to play the game as good as we can (using best tactics) and sometimes the admin is like “oh no that tactic is an exploit, and that one is faction abuse, no that one is okay with us”. And sometimes you hear this weeks later… Or you see literally almost everybody using it and you are like… Seriously… THIS is an exploit? There is no consistency in their rulings.

Yes I am serious. They should provide more clarity. The changes are very good. But the inconsistency and how this was shoved under rule #1 to fit them are just not what I expected from these admins… I simply used the best tactic and there was no rule nor law against it and this was by far the least severe imbalance used.

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@RexXxuS I am disputing the punishment and I claim to not be guilty.

[quote=“TinyDewDrop, post:4, topic:2325”]
Also thanks punishing me… Seems some of the changes are retroactive… I even told you this was gonna happen[/quote]

My defense:

  • Not a breach of rule #1. Admin just shoved it in it. And if it is, then can I report about… Everybody?
  • Not breaching any laws back then. Also no evidence was posted I was just punished straight away.
  • Not exploiting because the devs did not design it
  • Not exploiting Jasscha’s system because they knew that afk-ing = profit and they released it anyway. So it was not unintentional. This is simply the best LEGAL tactic.
  • I ate food
  • I admit it is an imbalance but it is not exactly a serious one compared to many others. Imbalances are allowed, exploits and law-breaches are not. This was neither. Or are you gonna punish the entire server now for all of those imbalances?
  • I didn’t alt-tab if that matters unless I had to check Discord.
  • Many people afk for longer periods of time. I know if others do it, doesn’t mean it is right… But often it is in this server. And this particular ‘breach of rule #1’ was in no way clear to me.
  • Using an imbalance is not the same as using an exploit. Unless it suddenly is now… And if it is now, then I was not aware that this was not allowed (I would do it on an abandoned orbit in deeps space if I knew this was not allowed, that should proof I did not even know this was not allowed + I would not even tell you + would not do it on main account). Because I was not aware of this, it also can not be punished but requires a warning the first time, looking at older cases.

I’m willing to take a 25% total RP penalty (for BALANCE reasons) instead, if this is applied to anyone who afk-ed. But I still claim innocent to rule #1 and to any server laws (at the time) regarding afk-ing.

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I’ll tell you what the United States Supreme Court said in their ruling re obscenity and defining pornography:

“I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description [“hard-core pornography”] (or in this case EXPLOITS), and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it.”

There you go. I know it when I see it, and standing in a medbay simply to gain more RP for more money is it.

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[quote=“nauttdog, post:16, topic:2325”]
There you go. I know it when I see it, and standing in a medbay simply to gain more RP for more money is it.
[/quote]Fine then let’s agree with you and Rex and imbalances are hereby considered exploits. We can now punish/prison/ban pretty much the entire server population for imbalances like CV’s on planets, private ships, using marketplace in pvp, etc. Or remember people using 21 guns? Also imbalance. Punish them all retroactively? It’s all rule #1 now.
You see the problem? It’s bad either way if we agree with you and Rex. Either it is not an exploit or most of the server must be punished to stay consistent and fair.

Note that the term “exploit” has a different meaning outside of video gaming and encompasses much more. Not to mention that you can’t do anything in this game without using an imbalance… The devs did not exactly balance this game (look at pvp alone). Of course you use all the imbalances you can get, use the best tactics. If one tactic is better than another, it is likely to be an imbalance, and thus a breach of rule #1.

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I don’t think MOST of the server is using the med bay exploit. I think there are a lot of pirates and maybe some alliance groups using this exploit. There are some people who have been on 24 hours over several days and haven’t logged off once… I know of at least one larger pirate group that has members who are doing this exploit.

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You still don’t understand… MOST of the server has been using some kind of imbalance. If you played > 10 hours you probably used one without knowing it. Therefor you must now also be punished for ‘exploiting’ according to you… Why am I even replying to this…

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If I say Period it means normally the discussion is over because:

What you try with your accusations or try hard list is not worth the efforts at all. Partially a convulsive try to speak powerful. Editing your posts all the time very often sometimes with completely different meanings shows that you try too much too hard I guess.

I don’t answer to your list in detail because some of it are just game bugs (deal with it), some are Alpha gameplay problems (deal with it) and some are HWS things still in progress because we only have one guy doing all this hard work you even complaining to him (Jascha) (deal with it).

It is my system and no, abusing the med-bay exploit was not in my intention so again a quote from the rule 1:

Don’t use any kind of unfair bugs or exploits that allow you to do things that weren’t intended by the developers

In this context HWS (me) is obviously the developer.
We will of course implement an afk-kick feature or balance these faction properly so they need to do active stuff to get the bonus. But for now - as you also complained - some commands are not working, server is down for 8 hours and one guy already on its limit (Jascha)…

If you try to claim a “perfect” world game then as you said: look out in the steam sale or better: apply for being HWS Police and spent your spare time to fullfill this perfect game-list you wrote there. We can’t do all of this with the possibilities we currently have right now! Period.
Because you already participated in the thread on how to make the NPC Trader better for example but still mention it in your better-world list?!

And this gives you the right to jump on the anarchy-train instead of reporting people doing this and try to make HWS a better place like other people did?

Critism is easy to do, hm? I tried my best to make this as good as possible. Fun for players and realistic financial system to grant this fun for over 9 months now.
You are the only loudest player moaning about this. If I see a serious protest by the community of how I manage my servers then I would of course change it.

So with all that said you maybe overthink your attitude to a game / server which is not finished yet; to people doing all this in their spare time. And in exchange for 12 or X Reputation Points you lost for whatever reason you wish.

Try to make HWS / Empyrion a better place so this don’t happen again. Try to sometimes sacrifice one step but make two steps ahead afterwards.
Thanks!

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I know very well that you all put in a lot of time. I know that it is sometimes just not enough no matter how hard you try. I know that there is sometimes not enough Police and the Police sometimes lags behind in info regarding exploits/imbalances and that it is hard to recognize some of them.I understand this. I don’t blame you for any of this and I appreciate your hard work. I’m not trolling and I’m not being sarcastic and I’m not kissing bumm. I mean that.

I did not complain to Jasscha (at least was not my intention, sorry if I did). I complain about the unfairness about finding me guilty while having an utter lack of clarity and the lack of consistency and when it finally becomes clear, you punish me right away… Which I also told you before :frowning:
What I expect : “Tiny, this is not allowed anymore (see new laws), please stop it, for balance reasons we have to adjust some of your stats.”. Okay that is fair. But what you did is unfair and not like you! Saying I exploited… I am disappointed.

[quote=“RexXxuS, post:20, topic:2325”]
(deal with it)

And this gives you the right to jump on the anarchy-train instead of reporting people doing this and try to make HWS a better place like other people did?
[/quote]How can I know which ones we can use and which ones not (I PM-ed you a while earlier about these things!)? We can’t without proper moderation and rule/law updates… And then when the update hits bam I insta get punished before I even know it’s not allowed… I admit I know I was pushing limits, but I also knew I was not breaking any rules. At least so I assumed, not it appears I was… Fucking great…
How I deal with it: Push imbalances to the limit, never exploit, never use bugs, report all exploits&bugs.
You decide what is an exploit and what not based on ??? and we have to deal with it… I don’t like it and it doesn’t seem fair in a game where every little advantage counts, never knowing if you are breaching rule #1.

I edit almost all of my posts on this forum several times over. You know I do that for almost every single post on the forum… Besides, as long as I don’t lie, why not? How is this a bad thing?
And yes I admit I’m tryhard, nothing wrong with that. I don’t feel guilty.

If I would be police I would not be allowed to engage in normal game activity + I would be forced to be consistent & fair that would sadly include punishing a lot of people that I know well in several factions (don’t worry guys I won’t)… No thanks.
Well I could just say: “I don’t punish anyone until that point I joined the Police” but still… Besides I would never be allowed to be Police I guess, must be people you thrust in real life + our opinions seems to be different here. But if I ever were to be Police and sacrifice my free time for it. I would do it as consistent and fair as possible. And I would not punish people for pushing limits without at least a warning. Imo to be punished for rule #1 you must be aware of what you did was clearly breaching rule #1 which was clearly not the case for me.
And yes if I lost 12 RP in the past due to a bug + provided evidence then even though it is only 12 RP I will ask for it to be fixed. At least I didn’t post it public so that everybody would ask it back…

In 2.0 I tried not to use any imbalance and such I was the only idiot doing it. Everybody else was just doing it… I’m not that stupid anymore. They got away with it while I took the disadvantages. Never again.

[quote=“RexXxuS, post:20, topic:2325”]
We will of course implement an afk-kick feature
[/quote]Unlikely to work as long as you allow macro’s to circumvent it. And the timer would have to be really short like 10 minutes. Also does not prevent the login/logout macro’s to collect the RP without afk-ing.
I’d suggest balancing the faction perks along with banning macro’s (to at least some degree) and perhaps even a separate rule against RP farming & multi-accounting in general. That will fix a lot. Of course this must be given more thought&polish but this causes a lot of imbalance (sorry I mean exploits) at that area.

[quote=“RexXxuS, post:20, topic:2325”]
I don’t answer to your list in detail
[/quote]Then just answer two perhaps?
Why are all people who use the marketplace in pvp worlds to circumvent the OCD cooldown and people spamming BA’s not punished? Should be easy to see + it’s a clear imbalance or even blatant exploits. How is that fair to me?
And of course without warning, just punish them.

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^ is my last post about it. If you still don’t change your mind (I doubt you will) then so be it. Know that I will be disappointed at you forever regarding this… I’m sure you won’t lose any sleep over it and probably buy another bucket of popcorn. You just took me out of that huge list and punished me, then used rule #1 because otherwise you can’t with valid reason. I’m innocent.

Aha I managed not to edit that post above… Dammit now I edited this one…

Gonna play other games to cooldown. Rex made me mad, feels unfair, feel innocent…