HWS NA Admin | Gameplay Changes Part 1

I see where you’re coming from but by locking the big factions to only bidding for one bunker on one planet it opens up the floor to smaller less powerful factions that have significantly less financial capital but are still able to compete for the bunkers on the less central planets.

Furthermore, the beauty of bidding is that it’s relative to the inflation of the time. So back then 1bil was a lot of money. If what you’re saying today is true then another bunker sale would likely see us beat that previous record, which to me is a good thing.

More money>More Bidding>More money sink.

But I agree that there needs to be a way for individuals to compete. Maybe have like a single PVE planet in a PVP spot say Homeworld like Tattoine with mini-bunkers or pre-made bases that can be sold to players (or preferably bid for, say about 20 of these bases that would be perfect to store things such as raider SVs and just a general convenience).

Best regards
Wise.

EDIT: Another thing I’d do is to have bidding take place at the beginning of a NEW season instead of at the end of an old one where everyone has all of their interest overflowing.

With a new season that money is more likely to be actual capital and will have to be earnt back through both interest and mining, encouraging the bunker owners to remain active.

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Good point. I overlooked the fact that prices of those bunkers would also inflate accordingly.
We need several different money sinks including but not exclusively to individual upgrades. Why wouldn’t one of them be bunker :+1:

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Yeah Bunkers are great, it’s just the drama that’s an issue. People always whine against those either attacking a bunker or at those who own the bunker.

This is why locking the alliances to only bidding for ONE bunker type is really important.

For example U-T and RED both bet on GG Bunker V1 then they CAN’T vote for any of the other bunkers (including GG Bunker V2) this way it allows other alliances/factions to bet for GG Bunker V2.

OR they could avoid bidding against eachother in the hope of spending less:

U-T Bids for GG Bunker V1
RED Bids for GG Bunker V2

So now they’re both ‘locked’ in to that bunker version, and if they get outbid then tough luck. But most alliances I know wouldn’t want to do it that way as they’d be allowing their direct competitor an invincible base.

They would instead to prefer to outbid them in a ‘cold war’ using their superior finances like so:

RED and U-T Bidding for GG Bunker V1 to ensure the other one doesn’t get it! Now THAT could use up a lot of money :slight_smile:

Please let me know if this is confusing, it’s a little bit of a ramble but I hope you folks get my general point.

Best regards
Wise.

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Clear & well worded :+1:
I can see all the drama & rage-quits though after a smaller faction spends a major amount of their credits & just ends up getting camped by the controlling faction.

This would for sure eat quite a ton of credits from the big ones :grimacing:

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Ahh thank goodness ahha! I was worried I was rambling! :smiley:

Yes that is indeed a risk, although in my experience it was primarily the big factions issuing complaints as things were exploding inside the bunkers. With people shooting through and so on. Perhaps a bunker could truly be made invincible through the use of a shield now?

Mwahaha that’s the plan! And to have the bidding at the beginning of a NEW season it’ll be proper money and not just interest saved up from the last season! :slight_smile:

Best regards
Wise.

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This would massively limit the amount of credits removed though. The game already limits the start-of-season funds very effectively with the wiping system & limited credit transfer. However, these credits are not really lost.
It’s rare that credits are directly lost in wipes, instead they are stored in other forms such as gold where they don’t really lose value.

I’d personally prefer seeing the bidding made before the credits are stored away for safe-keeping where they’ll just re-surface in the middle of next season. More credits overall would be spent this way in the bunkers I believe :thinking:

Edit: The end goal is to delete as many credits as possible overall, anyways. Not just limit the funds available beginning of season further.

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This is an interesting point, but as you say they store it in other forms. If we want to fight true inflation then we need to be able to effectively target the stored wealth, not just the easily gained and easily spent interest wealth.

You’re right that this means there may be ‘less’ spent overall on the bunkers but it would actually be real wealth and this would be more meaningful than wiping out interest which is more of a symptom than a cause.

But either way you do make a valid point here and it’s certainly worth consideration! It’d certainly make the big factions think twice about bidding such ludicrous amounts of money! Especially problematic is the stored interest wealth through gold ingots that can be re-activated.

Another interesting point, but I’d argue that it’d at least be a good kind of disruption having an early season bunker auction as it encourages people to ‘activate’ this stored wealth, and spend it earlier than they necessarily would.

Nonetheless you’ve given me lots to think about, especially the really important consideration of how many people transmute their interest into gold at the end of a season…interesting to consider! I’ll have to think on it some more!

Best regards and good discussion and points! This is how great ideas come into being, with a good discussion of different views! :slight_smile:
Wise.

EDIT: One good thing about targeting this interest turned gold is that normally there’s a HUUUGE inflation in gold prices at the end of the season. So in reality most people are bringing only between 50% and 75% of their interest wealth across due to higher gold ingot prices (300cr per ingot or more when it’s near the end of a season). Therefore with a bunker sale AFTER a new season you’re targeting this already diminished wealth, instead of people simply keeping ALL (100%) of their wealth for bunker auctions.

I hope this sort of makes sense. Basically by storing their interested the’ve almost sort of “taxed” themselves due to end of season Gold price inflation. Therefore by having an auction at the beginning of the next season we’re reducing their wealth further.

Whereas if we had a bunker auction before the end of the last season then people wouldn’t turn their interest into gold, they would simply keep it for the bunker auction. :slight_smile:

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But this is also why I believe people would spend way less credits in after-reset bunker sales. They would be very reluctant liquidating gold bought at 400 each at 250 right after season reset.

Maybe I’m wrong & people would do this. In that case it would be perfectly targeted & would also remove gold from the game. However, I’d personally never “eat” gold at 250 I bought at 400, so I’d just end up bidding way less.

I believe this would also limits the inflation based bunker price increase, as credits are at their scarcest in the beginning.

Edit: I do appreciate your reasoning though. You might be right just as well as me :+1:
I’m in no way implying I’d be the one correct about this. As you said

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Yes this is a really good point! I’m not sure either! There’s only one way to find out! May the BUUUNKER AUUUUCTION COMMENCE!

Me at the auction

On top my next point:

On a seperate note how about we make something like skill points purchaseable with in game credits.

Rexxus do you remember our skill point discussion ideas? (Skill-Tree suggestion for 9.0) [I’m shamelessly resurrecting this old thread as I think it could be relevant to our discussion :slight_smile: ].

@Rex You remember the bit where we said that some people wouldn’t have enough skill points because it’d take about 75 days to max out the tree, how about we also made them earnable with money? Sort of a mid level and ultimately temporary cash sink (as the skill tree could reset every season or not, I’m open to ideas on that.)

@Fallen_Angel Also check the above idea, it’s a super old suggestion and could do with some modernisation from those who actually play Empyrion so if you or anyone else wants to take a look at skill tree suggestions fire away! I think that could be a really good way of soaking up funds if done correctly. Whilst also providing financial incentives as my old suggestion does. Let me know what you think, i’d love to hear your opinion on it my friend! :slight_smile:
Best regards
Wise.

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I remember the topic & I loved the idea back then.

However, if you’d spend credits in order to buy skill points, which would go towards earning discounts… :thinking: Sounds like a short-term, temporary solution that moves spending the credits from season end to slightly earlier part of the season. Sure, it’s a benefit in itself already by limiting the available funds throughout season, instead of just cutting out the “easy interests” at the end.

I think the main point should be abundance of skills to be gained. Therefore the more money you sink in the skillpoints, the more skills you get earlier. And ideally you should not be able to earn all the skills without spending big chunk of credits just by waiting.

Also, I think most of the skills should not be “discount” skills as those mainly just shift the credit spending to earlier time as I mentioned in first paragraph (Again, my thoughts only. I don’t pretend to know these things for a fact :stuck_out_tongue:)
Rather they would be cheap “vanity” skills and/or higher valued boosts to all kinds of game-play improvements (I’ve no idea what can actually be boosted with config :grin: Jascha help pls)

Overall another great suggestion :+1: Just needs a lot of thought & discussion, but that’s what this community is for!

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Absolutely! Like I said, feel free to take that idea and roll with it. Perhaps you and some other people and if you want me then me too can come up with a comprehensive skill tree suggestion for Rexxus? :slight_smile:

It’s been great chatting with you Fallen and amazing sharing so many ideas and points! I hope everyone interested in the topic gives our posts a good read!

I’ve got to head off for now but I’ll be back later. Take care and Thanks for the great discussion! :slight_smile:
Best regards
Wise. :smiley:

Cheers!

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Totally agreed :slight_smile: Loved the discussion overall and throwing around ideas. I do sincerely hope as many members of the community as possible will join the discussion & properly read/think about the subject!

I will definitely give more thought to subject & the skill trees. Maybe @Jascha could provide some short list of possible, individual boosts do-able with the config?

Same to you friend! Already waiting to hear everyone’s thoughts about this.

Would also like to point this out to the community. The idea-pool should not be limited only to what has been said so far! Be creative, there is no such thing as a bad idea when we’re just tossing around suggestions. The discussion that follows, technical limitations & admins will surely cut out the non working ones :slight_smile:

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I think this discussion deserves an award. It’s fun to read such a creative contribution and to learn which topics move the community.

Especially if there are thoughts of players who would be directly affected by possible changes.

Thanks for that.

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All i can say here is that i have ocd6 (not full) but i still got so much recourses there that i dont need to buy any. Then theres so much resources everywhere that i hardly ever need to pull resources from ocd. When you can make everything so easily, i dont need to spend money. I can fight all i want and i still dont need to pull resources from ocd. That creates problem, allmost no one needs to spend money if they dont want to. Money just cumulates. I know many wont like this but resources should be harder to get, and they should not be readily available everwhere. Npc trades sell stuff too cheap, they create another problem. If you get everything free or dirt cheap what do you expect?

One more thing that no one will like, you could make it so that after each season ypull lose one ocd level. That would make people lose resources and not want to invest so much on ocd.

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I have always thought things could stand to have more upgrade-ability at the player level.
HWS already has the start of this in Skill points provided by daily loot, but this could be expanded with 10 to 20 more ranks of buy-able skill points, that add further to these base stats, all purchasable in game via a command direct from a players elemental bank.
Make these not permanent and you have a reason for players to spend up more of that saved up gold. Make the first few levels super cheap to entice players into it and make the last few super expensive. Cheap 10k Expensive 100m

Maybe fix the price on alien cores by having them sold at special traders on ECC.

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I have to disagree, selling the NPC Cores at regular Traders would make them an common Item. It should stay a special reward for Events. Also it would make an Impact on the market, nobody would buy any fuel or oxygen. Promethium would get the cheapest on the market because nobody needs it anymore.

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Everyone dreaming of ways to make me poor… haters. Anyway, I mentioned it many seasons ago and I swear I saw them in season 6.0 in the MOBA system, ‘bunker’ ‘penthouse’ Space Stations for 8 mil each. I realize 8mil is nothing now but in season 6.0 Gold was much harder to get (Probably closer to 80 mil now). We had a space station design competition a few seasons ago… Just saying that would mean we could have them in a new MOBA system or HW system etc.

I would not buy, i live in private space and can craft my own that works better for me alot cheaper so no need to buy one.

TL;DR: Deflate the in game currency by creating money sinks and deploy innovative price stability strategies.

Firstly, congratulations David.

If you truly want to control inflation, I have some ideas that will take a multi-pronged approach. Right now, most posts are correct in that the one time cash injection is inflating prices, but prices would be even higher if PvP were more hot on Golden Globe. More demand from top factions would cause prices to rise drastically. Prices are likely to stay high into next season as well, if left unchecked.

The way to deal with the problem is to take the cash swimming around from the carbon blocks out of the market completely and then provide price stability mechanisms. The ideas that I am about to suggest obviously cannot be implemented easily. I am fully aware of this, but still believe it is the best approach. Also, if anything I am suggesting here hurts your business or whatever hustle you have going on, sorry not sorry. Rex is asking for suggestions and I intend to give him the best advice possible, which usually means pissing someone off.

-Create a daily event like Eton where it rewards no cash, but rather large amounts of RP, probably 150 RP per player who is victorious and a small amount for other participants, say 15RP. This creates a drain of materials, subsequently then cash, from the server as players vie for the RP. By rewarding RP it enables the players to purchase NPC Trader Packages and AM/EB/OCD upgrades. The end result is less cash in the market. Perhaps do a super Saturday event where the reward is much greater or a free for all style.

-Push garage ships out faster from the contest (especially miners) and expand the offerings past 20 so that there are more appealing choices for all tastes. This will be a cash sink and also boost supply of materials ending in lower prices.

-Create in-game credit only accessible instance portals to planets that are timed mining missions for certain materials, like promethium and pentaxid. The more rare and longer it is the higher the entry fee. Since it is instance based, the customer is assured the materials they are looking to get. This creates a price ceiling and stability. Why pay the market makers super high prices when you can get a bigger bang for the buck in the instance? This also will help reduce excess cash from the blocks because players are simultaneously creating more supply and reducing demand.

-Add super-traders to ECC where they sell and buy nothing but huge quantities of raw materials, like several million ore a day. Much like the instances it helps create a price ceiling, floor and stability. If PvP action is hot, the traders will sell out and regular market economics will come back into play. If PvP is cold, players might find that the trader is worth more than the market (think real long term). This drains the excess cash out of the economy from the blocks and gives supply to the market ending in lower and more stable prices. Also do this for diamonds, that would be one of the quickest ways to deflate the in game currency. Factions vying for supremacy will spend gobs of cash-ola that doesn’t go to another player, but rather evaporates from the market entirely. This dramatically drives down pricing.

-Fix Golden Globe Factory Gold and/or improve other playfields so that there is more incentive to PvP. No faction wants to spend huge amounts of resources to hold a position that is a net-loss. It has to be profitable for the winner to remain there or there is no point in fighting other than to settle scores, or for the sheer splosions. For almost all, Golden Globe is the only playfield that is worth fighting for. Homeworld could be worth something with some tweaking. In the special 5 layer crust, ditch the iron, sathium and zascosium. A player can find those almost anywhere. Instead, make it promethium, magnesium, and quadruple pentaxid (or single count of gold). That would be worth fighting over. While classic PvP drives demand up, it also makes cash exit the market, especially if combined with my other suggestions.

-Make a season long server PvP event that is faction based, perhaps the faction that holds an event the most days all season gets something of both tangible and intangible value. Maybe like a victory purse of goodies as well as their name up in the (newly made) ECC trophy room/hall of fame.

-Limit alternate accounts to one. Enforce it. Players that use multiple alt accounts to play off of interest only (rather than acquiring resources themselves) increase demand and therefore prices/inflation.

While I know there are many ways to skin a cat and we can argue on the tactics of what I purpose, the basic economics of it all is simple. For inflation to be reversed, the in-game currency has to be deflated and that only happens when it exits the server entirely, not revolve around the marketplace hitting multiple player’s wallets. To keep inflation in check, there has to be price ceiling, floor and stability mechanisms added into the server. What I suggest seems to be nuanced enough to keep prices in a good range, with deviations depending on demand still. Think of it as bumper bowling, easy-peasy, self-correcting and stable. That also allows pricing of new/existing features to be relevant long term, resulting in less work re-tweaking each season.

As always, thanks for your consideration.

P.S. Can we get some sharks with friggin laser beams attached to their heads?

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To me it sounds like many of your suggestions here, would increase amounts of cash rather than decrease them.

This is not a good idea. 150 RP daily is overpowered. Already the 100 from Eton is a lot. Creating an event like this would leave Eton useless.

There’s already some garage ships out. 1 of each category if i’m not wrong, except miners. There’s 2. X7X, and Raider.
And you people don’t need more than a couple garage ships in a whole season, so it isn’t a long-term cash sink.

This also sounds like a way more to earn cash, instead of decresing it.

Sell ore’s at super trader??
This season it’s quite easy to mine, so another way to get more money, instead of decreasing it.

Golden globe factory was never broken. There was just a change we didn’t realise. And it sounds like you want to make golden globe more profitable??? So more cash??

More rewards, without any sinks.

You’re allowed to have 3 alt accounts, which you could use to avoid end-game a bit longer, by having to make those better.
And it’s against the rules to use them for more interest and stuff, and it’s quite easy for the admins to spot people doing this. So i don’t see how this would help.

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