Thanks all of you so far. Please continue to post as this information is really helping us out.
As you can see with the great post from hops we are taking each thing that is said so when push comes to shove its not a decision we are making on what we think is best… But what you guys think is best
Im curious what can devs do about this. Might be a little bit offtopic but what is the situation? I mean all the “solve this solve that” pressure on HWS team is because its buged as hell alpha. With performance its i guess similar, there must be tons to do better.
Im not much “in” anymore but i guess Rexxx is quite well informed. Is there any chance for some performance polishing? Just curiosity.
Also its hard to decide. Whats worse, a lot of playfields with few ppl or few playfields overcrowded? Would be good to have some more information. I guess there is some limit above which playfield is performing badly. If you squeeze too many ppl to one planet, 20 of them flying CVs around it wont work from what i saw so far.
Lights, unnecessarily large structures, vehicles scatered all around with no use for them…this might be improved. Might be good to give some love to scrap command, make it more avivable. I mean, we withdraw from fight and them damaged vehicles are all around our scrapyard, waiting there for days as nobody is that eager to deconstruct them. Same for bases/vehicles of non-active players.
Sensors…can anyone tell how much performance these wants?
Simply, every limitations you will bring in will be painfull for someone, might be good to try to keep game as “clear” as possible by “optimising” it on our end. Also I would love to hear about what costs us most resources, where is some balance, can help us to decide.
In Minecraft i had a tool which clearly told me which chunks cost too much and wont fit in 20ms tick so i was able to tell guys your 1000 cows in your farm is unnecessary.
I think about all this for some time, but I couldnt figure everything we need in one post. Its rly hard. So I try to mention main “problems”:
Important:
PVP performance
Auto-deconstruct for ships (as simple, as AM or OCD commands)
Universe size (the less size - the better performance - and ofc more fun)
Only ONE perma-PvP gold-Planet. One planet - one prize!
PvE-zone, space or planets - whatever. But it must have. Tax and RP for it - too.
RP-system
OCD as it was planed: some kind of “trick” to save u from bug-situation.
POIs (if we talk about AMC for AM, we need dat POIs for farm);
Event system or planet, with some auto-scenario or missions.
Not important:
Donator planets
NPC Player Traders (useless thing)
EM as its now. Only SV with Drill actually interesting. All other - useless.
Dat penthouses for sale. I want my own design, its sandbox game, why I need buy some perma-buildings? Better sell me territory, and I build my own.
tons of planet-clons, with nothing to watch there
If I could write some more things, than:
We got a lot of planets(and systems), without any sense. We need prize to fight for. Something like Armageddon was, BUT without any gold-farm during PvE-period. Its madness. U got PvE-time for creating heavy-armored base, and than got PvP-period to fight others and farm Gold.
(But as for me - 4th version for gold - was the best.)
Same with System+Planets where spawned all dat POI we need. Make some fixed spawn/wipe in 9 p.m. or near it, and make it PvP, that all could conquest for it. Wonna cool prizes? Create team and go for it! If solo-players wonna some easy way - make one planet PvE, and give it to them. Less planets and systems. One place for everything.
perma-PvE donator planets - place it on some other server, like it was suggested earlier: some transfer-system, which transfer u on donator-server with your planet. Why all need see dat lagy-things with server, bc we got 10+++ active-donator planets, which wouldnt be wiped/cleaned and would only eat server-performance.
Same thing to Start-systems. Make ONE PvP-start system with perma-PvE start planets to all origins. And ofc with wipes (move them out of there, and refresh place for new players). Its rly problem. I bring 2 new people to server, I help them with info, but couldnt help directly by myself (I already leave start-system). And guess what they see? PvE-start planet with TONS of BAs and ships with 0 deposits and meteorites. Everything farmed by “old” players, which stay there and farm, farm and farm like greedy hamsters. They even couldnt make their own stuff to survive… I think its not good.
OCD as it MUST be, but not as its now. It some kind of “helper” when u lost your ship during the bug/dc/crash or etc. What does it means? - u need IT works in every system/planet. But there must be some restrictions. U could PUT in it only in PvE-zones. U could get EVERYTHING only in PvE-zones. But also, it must give u ingots (let it be ONLY ingots) and some count of fuel+Crystals in EVERY playfield. This will save nerves and time for Player and Admin/Moderator. I got dc? My ship wiped out? My ship stuck in planet orbit, and I couldnt get it out? I use OCD, create some kind of evacuation ship and continue play, while Adm/Mod offline. And than when they got time, they help me with my stuck ship. But I wouldnt waste time with spaming messages in game/discord or PM to Adms. Or just get dat ruined game bc of 0 possibility get anything or anywhere while my ship is stuck.
EM and all dat NPC-traders and markets - looks suck(((( Sorry, but its true. There is no sense in them. The only thing which I find interesting - its SV with drills. All others: everything expensive and even eat your RP for simple things. How many people used it during 5th version?.. I didnt know such.
That only some thing, which rly critical in nowadays. It could be more and more, but Im not sure, would u read all this :"D
P.S.: Sry for bad Eng. Still need some more practice in it.
First of all thanks for Achilles bringing this topic to the surface.
In my madness and sadness I wasn’t able to create such a great post… but it was good and needed.
Thank you all for your support and cooperation to help! We got a lot of helpful posts in many ways.
To explain some things a bit more detailed before we need to cut and change and what not:
HWS is not connected with Eleon in any way. We don’t get support in terms what you want/think and it is just that we are in direct contact > we get bugs fixed faster etc.
The only failure on the part of HWS is: we want the best experience for you imaginable possible. So what many of you don’t recognize but it’s true:
the current universe is great! In prime time we have over 43 open playfields at the same time. That shows us that there are many interesting places people like to live there. In previous universes we had similar total playfields but they were boring and people didn’t live there.
A lot request indestructible terrain but due bugs and what not we had to revert to normal terrain again. That had cost a lot of performance
This game stands and falls with open playfields at the same time. You need to know: each playfield consumes about 5-10% CPU in prime time. In prime time we have as I said about 43 open playfields. Multiply 5 by 43 and you know what the CPU needs to do…
We have 128GB RAM. That is a luxury we thought and didn’t care but it also reaches a state where it gets important again
(some inaccuracy included due tool freezes)
Now sure there are now two main plain options:
Allow only 30 players on HWS and happy days. No lags, everything smooth as in Singleplayer
or
A universe which is 30 playfields big (playfield = planet OR space) but keep 177 players or even more.
Now @Elfias mention correctly what happens if we have 50 people on the planet?
Well for the CPU it is nice and smooth. Go for it. But for your Client, for your PC it will decide who has the better PC Hardware since the rendering of Thrusters, Lights, etc. are the job of your PC, not the server anymore.
So the BEST way would be now following:
We reduce the Blueprint size to 3 and cut the universe so brutally apart that we somehow reach the numbers from above. Then you realize we have an equal solution to Clients AND Server.
Everything else is senseless.
However in reality the real thing is: we / I spent thousands - I repeat thousands of hours to the HWS 6 setup as it is now. I am still mad that all was for nothing and we have to change.
So ok but that means we need either to small fix things here and there… collect more legacy, more inaccurate things here and there and somehow “survive” till the Dawn.
OR we fuck this system (sorry…) and do a full wipe, reset the season timer and go back to the drawing board with the above “perfect!?” universe / setup.
That is the misery we are in. Period.
So here we are. Read this twice maybe and decide… but I fear we need to do an exception this time and do what we think is best for the server and the community and not for individuals flaming us to death because they have now all blueprints adjusted to Class 4 and rage quitting and wishing us death that we go to Class 3 or whatever.
Really sorry but your cries are nothing in comparison how much we/I suffer from not providing you a great experience - starting with stability and performance.
Ok sorry I have taken so long to reply. I have spent the last couple of days thinking about this. So let’s get started:
Planets/Systems:
Donator planets – These are cash cows. No Digging, Has meteorites
Starter Planets – Need to start Somewhere – but no return once left. No Digging, Has meteorites
Elemental planet – Love the new planet and you must keep this. Although you don’t need all the items that are floating around in orbit. Just have it on the planet. No Digging, PVE only, No CV’s
Black Hole – This is a fun place to mine and fight. – Full PVP
Homeworld – But reduce the number of Planets i.e. Darkworld (never liked it), Perhaps have the Alienworld somewhere else in the Galaxy. Waterworld we don’t need. No Digging, Has meteorites, 1 CV per faction, no public or private CV’s can enter planet and no weapons fire.
Another system that has all the resources. On a couple of normal planets. Space is PVE but the planets in this system are PVP and no digging (only meteorites) 1 CV per faction, no public or private CV’s can enter planet and no weapons fire.
In a nutshell NO digging on ANY planet.
Other mechanics
Must keep, OCD
AM
Elemental Zones (on a planet)
NPC Player Traders (on Elemental Planet)
RP needs some work but also rewards need to be better to make it worth gaining.
One thing I really Hate is this 8 week season. It’s just not long enough and is the one thing that makes me want to leave this server. It’s hard to say that but it’s true. Example I will be away for 3wks plus we are already in our 2nd week. That leaves 3 wks I don’t want to play a game where everything gets wiped that quick. We should do away with this. The seasons should be either 6 months at least or when they is a massive update.
I am sure you will make the right choices and I look forward to what you come up with.
Thanks a lot once again Rexx. This should be clear to everyone with 2 classes of math now.
It should be clear how much work you all are putting into this all and how painfull it must be this 6.0 cut and gut it.
Limit it as you have to, im good in agitatation, probably its time to send HWS population on Eleon forum to cause some drama there once again, time to beat dead horse i guess
Now go angry mob and request more multiplayer love from The Creators!
Its such a retreat and regroup time, dont let this setback to poison you, you doing great guys!
1st Class 3 will kill the Server. 4 is a hard pill to swallow 3 will cause the ship to sink.
So we must resort to other options. Oh and I am sorry I spent so long typing my last reply that I did not see your Post @RexXxuS sorry.
I am more for a full wipe cut a number of planets systems etc. And cut the Season Timer again I say 8 weeks if far toooo short. When we do a full wipe can we have a weeks notice so we can deconstruct and OCD our stuff please.
As a sweetner perhaps issue everybody 1 million credits. I know you don’t need to but it might calm the but hurt of players who will scream about the full wipe.
I have a suggestion but not sure how do-able it is:
Problem: *Universe is too large (gathered from posts)
*Admins have put a lot of work into making it large.
Effects: less people bumping into each other / performance issues.
An idea: Rotating planets, have maybe 40%-60% of the universe available to the players at a time and after maybe 2 weeks a few planets wipe and fall away and other planets on different routes open up. The map only being visible once you have explored it help a lot with this maybe after those 2 weeks the map goes blank again so people have to go and explore the universe again and change their strategies a bit. Using this method none of the admins hard work is wasted and we have a smaller less laggy universe to play in.
And if you where on one of these wiping planets when it gets wiped you get teleported to a neutral pve place with the ship your near and get taxed for it.
Lets take the pain and restart the season. (Also I have read one of Hummel’s posts that one of the recent bug fixes only works on a restart)
Go class 3 on everything. You can still have vey large ships that are class 3 - just not as much armour! And the same situation for everyone.
I like Kogami’s suggestion of rotating planets/playfields. Changing up playfields/missions even once mid season would keep things fresh and allow a smaller universe. It would also allow the addition of new areas (like the previous insertion of Armageddon mid season)
Wipe the starters and limit the starter orbit to Class 1 - so if you spawn in the day before a starter wipe you can still store your stuff in space, but there is no way to build and keep big vessels/bases there permanently.
However can we mitigate the pain for the season restart, by allowing free carry over of credits and factory resources? It would be harsh to loose the balances we have built up (and the RP the credit reward from season 5) after two weeks.
Also please give us a week to pack everything up? (and allow time for more Eleon bug fixes to be released)
No no, then what next? Reducing to Class 2 and eventually class 1? Class 4 was fair enough to adapt to, but class 3 will just kill it. Do whatever it takes but leave the ship restrictions the way it is…
I agree. if we went to class 3 and I honestly say I will shelf this game. No other server comes near as good as this one. It took me weeks to heal my but hurt going down to size 4. Size 3 will just kill the game for me and a number of other people I know.
As much as i understand RandallFlagg and you its not that much about what size we would like to see i think, its like in RL, some are simply unlucky when it comes to size and nothing they can do.
There is a graph and that says it all. You cant fit 2 cars in garage for 1, unless its Dawoo Matiz.
If you look at HWS history there were no limit in 1.0. We suffered everytime some new player build famous cube, i build one, everyone did that, cubes cool, but cube lags. Then HWS started with limitations, in 2.0 we was trying many different things to save performance, in 3.0 i think 50 devices limit came. Now we are in 6.0 with class 4.
So what will come next? well some change corresponding to what Eleon mess next time. But we went from unlimited to tiny ones and back and so far it didnt kill the server. Think about it as temporary changing rule…in 6.0 we had to start building class3 now its 7.0 and we can finaly build class 5 as eleon did their job…
10% of CPU 1 populated playfield = 10 playfields at best, seems like it would be good to save some performance somewhere else than in number of playfields.
Nobody likes it but it doesnt seem optional.
Knowing you guys are putting a major effort and intense headache into sustaining HWS and agreeing that you need to do unfortunate modifications to current concept to deal with Load . here are some pinpoints :
1- keep the class size 4 as reducing to lev 3 will dramatically decrease gameplay performance and have to agree that yes it would be a game killer since pvp will be affected to the bones . and re-modifying all bp will cause much outrage.
2- even thou u made a great universe yes would agree on reducing size atm until drawing board and hardware investment fits perfectly .
3- make all terrain indestructible but allow 1 thing "if possible " setposition command since deleting a base cause accidentally was submerged is a pain in the ars .
4- no one would mind a full wipe to re integrate changes but mind that would be preferable to re adjust ocd to prior configuration and allow recycling to all players during grace period .
you are an exceptional team and i support u guys for whatever decision u make . cheers !
I don’t really experience that much issues at all. This server usually runs very smooth for me other than the occasionally D/C every once in a while, meteorites sometimes not spawning and random empyrion nuttery, does this really have to do with the size classes of the ships?
3 and 4 really isn’t much of a difference and would do little to make any real impact. To prove my point, try downgrading to size class 3 now with the current universe setup, and the issues would still be prevalent. There are a lot of newbies here that not that many players are using size class 4 ships anyway.
Do whatever it takes, apart from reducing player count and limiting our already limited freedom. I can understand not having massive class 8 CV’s, class 4 is already a good solution for that. Like I said, having class 4 and class 3 in the current universe setup now makes no real difference and is only a nuisance, so let it be and make the changes that truly matters.
Show us difference. Class its not only block count. Its also triangles and devices. Yes yes, dat things, which download our PC most, when its try to upload everything in our screen. If we need to reduce it for better performance - than let it be! Lets see what happens with 3rd class restriction.
You might be right, well you know i fear of one single thing.
As universe shrinks that will bring more ppl to planets together and thats where its starting to be really bad from what i saw so far, with every CV flying around it goes down more and more, i remeber us screaming on discord damn who the hell is flying that CV around its unplaybale, while on quite empty playfield its not such issue.
So probably its about some balance, maybe lower cor elimit on planet but that will simply deny option to settle down where you want.
The worst thing is overcrowded playfield, also ppl then decides to move to not that much crowded one, of course leaving their old base on planet just in case and at some point this migration leaves you with 3 overcrowded but unused planets at same time.
Now this was example of Nova in 2.0 i think, Nova start to crash, ppl moved to fortune, overcrowded it and when it started to crashed they moved to 3rd one. So thats it.
Well most of all…responsible players would do best improvment, keep all the stuff clear. No 400m long coridors to reach water for 02, sv can do it and such.
Btw im not exactly sure what SWP is doing they are supposed to keep playfields clear and empty
Be sure - only few. Dat stupid mania to massive ships - only words. For all the times, I saw rly BIG ships only in PvP-factions. And they got all classes ships, so thats not so big problem. All other, just ,make big size by useless deco-crafting. Dat ships are just PvE-deco, which are crafted and… and thats all. Parking in PvE to the end of times, and spend server performance for some ones ego - i rly dont care about them, like all others for sure.
If there would be some PvP hours on dat playfields, be sure: We make it clear But… We got tons of PvE-planets and systems. Even donator-PvE planets. Rex not fair with us (((
But… We got tons of PvE-planets and systems. Even donator-PvE planets. Rex not fair with us (((