it would be cool to have no limits for turrets and mounted weapons. but calculate them in terms of class size(?) in another way: 1 mounted minigun = 10 devices, unguided rockets = 25, plasma = 50, guided rockets 60 devices, 1 artillery turret = 1000 devices etc. so you can build whatever ship you want but does not be overwhelmed with launchers or turrets.
also since SV can warp and workshops being filling with really nice vessel designs(SV can provide much more details than CV just because of block size) so⌠it would be cool to add turrets for SVs. Make light frigates.
also it would be cool to have not restrictions by size class, but size class and amount of vessels. Like 1 CV above size class 7-10, 2 CVs size class 5-7, 3 CVs size class 3-5, 10 size class 1-2 etc. and make these restrictions per player.
this definitely requires strong math guy and full rebalancing.
also SV warp tanks size can be increased from 15 to 25 along with CVs
we canât fix all your world problems. Just what is connected to stat values you know. So dynamic class calculation for turrets and thrusters and and is still in the future
@Elfias itâs christmas soon. Everyone can have wishes. Itâs only about being friendly then the wishes become true⌠probably. I canât tell more since Iâm not allowed. But itâs a very serious input you better give
Again we canât create totally new turrets or blocks. Just go in creative mode and see all we have at the moment. That can be probably changed then.
Btw. it would be cool if we have some guys keeping track of good suggestions here and make maybe a summary along the way. Itâs hard for me to focus on everything but in the end a brainstorm together could work. Oh and that is directed to our PA (Personal Assistant) program.
Oh i think we can dream with full freedom. BTW. Devs need make BA arty homing again. It is simple thing give a good buff to the BA defence against SV and HV.
I really donât think the answer is manipulating the game mechanics. I think we need
to simply organize the PvP using what Rexxus and Elion have already provided.
I would do a mid season wipe. Then make these changes.
(keep in mind this hurts me as much as anyone else)
All OCDs wiped to 50k per slot @ lvl 5.
conduct a buyback on garage vessels all other special purchases carry over.
(to make it simple if u have the original alien core u get you credits back.)
Reintroduce garage vessels but this time no weapons just CV parts on HVs & SVs.
Turn a couple planets into battlefields where these garage vessels are sold.
Entry to these planets require alliance in one of two official factions. Each faction has
a massive admin cored base. One located at the far north along redline the other
along the southern redline. These bases will be invulnerable and very well armed.
Outside these bases perimeter bunkers can be purchased. Purchase includes A
base core. This allows for destructible defenses to be added. Terrain is indestructible
and NO resources are present. NO golden nuggets from the sky either. So whatâs there
worth fighting for? Well how about this.
Control Points - Strategic locations that provide bonuses.
Need Cobalt? Control the cobalt refinery and watch the ingots pour in.
Need some POI action? This entire planet is a POI. Vast underground tunnels accessible
through both the Official Faction HQs as well as the purchasable bunkers. Filled with all
the lovelies you find in the POIs as well as some nice loot.
Need some Gold? An entire planet made of gold and only accessible through portals located
at each official faction HQ as well as the purchasable bunkers. No SVs or HVs just you
your trusty rifle and a T2 Drill. This will be Golden minor. Golden Major has spawn pads allowing
for the spawning of vessels once on the planet. This planet isnât made of Gold but it does fall from
the sky along with other rare resources. Base construction not allowed on either planet.
Now alittle something for the PvEers. The exact same planet but PVE. Obviously the portals lead
to the same gold planet. And survival on the planet has been ramped up whereas the PvP version
environmental survival isnât an issue. This is where players would Purchase special PvE garage
vessels including special CVs with furnaces, ATMS and perhaps even admin cored like the bunkers
except without external weapons, Miniguns could be excluded to provide security. These would be
restricted to PvE space.
I havenât forgotten about our lawless pirates. Who havenât seen no Rexxus love in
a long time. The space around these four planets is of course PvP and loaded with asteroids with untold wealth within them. There is a rumor that a pirate base of untold power that one dares not approach is
hidden within an asteroid field. Here you can purchase special SVâs that have modified CV weapons, warp drives, armor and even some of the amenities found on CVâs
(Svâs With CV weapons would be limited to none auto firing and would not fire in atmo.)
The hardest part about making this happen is the construction of the Planet. It would require a bit of
co-ordination and a lot of digging. We would want to wall in much of this network of tunnels and Caverns
incase a wipe was ever needed it could all be dug out again easily. Then two large Base networks along
with a pirate space base (Hollow Asteroid with surrounding smaller asteroids as purchasable bunkers.)
A few refineries would need be built as well.
Just an idea to keep the changes to a minimum. The more that changes the more bugs that can pop up.
Finally I would offer veteran players the option of carrying player level and location over after a wipe.
Okay I usually never like making long winded posts, but in this case I feel itâs necessaryâŚinhales deeply
The main problem is I feel like weâve pretty much already discussed many of these issues to death. Iâm sure you forward this type of stuff to them already Rexxus and explain to Eleon devs and show them our videos, but they just decide to go off doing other random things without any real sense of direction. We never see any real roadmap for Eleon, okay guys 8.0 is gonna focus on A, 9.0 on B, 10.0 on C, etc.
IMO their priorities need to be the following:
Fix MAJOR gameplay issues that are EASY to fix and donât require a LARGE amount of dev time
a) SV Tackling CV - I was probably the first person on HWS to get my CV tackled by SV in 6.0 and made a big thread about it, but here we are well into 7.0 and they still havenât fixed it. CV needs to be able to move if thereâs an enemy ship in its bounding box. Iâd rather have a half solution where the CV can just move and clip through SV than totally disable it. This dumb drama about is shouldnât even exist in the 1st place.
b) Add Anti Grief device - Similiar to Offline Protection device that has to be above ground so we can kill bases. Once again, not a huge coding thing right?
c) Add a hacking device to locate core location - Not a huge development task right?
d) Add server configurable Cooldown on Warp Drive spool up - sounds like this is maybe coming soonâŚRexxus/Jascha shouldnât have to implement some damn fancy mod to do this IMO.
e) Make it CV canât warp if itâs been in combat/been hit in the last 30 seconds - Yeah canât just warp out when your in a mid battle.
f) Fix the Fill All Ammo button - Seriously, why canât we divide the ammo stacks by the number of ammo boxes and split the stuff even across the ammo boxes??? So easy to fix, simple math here and done.
g) Add a combat logoff timer - Your character stays in the world for 30-60 seconds after you logout. No more instant combat logs.
h) No guns shooting with OLP - AG distance can be increased so ppl canât plop down bases with turrets in range when you login. Having near perma invincible towers also shooting at you is not fun. It also encourages the âcreate a bunch of 1 man factionsâ for more invincible towers meta which is dumb. Maybe have a spool down time for OLP when you enter playfield of 5 minutes where neither your base or enemy bases can shoot at you while you get your bearings. Your OLP shield turns yellow during this time to signify the âpvp will happen soonâ.
i) OLP Tweaks - Contingent on g above, but when you come on-line OLP should not go down. Only when you enter the playfield with the OLP base should it go down. To counter that, there should be a countdown timer in P Menu of say 2 hours that you have to stay on-line before OLP we will re-activate again. This would encourage more active defending/attacking instead of âoh look OLP down letâs attack a base with no one there cause 1 guy wanted to go check his bank interestâ
Fix MAJOR gameplay issues that are EASY to implement/fix but require a LARGE amount of dev time
a) CV mass - CVs need to turn slower, etc, all that stuff
b) Increase overall gun damage for BA/CV - BA canât do shit to tanky SV. CVs canât do shit to another CV. Stuff already explained above. I always figured they were holding off rebalancing the guns thinking they were going to be adding shields soon which would then require that change, but we have not seen it.
c) Repair to blueprint - Weâve been asking for it for over a year now. I donât know why it wasnât a listed feature on the 2018 survey and why Eleon keeps dodging adding this great quality of life feature.
d) Simple conveyor system - Add a conveyor block to BA. I queue ammo in base, I choose for it to go directly into a certain CVâs ammo boxes.
Fix MAJOR gameplay issues that are HARD to implement/fix but require a LARGE amount of dev time
a) Better AI - The drone AI is so bad, so is the AI CV patrol vessels in atmo and CV carriers in space. Whenâs the last time you thought, âOH SHIT A DRONE, RUN FOR THE HILLS, NEED SOME BACKUP!â Like no one ever said. Right now they move way to slow, too easy to target, donât have any evasive patterns, do low damage, slow to respond, and they probably need homing rockets as well. I would like to see overall tougher enemies ala Dark Souls type bosses or something. Like I want a Zirax version of Megatron dropping by my base shooting 20 rockets and calling in orbital laser strikes. I realize good AI is a long hard task this is why it is down lower on the priority list.
b) More single player content - All the noobs keep complaining on the forum about nothing to do in SP. I almost feel like Rexxus could just throw a bunch of his hard mode POIs into the default survival mode and that would satisfy them lol. But it doesnât matter much when the AI still sucks.
Add stuff that DOES NOT change GAMEPLAY that much but is nice to have
a) Spherical planets, no more red/green wall - Nice to have, not much added to gameplay
b) Wind Power - Cool I guess, but doesnât add much.
Everything else not that important
a) NPC Deco blocks, etc lol.
If Eleon just did all the stuff in PART 1, Iâm sure most of us would be a lot happier. Where is this long awaited major PVP patch I always hear Hummel saying, âyeah its coming next patch, donât worryâ.
Prioritize good gameplay mechanics first, and the stuff that is practical and easier to fix, then do the SP content and hard stuff afterwards. Fix thy priorities Eleon, get a clear direction again on whatâs important and practical.
I suspect adding proper ship-to-ship collision detection (in 5.xx) was the thing that finally overloaded the netcode (and broke PVP) once and for all. Maybe that patch needs looking at ? I wouldnât hold your breath though, seems itâs beyond Eleon or possibly beyond Unity.
Even early access games are supposed to be playable, this one seems to take two steps backward for every one forwards. I have plenty ideas for a âbetter gameâ, but it seems ridiculous to be discussing finer details when we canât even play without getting DCâd
For what its worthâŚ
(1) double the damage and halve the ROF. Thatâs a simple way to reduce load. But the rubber banding happens even before a single ship has opened fire âŚ
(2) reduce combat steel HP / damage resistance. CVs are stupidly tough now
(3) give the CVs back their range, 500m is a joke
(4) add some way to prevent ships insta-warping out of combat, like a cooldown on warping or no way of warping near other ships
However ⌠no point discussing cake recipes when the oven is broke
Guys guys, its all nice but really this is about one thing:
Imagine you have access to database of weapon properties. All you can do is to adjust those values in effort to increasse performance of PvP combat. Thats it.
So its stuff like Damage, Rate of Fire, Magazine size etc. Also they use ammo for dmg calculation or something like that, so options here are limited but still huge.
Its not about limiting OCD etc, thats different topic, imagine theres file like Turrets.yaml and you can edit it and set all the way it will help in PvP performance wise mostly, its not even about balance at least at start.
Performace
Balance
Only this only by changing values, no new things liek fluid water. No Repair2bp, no new features, just editing and adjusting values of weapons and ammo and blocks maybe.
So what can be done very simplyâŚrate of fire divided by 10, damage multiplied by 10. 10x less calculation for fire. Minigun not doing 7 dmg every second for 10s as something needs to calculate it, instead minigun doing 70dmg every 10s.
This all while PvE players must be able to do their POIs or whatever.
And how we will be build ships after it? IMHO Editing major ships stats it is not good way. Again SE like example. We have tons of mods and tons of servers with different mods. And tons unusable ships because it have different mods. Devs must do it and balanced once for all times. I mean main characteristics. Only little fix and balance with time. I really tired rebuild all my main ships two three times per season.
P.S. HWS can make something like that even now - Change the max turrets count. For example set miniguns and cannon turrets to 0 Add more flacks or plasma or missiles (even full BA rebalance). With the SV and HV do the same. - remove lagy turrets add more valuable.
CV FIGHT FEEDBACK:
I believe in a points-based system for CV building when it comes to turrets. And make it so that turrets massively impact the class of vessels.
Then make it so CLASS has a huge impact on the speed, torque, rotation, acceleration (and most importantly) WARP TIME.
E.G The higher class battleships will have lots of turrets+armour and will be very slow and take several minutes to warp. Meanwhile the less heavily armed/armoured corvet-class 'CVâs can turn and accelerate much faster, whilst taking longer to warp.
Maybe even restrict certain turrets to certain classes Stellaris style. (Light and medium classes on Corvettes whilst heavy weapons such as Arty turrets restricted to heavier CVs.)
Turret range needs an increase also in space. Whilst the cost of ammo and reduced damage makes CV combat feel like diminishing returns. This can be solved in two or three ways.
Option A: Increase turret damage to about 150-175% of current damage.
Option B: Reduce Combat steel total HP and maybe base it on class size. (Light CV combat steel-A lighter 1.25K HP block. Medium 1.5K Heavy 2K.)
Wake me up when theres something more empirical to do
Joking im realy excited about this, but without whatcanweset.yaml and server to test it and fixed amount of testers this is just chating about Joe thinks that artilery doing more dmg would be fun
It needs a bit of scintific approach, meassuring etc. but most of all we really need to see inside settings, damage calculation algorithm etc. to see something real.
You can notice common opinion already which is lower ROF higher dmg - less calculationâŚvery vague without any testing.
Also im sure Eleon did kill CV combat for reason as half range for CVs means half of projectile lifetime, they probably have reason for that etc.
So when this testing starts exactly? I was a good good boy whole year, helping old ppl to get across the street and such.
It is very clear (and 100% of all game devs fail here) that DEFENCE has to be strengthened, not a little bit but MASSIVE.
Currently a skilled SV pilot can take out your current size 10 BA in a minute, Main problem is not the firepower but the weapon tracking. The only chance to hit an agile vessel is with guided rockets. My suggestion would be to set the weapon loadout in relation to the vessel size and to increase the range of bases and CVs.
At the moment it is pointless to build a base anywhere when a SV noob can take it out without efforts.
Seeming as I only started playing this season, My opinion may not be as accurate as some others.
I think Auto-Turrets are way Over-powered - I mean unless you have a BP of the ship you are fighting how is it that they seem to know where the cockpit is - Or even where the core is?
So instead of removing auto-turrets completely (I would love that - Trust me I would because so many people cant fly ) But remove the options to target specific parts unless you have a BP of that ship, That way, You would then know where the stuff isâŚ
I do think that the current damage output is low - Take missiles for example - If 4 Missiles hit the side of you, you would have a hole in the side of your ship, Instead atm it seems you can fire 15-20 missiles sometimes, and it doesnât even scratch the paintwork - Okay maybe not quite like that but are underpowered, Maybe make them heatseeking too
Gatlings are fun - I dont think they bring much lag compared to the auto-turrets.
HP on blocks per class and per vessel needs balancing to reflect their nature.
Also definatly agree with Thruster balancing - Currently - A 5kt SV can keep up with a 5t SV - I mean WTH⌠Who did the maths their - Slap em
Overall - From my experience so far PvP is Good - But before anything gets tweaked or anything NEW gets added - The devs should really concentrate on the fixing the bugsâŚ
I mean we all have bought something in a shop once thats gone wrong - The defining moment of whether you shop at that shop again is the aftercare - Do they apologise and refund/replace with a smile - Or do they stick two fingers up and go hey - You get what you pay forâŚ
Fights last too long, not enough dps vs hp, weapons run out of ammo or are destroyed long before the ship is.
You need 10BA to survive a fight but 1BA should have the strength of 10 with only 8 turrets, thatâs a lot less lag to worry about.
All weapons are obsoleted by homing rockets, a good way to balance it all out is to make different weapons good at different rolls.
Weapon dps balancing needs to include aoe into the dps, as what is written on the guns themselves is wrong, eg: hv artillery says 1100 damage per shot, but its actually doing 8850 damage per shot, this is why missiles are actually so much better than other weapons, missiles are doing 478 damage instead of 211.
Heavier ships accelerating slower than smaller ships can easily be done by limiting the amount of place-able RCSâs and thrusters per ship.
6.Might be a good idea to increase t1 block hp to at least 3/4âs of optimal block hp, so beginners flying their prefab ships donât melt in 5 seconds flying into a pvp planet :].
Would be good if manual weapons are limited to 6 per ship and auto weapons are limited to 8 per CV/BA and to 4 on HV, that way the lag will go way down and you would choose which weapons you want rather than shove everything on. With each weapon specialized differently it would make you stronger in some ways and weaker in another.
A nice way to split weapon types would be between Brawler, Kiter and bomber: Brawler: very short ranges 100m (on planet) very good dps 1/3 of kiter range more dps. (Plasma cannon, pulse laser) Kiter: good range 300m (on planet) decent dps good tracking (homing rockets, gatlingâs) bomber: very long rate of fire (30 seconds), mid range 200m (on planet), huge damage 10x that of brawler per shot (railgun, rocket (none homing) and Arty) if you miss its going to be a massive setback.
A nice rule of thumb for turret and thruster hp is for the hp to = the blocks they displace, so a normal auto turret 3x3x1 would displace 9 blocks on a cv so the hp would be 18k hp and so on, then thrusters could be on the outside of the ship which I hear Eleon wants to do sooner or later so might be good to start balancing for it now.
Would be nice if the t2 blocks for cvâs had 2k hp and combat blocks where turned into very expensive blocks costing something like 100 gold/mag/zas/ere each. But had 10k hp in compensation. That way if people had lots of resources they could add maybe 10 blocks to their ship to protect certain areaâs maybe their core maybe the cockpit. It would also add more Adrenalin per fight as your risking more to loose. The advantage of it being combat blocks would be that BAâs could use them as well. (Doubt anyone would make their whole cv out of combat blocks it would cost 250 000 gold bars⌠which is a lil crazy :P)
Another option would be to upgrade normal windows to 10x their current hp but limit only placing 24 of them so people can make proper cosmetic cockpitâs and still have it viable for pvp.
Assign points to each weapon type and allow any gun combination up to a specified points limit. As an example - Minigun Turret (2 points), Flak Turret (2 points), Plasma Cannon (5 points), Artillery Turret (10 points) etc. Then set a maximum number of points for a particular type of vehicle (possibly on a rising scale of class as well). A player can then place any combination of turrets and mounted guns which add up to no more than the set maximum. This would allow for weapons load-outs that suit the player rather than sticking on the max number of each turret/gun type.
Also - standard Sci-fi Capital Vessels have heavy weapons with a huge range in space, which is not the case at the moment. Let us have proper Sci-fi CVs rather than the castrated overgrown trucks we have at present.
Remove the top speed limits for each type of vessel and replace with a mass to thrust calculation , so a light vessel with high thrust will go fast, as will a well designed large CV with lots of thrust.
Empyrion Galactic Survival is very unique game, but there is something that will make this game even more unique and greater, that is cross server travel.
It is matter of time that more and more will discover this amazing game and will flood our servers with numbers we never sow before, how to prepare for that?
How to spread the load on the servers that those will be able to handle not tenths but hundreds of players?
Well it is already here Cross Server Warp.
I think if Elion developer team is serious and intend to compete with other incoming space sim games, they will start to work on this unique feature that is network of connected servers creating big universe that allows players to move without even need of leaving and joining another server. Name of network (universe) could be displayed in join server menu rougher that single servers.
Imagine server handling PVP zones as systems that any player in game will be able to join.
But to properly test it I suggest HWS should make bold move that any other servers will not dear to do and separate PVP from PVE by creating 2 or more servers with possibility of crossing over (CSW).
That will allow admins to see the big picture what is going on in the game, keep pvp playfields on pvp server ready for any huge battle or encounters that require more servers attention.
Still on PVP server could be some locations like ECC or peacekeeper systems but all pve planets and space with building allowed and starters should be on PVE server.
Large amounts of resources should be available only at PVP server, meteorites and small deposited at PVE so starting game will go smooth.
PVP server would have probably more system wipes to keep playfields fresh and ready for fights, PVE may not even wipes so often , some may want to build nice huge bases and maybe cities.
Rest I live to your imagination.
When I think of tackling the issue, or topic of PVP, I often think of what are the risks and rewards of PVP. Presently, I think the risks are negligable, due to the multiple ways of achieving invulnerable states (bunkers, Offline Protection, buried cores). This results, from what Iâve seen in a PVP exchange that follows a script similar to: 1) someone goes offline [PVPers seem to keep an incredibly close eye on the player lists], run over to their base(s), blow up turrets, go home before OP kicks in. 2) Player is online, others come to shoot towers, a response is mustered, the defender either chases off the attacker or goes offline after a defeat. In each case I can think of, neither side suffers meaningful loss- which I believe is supposed to be the point of PVP. The biggest loses I can think of, are people losing turrets off their garage ships, which I do account a meaningful hit, but can be evaded by not flying garage ships.
The above, are some of the problems of PVP, and how can we tackle them? Well, I have some thoughts as to that, so Iâll share some potential solutions instead of just laying out problems. 1) Remove bunkers - it is my opinion that invul states have no place on PVP battlefields. Also remove OP on GG. 2) It pains my credit loving heart to say this, truly, remove gold dirt on GG, replacing it with meteors that have higher yields per tick of drilling. This encourages surface dwellers, which encourages PVP.
More on CV combat, on CVâs all weapons EXCEPT Gatling guns be crew served ie a player controlling them. That would build teamwork or if the pilot flew alone he could stop his ship and get on a turret. This game could be the ultimate large ship space battle platform, we can already design our own ships and with the great ideas others have had about CVâs would be great, I personally dont care about SV combat, alot of us want CV battles.
The Main Reason Why me and Gareth stopped playing was not because of the game its self i mean weve played since patch 2 and know that things get nerved ect ect What killed the game for us this season was the fact that we kept getting disconected while in a pvp fight or while warping and then lost a lot. if it happend one in a blue moon then maybe it would have been okay but it kept happening and still is so maby if the devs could find out why this is happening and try to resolve it that would be good. other wise i agree with zappie I think targation on things inside the ship shoudl not be an option unless there was a hole through the structure ect.
BTW. Devs need make BA arty homing again. It is simple thing give a good buff to the BA defence against SV and HV.
