This is to REUSEVEN. I did not ammo drain your base, sure I died a lot. I consider ammo draining as someone who keeps spawning in front of base guns over and over. I did not do this, maybe once or twice but as soon as I realize there is no hope I chose med bay. I am not your sit on the outside edge and shoot turrets out kind a guy. I am in your face(or base) on foot taking on the base. This is why I die alot, I could sat in my fighter and finished off your guns and not died at all. But hey I gave you 48 deaths in attempting to take your base, would you rather I hadn’t died at all?
McProuty, I will shamefully say that in your base’s case I died too many times trying to take it and yeah I am guilty of ammo draining even though that was not my intent.
Rexxus, you have been putting up with me and Raven for about two years now and I commend you on your work and patience. However the rules on this server have never been too clear, in fact most rules have been made because of me and Raven and that is fine. There should be some rules, rules need to be clearly defined. The developers have never stated any rules in game, only server admins
REUSEVEN- again it is nothing personal, its just that we are getting close to 6.0 and a definite wipe is coming so we are on the warpath. Your base was fun to attack, really wish you would have been on but we hit anything wether or not if players are on or off, its the consequence of this server not having OP.
I will stay in prison it looks interesting, challenging maybe
From the rules: [quote=“RexXxuS, post:2, topic:4359”]
Anything over 10 deaths in a short time frame is considered excessive and is ammo draining and punishable by sentence to Elemental Prison, loss of property and/or Ban.
[/quote]
Good feedback and awesome attitude, BTW! I agree that rules are necessary to keep the boundaries clear and fair - and in this case there is no hardline definition of “Short time frame”.
Got any suggestions on how we can make this more clear? There’s a very good example of ONE WAY to ammo drain (of many), but many folks tend to think this is the ONLY punishable form of ammo draining. This could be expanded to include more examaples or be more general or hardlined – Most people dont read the rules till theyve broken them, but any way it can be made better is a good thing,
I don’t think Rex has ever assaulted a base in his life honestly. You can easily get more than 10 deaths in under ten minutes and not even in the same area of a base.
I died when Desert was assaulted and WKN didn’t have a base on planet. No big right? Respawn and run to allies. NOT! Everytime I spawned the “Alpha” game dragged me further away from my allies and closer to the enemy. after the 7th death I finally gave up and went to starter and was back to desert in about 7 minutes. Not everyone is set up to deal with that BS.
The entire 10 death thing is too little. 10 deaths x maybe 6-7 turrets in range burns maybe 100 ammo at best? I can fly a SV by two passes and burn that much and never get hit.
This rule seems specifically geared for drama llama’s and QQ IMHO. It needs to be revisited.
The best option would be a 5 - 10 second ghost to give a person a chance to get out of range or to cover but I’m sure there’d be a QQ exploit over that too.
Ok, but assuming we can’t change the GAME, while that’s all good feedback about what’s wrong with the existing rule – what WOULD be right in your opinion? Again, within the current game, no Wish listing - that’s an easy way out that Rex doesn’t have to keep the masses happy today.
Ps: this is exactly the part I pointed out was ambiguous; what is “short time frame”.
Reference the rule that was actually created by me, and I have attacked many bases in the past and I know 100% 10 deaths within a short time is ammo draining.
A short time being anything for 1 mins- 40 mins. So the minium time between deaths is 4 mins… This is just a rough guide but in reality, if you have respawned at med by and jumped into another ship and gone to take it on again this should take about about 2 mins and if you die in 2 mins your should give up your tactics… More people needed…better ship needed… Better approach.
The issue is players don’t like to admin defeat usually so will go to solo tactics on foot… Dying over and over until ammo runs out and then all of a sudden it is easy.
It should be a mission not to die that often… Of you are then like I said a review on tactics is needed, there isn’t anything wrong with withdrawing to come back again better.
I’m sure a lot of player don’t intend to ammo drain but if they took out a base and died x amount of time to do it… By drawing out ammo… Then it is ammo draining, of course the game mechanics can be blamed for all but we don’t want players to never build on planets through fear of offline ammo draining, which Is why we have to be strict on it to reassure players
I read your message and I understand and I agree it is nothing personal but rules are rules.
The admins did put the rules in place to keep most of the players happy…or no one will ever leave starter.
No worries man, I was using that as an example of how it is possible to die a large number of times without using the old spawn at nearest location, actually. Most of the deaths that I saw you get were you respawning, grabbing supplies and then trying to assault our base again on foot. I personally kept catching you right next to our base, trying new ways to get in. It was a blast, I never once complained about that particular aspect of it. I just love it as an example of how you can, in fact, die a lot without being a respawn-in-front-of-turrets noob.
When Op4 Alliance first invaded ICE I pretty sure I died at least 15 times just
trying to exit my ship. When defeated the above ground defenses and the defenders
evacuated I died at least another 10 times trying to recover my back pack from a well
placed underground(NOT BURIED) turret. Circumstances should dictate whether a
player is banned.
I also find it hilarious that a player can be banned for draining ammo trying to
recover their backpack. Yet One can just hover over a BA in a 20k block and
ammo drain. Guy on ground just wants his stuff. Guy in 20k block is
ACTUALLY AMMO DRAINING !!!
Perhaps if players added more Ammo Boxes. I use at least 4 large for every Ammo type
for my magazine room. If the invasion becomes an occupation I will add at least 1 more
magazine room.
@ZipSnipe I feel your pain mate. To show solidarity with a fellow HWS black sheep
I’m sure we can arrange for this bases removal. If player has allies we can remove theirs
as well.
I guess technically deaths do cost credits potentially.
Perhaps the mutiplier for death tax needs to go up to discourage frivolous dying? Or some logic to add penalties for > 2 deaths < 2m (hate to discourage actual legit pvp tho)
May be too much work for what it’s worth really. But I guess there could be a nightly scrub to jail people who have excessive deaths based on the above rule. Learning curve would see jail busy initially, but people would learn different tactics over time.
Ya, the death tax is nice for those who actually keep credits in their banks, but those are not generally the same people who would charge at a base naked lol. There is no penalty for being in the negative on EB, and so you can just not keep money there, and ignore taxes and death fees. It almost has to be an ingame mechanism that prevents spawn at nearest location after a certain number of tries. Then we could stop worrying about it. Because I totally see both sides of the argument here, yes it should be very possible to store more ammo than one person can drain in a day, and yes each spawn button hit only causes nearby turrets to fire once or twice. But you have to remember also that not everyone is set up to be able to have thousands of rounds of ammo just in case they get wasted on zombies. Plus that once firing burst, is actually a good deal more ammo than just a sentry gun killing you. In most cases it is literally every gun on the base firing. For people who are just trying to scrape by, it would be yet another reason pvp living is unsustainable.[quote=“hopskotch, post:14, topic:5296”]
Perhaps the mutiplier for death tax needs to go up to discourage frivolous dying? Or some logic to add penalties for > 2 deaths < 2m (hate to discourage actual legit pvp tho)
[/quote]
Also it does actually go up based on how many deaths you have. But again, that’s only a discouragement if you have money to lose.
Indeed. I see so many people who don’t even realize they have debt until they try to buy something.
I guess that leaves us with an I. Game solution, even if retroactive – thinking outside of actual game code changes, as I don’t think this will be a priority for Devs for a long while / ever (how big a problem is it in grand scheme?)
So nightly jail job, evaluate the death counts, sample every hour, if deaths in one hour > 30, 24 hr jail time? Randomly seize vessels once a week until debt is paid? Tough nut to crack with automation.
Right the cost goes up based on multiplier x deaths, but what about increasing the multiplier as a penalty (i.e., chronic ammo drainers pay double taxes). Again, only valid if debt was actually material.
Yup. Added social pressure: if you have a chronic debt dodger in your faction, you get pressure to have them kicked out so you dont lose your stuff as well. Of course, the obvious way around this would be to have one person in a completely different faction, all by himself, say the person who dies the most. Then just code all the things so he can use them anyways, while not actually owning them. But its a step in the right direction
