@Dreadstar - nicely measured post - I’m only here as one of my faction mates said someone had posted something sensible here… Thanks
Agree with all you’ve said.
My only issue with this whole, silly post: I think DevilFrog was in a different fight! He made totally false assumptions and assertions about us:
We were using gats (when no PvP pilot would make use of SV gats on HWS… Ever…)
We made a suicide run with his base at his back
His belief we were doing any more than aiming rockets, pulses and rails at the ‘center mass’ of his ship.
We fight with honour, we also fight will a great deal of experience AND a willingness to lose as little as possible whilst doing maximum damage, but never at the cost of glitching/exploiting.
His sporadic use of the word “cheat” is also pretty damn offensive, all of the above considered.
He had a chance here to come to us, say “you fought well, how do I go about learning to fight like this?” and we’d have obliged him with all the info we have. Instead, he comes at us with “cheat” and a complete unwillingness to back down and apologise, even in the face of all that’s been said.
I despair for his future in any online game, to be honest.
But thank you for bringing some common sense to what is, frankly, a ridiculous thread.
To be crystal then - you’re a cheat and lets add Liar that too.
Oh oh, stop stop using Gatlings as your excuse… I will happily admit in the confusion it could quite easily have been Lasers. So gats were the FOTM ( flavor of the months for MMO fans) last patch…oh sorry, my bad its lazers this patch isnt it. If you need explaininig how FOTM works, i will glady explain. People in every online game ever seek out the exploits, the gliches, the coding that gives them the advantage. What did you say at the start " lazers go through armor" - indeed they do - its called a Lag Shot.
You specifically did what you did to cause a lag shot. Anything your sycophantic echo chamber says will not change this.
Am I the only one that thinks unsubstantiated accusations or clearly false cheating reports should be punished? It’s ok to ask for something to be investigated but at a point where the accusation is based on nothing, was refuted by the admins and still is being repeated it should be sanctioned.
No, you are not.
And, there is NO video evidence! So why frog keeps shouting about cheat i really do not understand! Without any proof of some kind, there is no reason for this thread to live on! Let it die.
Frog: Next time, record every moment in pvp, it is just to delete it after. I have starting to do that! Got tackled so much at a period (red) so started to record each time i went to pvp…
I’ve been looking at your Pugio again( initially dismissed it as a lot of the devices were not compartmentalized) and come to the conclusion that the PvP SV i used does not adequately compensate for the inevitable, perfectly legal use of lasers or anything else. To be honest the ship was designed months ago and was only being used to use up completed blue prints.
Nobody here is a cheat, i apologize.
What i critically lacked were the specific details regarding countering the inevitable lag, this information has to be more widely publicized. We get info messages all the time in game, i think it would be grand if we had something like “WANT TO PVP ? Tired of getting shot out the sky in 10 seconds ? Look here at this forum post for ways to counter the most common pvp problems”
I know we have a pvp guide, but this anti-lag info needs to be very common knowledge.
the lag shotted pvp ship in question is now on the workshop : Abydos Avenger III
the updated version currently in use : ABydos Avenger 2999.
windows in front of the cockpit, who’d a thunk it could cause so much consternation
There is so much going on in this unpolished, unfinished, unoptimized game — there are constantly things occurring that on the surface dont make sense, and easily can be construed as cheating.
The first thing investigated should always be “what’s the game doing?” Followed by what am I missing that could make me more competitive.
I hope to be the first in to compliment you on seeing this through and offerring an apology to those you fought against.
Regarding lag, it was supposed to have been fixed a release ago ---- but, clearly not fully as they still occur. The building techniques used today are limited work arounds and ideally should not be needed.
They are also a balancing act — all the work arounds increase class size more than regular block, almost always.
I think wiseman offerred to build you an sv for you to learn from. Good offer to accept — if he remains willing.
Jebus guys. Its not difficult to understand, and you are not the first pair of people to start raging at each other claiming exploits. “Lagshots” are a VERY well documented bug, particularly in this server, and there are several known ways to mitigate them in any version.
First off, lets point out that there is NO WAY to induce a lag shot. It simply cannot be done 100% of the time. It occurs when a confluence of situations causes the projectile to not do a collision check on the first surface it hits. If all blocks behind that surface are solid, the next surface it can see will be the device behind that armor. Doesnt matter if its 3 layers of armor or 30.
Second, as to the recording thing, just get OBS and have it running in the background, and dump the video at the end of the night. It will save you some heartache, and you will be able to submit very specific info in a bug report, and help Eleon narrow down the situations for lagshots.
Ok now heres the learning bit that takes most people months to figure out on their own, when it comes to lagshots:
1: Do not charge at your enemy if they are firing. Increasing speed relative to the projectile increases chance of it “phasing” through the first surface and hitting your naughty bits inside. In testing I have replicated lagshots dozens of times, and I can tell you that 90% or more will happen when flying full speed towards a target, vs strafing, wheeling, and general maneuvering. Hell its almost safer to stay completely still, if your ship is tanky enough.
2: Whitespace. This is a simple concept once you get the hang of it, and if you have ever taken apart a PVP vets ship you will see immediately what I mean. Eleon may say all they want that lagshots are fixed, but I will continue to whitespace atleast the front of anything I build. Whitespacing is the process of using different angled blocks as filler (i.e pyramids or slopes) to create additional surfaces for the projectile to have a chance to collide with. Basically, If you go into godmode in singleplayer, and poke your head inside of your ship, you should not be able to see ANY devices at first. If you do, they are vulnerable. BE FOREWARNED: Whitespacing WILL skyrocket your class size. So use with caution. Oh and for the love of all that is holy, do not use the 6 way cylinder connectors as whitespacing for your whole ship.
Apology accepted. I swear on all things holy, the only thing I ever do in a PvP SV fight is aim and fire, generally centre mass; everything else is handled by the code. I detest exploits/glitching and have had conversations with people about it before now.
As for pulse lasers going through armour, my understanding is (as they are electrical pulses) they are designed to do minimal damage, but to pierce blocks, not due to lag but by design. I may be wrong, but that was my perception of them. Not an exploit, just using as intended.
Gats though, oh man, on HWS they’ve (quite rightly) been nerfed to oblivion. They’re more akin to a shotgun than an automatic weapon (and a weak shotgun at that).
I will admit to using a joystick for dogfighting though - I aim to post a video and set up guide for using on Empyrion, because with the right configuration it makes flying SVs, mining in HVs and battling in CVs much more fun
Oh they are. I am sure @RexXxuS will be along any minute to lock this up and warn him there will be consequences for making threads with no proof of actual cheating.
Its sad he has to waste his valuable time dealing with this kind of crap.
Oh I don’t know… Do you realize what we’ve just witnessed? Someone on the internet just admitted to being wrong and apologized. Maybe he should be rewarded…
I was staring at my pvp sv in god mode, checking all the angles, 8 layers of white space & pyramids in front., pyramids on the sides…only the top of the cockpit area, 5 blocks wide had just 3 solid layers, no white space, no pyramids, nowt. And i just said, i’m wrong. And i’m glad i’m wrong, as my estimation of the integrity of the server clientele went up 10 fold, hurrah for HWS.
Given your findings — splash damage, not lag shot is more likely to be the reason.
Three block layer may have been ok, depends on design and location. Absence of white space — in this case, I’m referring to it as a full empty block space layer between cockpit and 1st inner block layer (different definition of white space than used by mcprouty), is a likely culprit.
Keep in mind when building – hws guide includes rules about some aspects of design. One is all parts/devices of ship must be attached. Fully floating devices or parts of a ship are not permitted.
The spacing you are describing swiss used to be called dead spacing. Before they patched plasma in 4.0 (ish) so that it didnt splash damage inwards, it was necessary. It was a way to create a buffer zone without the weight of a full block. But the splash bugs that I have seen have not really been a matter of splash extending inwards, but rather more like the splash STARTED inside of the ship. Usually on the leading edge of strafing. But it is limited by ship speed, unlike lag shots. So only a big problem on sv’s, particularly small ones. What he did say that leads me to be pretty sure it was a traditional lagshot though was this:
Sounds like he found a space that wasnt whitespaced previously, and that accounts for hit cockpit being busted out.
