Armageddon - The blunder - Discussion

HWS General Discussion
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Why Arma was a bad idea

Right, I’ve been thinking about this for quite some time now, and I think I have finally been able to come to a conclusion.

Arma was a terrible idea. It probably did not seem so at first, however, let me elaborate in order to perhaps show you my train of thought. These are my opinions, and you probably
possess your own, as such, please humour me :).

Lets look at two different sections in the recent time-line of HWS: 1. Before Arma 2. After arma.

->1<- Before Arma existed PVP and the balance of interest was focused on the newly added Black Hole, which in its own way served as the ‘Pressure Cooker’ or focal point for space-based PVP. This worked. Factions and groups of players in general could not gain stronghold in the Black Hole due to the ever encroaching 24hr wipe.

Pvp was rife, players wanting a good quantity of gold would go to the Black Hole, and have to risk their ship and inventory in order to attain riches, or do POIs for other valuables.

Before the black hole? Pvp was concentrated on homeworld, as it would also present interesting avenues for players to attain wealth in form of gold meteorites across a wide number of planets. People could get entrenched by building bases, which would be somewhat vulnerable due to the PVP nature of the Homeworld system itself.

->2<- After Arma was implemented, we saw a gargantuan shift in the economy and PVP center of gravity (atleast for the blue alliance (PKA/FDM/TMP/ENA …)). Suddenly the Black Hole, including Home World becomes less profitable than the Arma PVE Goldrush. Arma was rising, pressures began mounting. We see players flock to Arma due to greed and the ability to make an unbelievable amount of gold in a small amount of time. This caused problems where diplomatic relations, play field stability and interest in other systems are concerned.

This basically broke the game. FST shows us the best example for player attitude regarding this.

-> Rush to arma to mine gold
-> Dont care about anything else in the game anymore
-> Not attack/do anything else but focus on arma

As an inside PKA player, I see
-> no more effort guarding fellow guardians on other planets
-> no more effort in attacking/doing space battles
–> This probably makes sense as everyone (INCLUDING pirates) seem to be focusing on Arma now, making the rest of the expansive galacy on HWS completely useless
-> coming home almost every day with either
–> nothing going on as noone is attacking arma (And people are rebuilding/stocking from the last mashup on arma)
–> shit breaking lose (very often) and everyone fighting on arma
–> (I dont think ive visited any other system in days).

As such, with the addition of Armageddon, the planet has suddenly seen a massive influx of players, breaking the playfield, and sucking the life out of every other system on the HWS server.

What a shame. I am bored. I wonder what your opinions are, if you agree with me regarding the colossal fail of an idea arma is/was, if you have any suggestions improvements?

Tell me if I am being stupid.

Yours
Rannekk

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I won’t totally agree with you.
Personally i grew quite bored with blackholes already before arma, and went there solely to mine much needed gold.

In the days before armageddon i would rarely see action in blackhole due to utter FDM/PKA domination in these area driving pirates away, and it was jsut a rush to see who can get to the meteorites first (and FST were already quite annoying back then). I actually saw an increase of fights here once we got busy with arma.

Homeworld battles weren’t really a thing for me, as its infact quite hard to get any action there due to the size of the place… and its not really crowdy.
And thats without mention that i’m not the biggest fan of space battles because my PC can’t handle it, and i’m playing a power point presentation whenever more than 2 ships start shooting. I waaay more prefer ground battle, and arma somewhat delivers on this.

Now, you’re analizing it from the wrong perspective - at least for FDM, we didn’t go to arma due to the gold rush, we went in hoping for PvP, hoping it would be a better focus point than the hopefull 1-hour window of the black hole (serisouly 1-2 hours after the restart blackhole is just as dead as the rest of the galaxy).
We hoped bases would attract people for fights, sadly its not the case most days.
PvP is hard to come by if you’re not easy to find to be atacked.

Now, as i said many time - doing arma to focus PvP is great, but the motivation driving people to it aren’t relly fitted to arma’s purpose.
What’s needed isn’t a huge ammount of gold raining, that anyone can grab staing clear of engamements, especially in PvE times, what is needed is something alike to capture the flag of king of the hill that will funnel loot and focus over mining to fighting if you want to get something.

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@RexXxuS del Gold from Arma. Help those greedy boys pls :beer:

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Ok great thanks guys enjoyed your read. I agree with a fair bit. Now for me:

I just want to point out I have not lost or really gained much gold since we had gold planets. Only Gold I have got is from Auto Miner and the odd occasion from black hole where someone missed it or homeworld.

Before Arma
Black hole was pointless for me as I can never be on when it resets. By the time I get there nothing hardly any action or gold.

Homeworld was ok but again not enough gold.

After Arma - for me this was great I now had a chance to get some gold and try and upgrade my AM’s. Added we now have a fair bit of PVP.

After thoughts
What ever happens I still want to be able to get gold. How about getting rid of Homeworld as much as its nice its pretty much not used now. Have a gold planet that CANNOT be built on. Also taxable if CV’s left there.

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Alright - I hope it’s the last Armageddon feedback we get because by now it’s getting redundant.

To make it quick:
It began with that topic and some other messages PVP planet´s

So gold wasn’t really mentioned but it is all the time the same: people want something but don’t have the details in mind.
So you wanted a pvp planet? Wtf go to homeworld. That what was the real hot spot idea. The planets there have gold, custom pois and even custom biomes.
But it was not cool enough for you. Or to big?! Well but hey, some guys complain that hws is a too small universe you know.

Anyways people need obviously a real reason and as mentioned is gold the most important reason.
Now you go ahead and complain even about the fact that gold can be mined at all. Especially the big factions complaining which have billions of gold. Not thinking of the small ones who are happy to catch up a bit.
So again complains complains everywhere.

If there would be a way to control resource contribution we would do it since the beginning. We are not stupid. But reading in 1 week like 20 times that gold shouldn’t be available during pve is just Wtf.

I can understand your boredom and/or frustration because of the long wait till 6.0 and problems naturally grow over time but this won’t help.

Because you always need to have in mind that what is cool for you is not cool for others.

Feedback is good and all but if the same faction request a planet AND complain about it at the same time then either the faction has problems or other things went wrong.
And not to forget that especially zappe is a fan of good pvp no lag and my thought was “ok, this guy want pvp action so much, let’s do it and trust him to sort it out”. What happened? PKA had millions of structures, 100% knowing that the good pvp no lag is just a fake and even ruined it.

It is no finger pointing but the honest question: What do you expect from this alpha game? Or other question: is your faction so big that you have multiple directions not matching in one at all?
Think about it, especially for 6.0 when it is needed to know what you are doing as a Team and not an organization.

Limits are needed. It got proofed once again. Check.
Gold is horded by people complaining about gold but on the other hand don’t know what to spent their gold for. (this will change in the future. Where credits become really important!) check.
We remove gold from Armageddon but implement a lot in Black Hole. Check (then we will see what you define as a pvp planet).

Huh. Wasn’t quick, was it? Damn. I should shut down my smart phone while I’m in vacation…

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Thanks for the reply rexxus. I’m speaking from personal opinion. Only because some people in my faction might have suggested the planet doesn’t mean I agree with them on any level whatsoever.

I can only feed back my own personal experiences. And so far it seems that whoever’s idea it was, must have been high.

It really depends on how players want to balance of the hws galaxy to exist.

At this time I agree there is the gold incentive, and I see your point. However this thread was not meant to frustrate you or even as a note to the mods. This is me airing my thoughts which have been building up over the last few days, with the idea to get some other people’s ideas in for my own and their purpose. It is not a complaint it is a request for food for thought.

In any case, as it stands, PvP on the HWS server has changed dramatically for better or worse. Now if it’s better or worse probably comes down to perspective.

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Hey @RexXxuS your never going to please everyone. You will make mistakes as we all do we are human. But bear in mind what you and your team have created is THE BEST SERVER EVER for this game. Yes I will rant and rave from time to time but I will always have respect and love for this server.

Yes your right not everyone in PKA have the same goals but that’s the beauty of PKA that we can all come together and help each other and other people. Its not a single policy alliance. Some of us want gold and some don’t.

Myself like gold and PVP but not always at the same time lol. I guess we go back to not getting any gold from black hole as it be all gone by the time some of us get there. But hey ho that’s life.

Oh and ps you seem to think PKA is rich with gold yes some members are but I myself I have less that 3 mill.

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Just to let you guys know Even though i have been in PKA/ MAD ect for a long time i dont even have 1 mil and also no rep points. I enjoy pvp but with all the lag shots ect it has dishartend me to play pvp at the moment maybe there shoudl be a planet where knowan can build on. and only have it as a pvp/pve planet with only hv’s and sv’s allowed on it. so there would be less lag on it then and it woudl be a planet that would have to be visited just like the black hole. Making a base there was fun and trying to defend it woudl have been fun too but the server can not take it and untill you can afford a better system maybe build within you system takign into mind that big factions team up with other factions and build together and end up crashing it over and over ther is one song that comes to mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CduA0TULnow
as far as pka crashing the server along with FDM and other alliances teamign up to fight of the pirets and hunters.
I hope in 6.0 the lag shots get sorted out so my cv’s ive made can come to life and have some pvp action.

This is my oppinion and not my factions oppinion!
ALOS woudl liek to say REXX and The admins you are doing a FAB job in tyring to keep this interesting for all players but like gunslinger said you can no tplease everyone. Just Do what is best for the server that you have and the Equipment you have to work with if peopel dont liek it then they know where the door is! You are all fab and you have my respect as well as my loyalty to your server so plese do not be dishartend with this post its just people letting there thoughts be known whether you can or can do anything about it dont worry about it. but read it there may have some iders there for you guys in the future.

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Interesting.

@RexXxuS I thought u create Arma for PvP battles on SV/HV, arent u?.. For such reason - there is no need in gold on such planet.

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Than make it wipe in prime-time. Than ALL would had some chances to farm something, except iron or prom…

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While I haven’t played on Arma (yet) I am grossly familiar with this equasion.

“Back in the Day” this was Saturn. The server had not matured to embrace PVP and it used to be that any group capable of agressive PVP were jackers and trolls…ask me how I know? I spent 3 rotations in prison for guiding excellent PVP players in my troup.

However, more to the point, Saturn was an extraordinarily good planet to have control of. Tripple to Quintuple gold spawns, and when the PVP community caught on, PVP ripened to constant pressure.

Saturn helped Shape what you see now with Homeworld systems , black hile was a purely new but findamentally related concept, and now Arma.

Strictly speaking, A planet starts to break down in its stability after about 10 players…this is NOT going to be this way forever as planets are going to expand to about 5 times their current size in the near future, and more dedication will be leveled to tame these instabilities.

So you will just have to hang in there and be patient. Once the code matures to accomodate 50 players before breakdowns your dissapointments will drift vastly elsewhere.

But in the mean time, offer up you input as just that. Feedback.

If anyone is thinking I am kissing Rexs ass for saying, you should know, that not all that long ago we did not get along because the server hadnt discovered PVP yet.

However, I have come to appreciate the work he and his crew put in to make our server what it is.

So try again to bear in mind…the code is still in its infancy.

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I agree. You are spot on, if the code is in its infancy, how is implementing this planet viable?

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Its a try. Most stuff is based on trial and error in this case. Would you prefer nothing be done for the sake of never being wrong?
They’re doing what they can, and its true we don’t have an impartial point of view on the subject.

I agree with Rex with most things he pointed to (expect HW being a viable PvP place, but that’s offtopic). Thats the end of the imput for me for now, lets leave Rex to enjoy his vacations.

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Its viability stems directly as it is the evolution of a “crown world” to quote SOTS.

Its importand to observe and implement such territories to give good teason to compete altogether simply for its rewards for taking over a planet or territory like it.

Having a cadre that can produce 9k in resources in every dept save rares is an extremely powerful tool to sustain combat efforts.

Meaning that if 10 people have autominers to 10 in everything, chances are good a smaller less advantaged force will be ordinarily unable to outlast who they wish to compete against.

This has the effect of establishing seniority, and dominance.

So that, a vastly less prepared force that does win the field, likely will not have done so without being vastly superior strategically. And that is where me and my players tend to come in.

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OR hitting the enemy when they are offline. :-p Not saying you specifically, but unless you include offline raids as [quote="_Ghetto_Two_Shoe, post:14, topic:4981"]
being vastly superior strategically.
[/quote]

then you are ignoring a huge reason why most bases on HWS fall. Generally speaking, it will not be when the defenders are online. Until they fix turret targeting a bit, as well as tweak ranges so that victory attacking a base is possible, but not guaranteed, no base is capable of defending itself offline. That has been the case for as long as I have been playing the game.

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Hey Rex,

Here’s what we like about Arma -

  1. Gold (yeah!)
  2. PvE rotation - we don’t have to be online 24/7 to defend ourselves.
  3. No CVs - we didn’t have to worry about people building bricks to snipe your turrets/bases.

What we didn’t really like -

The LAG! Why was there so much lag? Something to do with structures dying constantly etc… That’s basically it, anything else is just people over complicating it.

Improvements:

  1. Limit base devices.
  2. Limit HV classes
  3. Limit SV railguns? (stupid annoying that they can snipe turrets)

Armageddon is a great Rex, plain and simple. Homeworld was great in concept, but the Universe was so big it was hard to encounter people. Also, because the planets were constant pvp you had to be basically online 24/7 to protect yourself.

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+1 i like great minds think alike :slight_smile:

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Bases are not intended to be permanent structures unless placed on a PVE world.

On a PVP World:
They are intended to:

A) Provide a fortified position
B)Refer to A for all other questions

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Im not even sure on how to take this…

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+1, spot on. Lots of noise and complaints and general lack of gratitude.

This post is even an affront to Rex and Achilles even saying (paraphrased) “Armageddon topic is dead, you deal with what you got now, no more discussion on arma. We tried to help, you just bitch…” and here, theres a new post just to bitch about the hard work these guys put into our enjoyment AFTER they already threw their hands up in utter disappointment at the community.

Sad. but THANK YOU Rex, Jascha and Achilles for all you do!

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