But it is a building game. Seriously?
Good points. What about going to 1 base per faction, or 1 artillery per base?
I can agree with that.
A good reason to not go too low on block count - lag!
You might try a TLDR, lol
Well said. How could anyone be against this idea? It seems the only argument should be about where to put the limit. 100 - 1,000,000 room for all opinions in this discussion.
Orca has 9299 blocks.
Mammoth tank has 5580.
They are both near class 1 limit. (aka 1.49)
You are probably right thanks for your insight
A long-overdue and welcome change. Iâd like to see 1000 block limits for Class 1 (SV, HV and CV), even if itâs only on some far flung space playfield as a test. A 10,000+ block Class 1 is just silly.
The working parts of a ship (devices, guns etc) come to only 100-200 blocks. The rest is spent on layers and layers of cheesy armour. The current meta seems to be long nosed SVs (30+ front layers) filled with sacrificial devices to attract fire, with guns sticking out at the back. Every damn time. Then they just sit there macro firing all weapons.
I think the real problem is that weapons (and thrusters) cost far too little towards the Class size, so nobody is making any design decisions (what to leave out), the only decision right now is how to arrange max guns and thousands upon thousands of blocks of armour with literally HUNDREDS of thrusters to move these ugly bricks. This should not be possible at Class 1.
SV DPS support HV tanks i agree with that.
I do want to mention, no matter the tank/SV/BIG BRICK. If its a sitting duck, less then 30 seconds from SV manual guns and its toast. Every last one⌠So its not THAT bad.
True duels take a while When they Use âTacticsâ And run away (Backup) Forever useing homeing only.
But a Real duel where both charge each other and use All guns is always less then 15 minutes. And is VERY fun!
Current meta is pretty darn good!
Thereâs definitely something to be said for last season. From what I heard it was a great season with lots of fun. The big factions and alliances reigned supreme and I think as far as Empyrion goes it was the closest I heard of the game coming to actual war. That being said I also heard a lot of complaints and if I heard a lot of complaints that means Rex heard even more.
Most of the people I see saying âwas the best seasonâ usually came from one of the big factions/alliances and enjoyed the most benefits from the previous season. Rex doesnât just deal with the big factions/alliances, he also deals with all the new players and is constantly trying to consider them when thinking of the server.
No there arenât. I can safely say thereâs no way to make a class 1 SV that is over 20k that is also mobile. I think I saw a 12k one at some point, but that thing can barely move and ended up getting scrapped by the person that made it iirc. Exaggerating doesnât help this discussion in the slightest.
Well for sv vs sv fights it would be nice if block count was 1000 and under. However we also like to use svâs to attack bases, these svâs need meat up to 6000. So yeah figure a way to balance that.
Eleon Game Studios is going to focus on more PVE anywaysâŚ
according to their survey.
Greetings all. I have read many of the post and most say that you cant have over 20k blocks. This is not true I have designed and built 3 ships that were over 20k blocks. They both show class 2 as they were over 1.5 as far as the class scale. as shown from the screenshot. I have deleted the other blueprints as the meta is in constant change and I dont like to clutter my saved BPs.
I agree with many of the statements that there has been too many big changes in such short amount of a time. I do not believe that changing the block limits would be the best choice. I believe we should refine what is currently coded. Why should Rex have to spend the countless hours trying to come up with another way of limiting items when we can simply work with what we have.
The size class should be changed. What was allowed on GG last season changed from having a ship of 1.49 (Class 1) to being able to have a 1.99 Class 1, then it was reduced to 1.7 something then reduced to 1.65 (or something close to 1.65). This is how I was able to design such a large ship.
I am suggest changing it back to itâs original purpose by having GG HW and âPvP Hot spotsâ govern by class size. Adjust the size class 1 to be a hard limit of 1.49 or 1.25. If we wanted to make things real interesting, have GG and HW as micro class playfields - all ships would have to be under 1.0. This would solve the âsoakerâ issues and make the pvp fights shorter. Lava and the other pvp playfields could be class 1. (up to 1.25 or 1.49).
Adjust the Size class then we can refine the gun damage and base counts etc.
If Rex is heck bent on imposing the block limits and disregards my suggestion of 1st try and change the class limit, then I say the following block limits:
CV: <250
SV: <2500
HV: <3000
Justification for my block count:
CV:
This just needs to be a transport to and from the planet. not a âsoakerâ or a ship that cant be killed before it can warp. There needs to be RISK. There are plenty of Warp sleds and pods that can get you on/off planet.
SV:
I have had a ton of fun flying the OGG Scorpion - many of you know the design (and have killed it) There is nothing to the ship(700block count, but is a OMG blast to fly!! I also have a 2500 block ship that many know as the Glowstick. It is fun to fly and can last for a bit under fire, but any prolonged fights you will die (over 10mins).
HV:
We need something to kill bases with. and Tanks should have slightly more blocks as they can only traverse the ground. The Fenrir is under 3k so Rex would not have to change all the garage ships to make this change.
I will close with Rex will do what he wants with the server and it will be up to the playerbase to either adjust or play elsewhere. I have supported HWS with 2 planet donations and several other upgrades and I am happy to do so. HWS has more players (even the salty ones) and content than any other server. While I might not agree with all the changes or how the changes are implemented all the time, I respect the fact that team HWS is trying to give us content and provide the best hardware i have seen. I will continue to support this server as long as the content is there and i have fun playing here.
Wisemanâs thoughts part 1 (there will be a part 2 once iâm home from work).
Good morning all, time for me to weigh in on this:
First I have a few questions for anyone if someone has an answer:
I have two different opinions based on two scenarios:
Scenario 1: Block limits are able to be changed based on the playfield. In this case iâd support block limits as it would give smaller PVP factions a chance as specific PVP playfields could have more restrictive block counts on SVs and Hovers thereby reducing the chances of players and factions from nuking their base quite so easily.
Take the new planet in Donare East (Altimus or something) which is mostly water, reducing the number of base-spots available, however also acting as a good defence against hovers and svs.
By reducing the block count on a planet such as that you would give the less PVP-orientated factions a chance to get a feel for how setting up and maintaining a base works which is undoubtedly; a good thing.
Furthermore you could once for all cripple/annhialate those pesky things we call âsponge cvsâ Instead forcing them to be simple landers by reducing the block count to about 600 or such.
Scenario 2, a global block limit
In general I would be somewhat torn on this one, but we would have to be VERY careful as-to how we do it without forcing a complete change on the PVP meta that has been oh-so-successful for this season and the season prior.
Let me back this up by appeasing people with some facts and figures:
Here is the HP on an enemy baseâs guns:
Arty Turret HP: 18500
Rocket Turret HP: 12500
Flak Turret HP: 10500
And now hereâs the damage of an SVâs Dumbfires and Homings combined:
Homing 155-HMSL: 4x400=1600
Dumbfires 155-MSL: 4x700=2800
Total: 1600+2800=4400Damage per Salvo
So now letâs work out how many volleys a ship firing dumbfires and homings would have to use to take out a single arty turret:
So for this iâm going to divide the Artyâs hitpoints by the damage per salvo:
18500/4400=4.2 And in this case a ship canât fire â4.2â times so we must round it to 5. So a ship has to fire five salvos of dumbfires and homings at a single enemy turret in order to destroy it. (I have no problem with this, this is mathmatical fact and is part of the Meta iâve been enjoying so much). However it does become a problem if you try and limit the block count on these playfields too radically. Letâs calculate how long in seconds it would take to destroy the enemyâs artillery turret:
Time to destroy=(We will go with 4 seconds as thats the longer one for homings) 4per salvo X 5salvos=20 seconds if the player is point-perfect with their clicking and aiming.
So a perfect SV pilot still needs his ship to last 20 seconds in order to destroy a single arty gun. Therefore his ship still needs to be tanky enough to do-so.
For instance a tanky SV can be just under 4000 blocks, but it becomes more an academic than arithmatic discussion as to where the line should fall. I for one would have a fixed block count at around 6000 on planets with bases and PVP hotspots so that players can exercise maximum creativity in their building whilst also building for functionâŚ
Therefore my main point here is that if you impose a too radical block limit (too low in this case as âtoo highâ isnt a thing thanks to the class limit). Then you would have to Rebuild the entire META again.
Need to really go to work now, part 2 to be continued!
The suggestion is playfield specific - not global limit.
This i could deal with! Cheers for the heads-up Ranzeth and seeya later! 
I could get behind these block counts, though youâd definitely need a bunch of buddies in order to take out a base - and hey I think thatâs okay.
My thoughts exactly.
In addition, reducing the block count is going to force players to go for the more effective designs, minimalist boxes. With elevated block limits [most] people make somewhat aesthetically pleasing ships. With higher or no limits it increases creativity. Why not make it a hard class 1 cap like in season 6 and the beginning of 7? It was kind of fun going overclass and needing to retreat for repairs.
I was under the impression that Class 1 was where the cutoff was, thanks for the correction. With ships well over 20k blocks it makes the problem even worse though, especially when considering the extreme gap between new players and big factions/alliances when considering PvP. You can say all you want that âGG/Homeworld/[insert area] isnât for newbsâ but at what point do you stop chasing off new players? If all new players get a bad experience because they want to play a bit different but you just steamroll them all with big fat sponges cause thatâs the way you want to playâŚ
It is a good point though, âToo many changes too quicklyâ The problem is, the people rejecting this change reject every single other change as well. Also, there are very few people that take to the forums to help Rex with actual suggestions, most people only come to the forums to report issues or gripe about Rexâs intended changes.
Most of the responses are knee-jerk reactions to things Rex has already decided on to try and lessen the âseverityâ of his decision. Wise, Chaplain, Grizzly, Ranzeth, DarkMiracle, and one or two others are the most frequent posters(Iâm not even in that group yet) but hardly agree on anything. The rest I only see when Rex makes a post about things he is planning to implement and then everyone rushes to say âno, no, no!â
I like the idea of limiting block count for SV / HVâs in PvP Hotspots.
However, in order to be successful it canât be different limit in every PvP hotspot.
Scenario:
SV Limit on GG --> 3000
SV Limit on HW --> 4000
One player would have to design 2 different types of PvP SVâs, One to each playfield.
No proble, itâs only couple hours time investment to fix that! HoweverâŚthis results in overall increase of cores in server which also was a problem.
Obviously the problems grows with each type effected & how many different limits are on PvP hotspots.
Should you create limit for all CV, HV, SV & different limits to HW, GG & 3rd hotspot⌠weâd already talk about 9 different ships per active PvP user.
Tl:dr
Limit blocks good
different limits for different PvP hotspots bad
Personal opinion - limiting SV block count has got to be worth trying.
Suggestion, to use a google ad word type phrase, implement a split test - that is select one PvP hotspot planet and implement and another other leave at current meta (Arma/GG?). Perhaps if possible do a spilt server test as well - EU on/ NA off.
See how the player feedback builds up over time.
See how the player activity builds up over time.
Then favour the meta which the evidence is proving players are gravitating towards.
I am open to hearing the experiences of all the different kinds/types/factions/solos on HWS. Just to be clear I was mainly referring to the survey that indicated last season was the best in addition to my own personal experience. And I suspect Rexxus knows exactly what he is doing in regards to HOW to balance the game. My only real critique was that the changes for the balance were/are coming too large and too frequent for solo players on up to largest faction to adapt/have a consistent gaming experience. In my opinion the best change causes a TRANSITION for the playerbase.
Couldnât agree more but I think Rex is using this âseasonâ as his personal test lab. As long as it doesnât completely blow up then everything is fineâŚ
Lol.
