With as long as battles take now I really have no ambition to build or even spawn in an old class 5 bp, its more a battle of numbers and stamina at this point. If carbon blocks can’t be damaged as easily then these fights will last hours depending on the number of players on each side. Might as well revert to ALL PvP areas to class 1 restrictions.
Here are some videos that prove the point that shields and carbon blocks should be removed from pvp. A ships shield in pvp are the layers upon layers of blocks protecting it. Shields are made strictly for pve. Pve ships have exposed cockpits which tells you right there in no uncertain terms that shields are made for pve only. Pvp cockpits are covered by layers upon layers of strong blocks and these are their shields!
On my checkered knight hv i was tanking like 5 plus enemies without shields. This tank was made with combat steal hv blocks not hv carbons and still weren’t able to kill me and i was pretty decently mobile too. My movement made it hard for them to hit me too. 
Also, i would have lasted much longer in that fight if i had my auto-reposition key set working which i hadn’t, and got alot of my few hovers that i had on shoot off. So thats why i had to pull back.Anyways, that checkered knight has been updated with more hover and its less likely it will flip as much anymore. https://youtu.be/YsEhx5q37CY
Also, heres another one with plain hv combat steal blocks, and lasted a long time and with no shields against like 6 enemies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8motUSQIhdY
Also, here is another video from about a day ago this season of a hv with plain combat steal for hv’s tanking like 7 plus enemies. I’m not sure if this was a carbon hv though. But anyways, thats further proof that we already have decent blocks to last a long time in pvp without an overpowered block like carbon and then plus shields.
i don’t think shields should be removed but definitely tweaked. sv micro fighter battles are still pretty brutal. especially 1v1. perhaps have pvp zones slowly drain shields if possible. call it a radiation nebula if u will. carbon blocks are definitely OP currently. all in all i do like shields and carbon blocks but they really need work to make fighting against another player more tolerable.
I have no expertise on the PVP advantages of the blocks beyond their HP and weight but:
- As a new player I wasted diamonds from the first day because my builds do actually use carbon substrate blocks for decoration, contra to the belief I have seen on HWS. Indeed many workshop ships do this. The special nature of Carbon on HWS is not apparent and actually quite difficult to find information on. It also means that new players will find it strange when they build ships. My current CV for example has incredibly tough decoration (carbon) and weak actual armour (combat steel). Not the end of the world, but it seems most people in this thread are HWS veterans from established alliances who may not realise how weird these things are when you first start.
- Carbon blocks are easy to get. It also means that you don’t really need to worry about thrust for SVs as the best block is so light i.e. it makes designing a ship very straightforward. Ideally, when thruster damage is implemented there will be important trade-offs to be made between armouring and thruster placement, but I suspect this will not really be an issue on HWS for SVs as the best armour also weighs a fraction of what SVs on other servers would be built of so you only need a fraction of the thrust.
- Xeno steel is massively underpowered in the original game as it is difficult to get, but of little actual value. I can easily have a 30K Sathium ship within 24 hours, but a Xeno one would be much harder to get the resources for. On HWS it is still the hardest block to get, but is actually worthwhile-fine work on the Xeno blocks IMO in comparison to the carbon ones… I hope Xeno is at least better than carbon for CVs atm.
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Fion you may want to read the EWS, Xeno and Carbon don’t compete so much as fill different roles.
A new meta started so I’m looking forward to your feedback soon.
Thanks so far for your valuable insights!
carbon blocks are better now and while raising the cv steel hp is good, i think they went a little too high. haven’t rebuilt my ships yet but i think this may be an issue. also on shields, i love how they drop faster with manual fire as opposed to turrets. i do feel the volume is a bit ridiculous though. not sure if it can be differentiated from the rest but can we try 2-5k max? would make it more like a fuel tank with refills.
already conducted testing steel is fine
all blocks are even, with xeno being strongest but rarest, carbon being lightest but weakest (within 15% of combat steel) and combat steel being heavy but inbetween.
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Not sure about balanced,
IF carbon was just a normal block you could make without a 200 000 credit extra reagent per 500, then yes, all things would be balanced, as it stands to build a typical class 1 SV costs an extra 2.25million credits worth of diamonds, and then to repair them you must use these reagents also, Carbon has been nerfed a bit too hard. OR it needs the diamonds removing from the repair and construction process.
Its a joke now. can’t see why anyone would ever use it.
On CV its now making it so you have to pay the price of a good garage ship to build your craft in diamonds, for what? a paper hull that is a bit lighter? could just make it from plain steel if you wanted that, without putting 8million credits of a commodity into that ship.
warning: salty that wasted a hundred million credits on diamonds, and processed them all into carbon blocks for them to change value mid season so radically ¬¬
what’s the logic in making carbon fibre weaker than steel now?
it was a bit op fair enough, i remember watching 5 CV pound on a sv for 5 mins and it didn’t go down,
but as an end game material to have less hp than hardened steel doesn’t make any sense.
Would have been a better move to make it the same hp as highest grade steel but diff resistances. so it still had a use. no one cares about weight reduction if it costs hit points, and loads of money!
Changes like that are always so radical here :’) no testing the water, gradual boil, incremental changes, instead just straight up gut punches.
To make it balanced vs the cost, carbon hulls need to have some major advantage to offset the involvement in diamonds in construction and repair, or remove the use of a trade good that cannot be carried in the ocd for repairing them from that at the least, construction of the blocks and blueprints probably too, or its just nonsensical for them to exist as they are now, buff them in some way or just revert them to normal plastic blocks with the little hp bonus vs vanilla that they are now but without the diamonds involved.
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Carbon is still used on pvp since its repair time is 1/1000 than xeno or combatsteel. Thats already a huge advantage. Have you ever tried to repair a xeno cv?
With carbon 1.000 blocks costs 250.000.
Xeno 1.000 blocks costs 1.500.000 of credits. (paying only 300 each xeno substrate…if avaible…at that price)
Steel - 50 hp, 10 kg, multiple weapons in EWS that deal increased damage, nothing is dealing decreased except for some player handheld weapons.
Carbon - 125 hp, 5 kg, no weapon from EWS deals increased damage.
Carbon does have it’s uses, for ships that are built around high thrust/turn patterns. Not for ships made for facetanking opponent. The commodity itself is not rare either if you collect daily loot.
Although I do agree that if you buy diamonds from market/npc traders, making ships can be quite costly compared to collecting them from daily loot. Anyway, this main idea of this thread is about overall pvp balance, not economics around it. And I’m sure that buffing carbon again will raise a lot of issues regarding survivability of ships and meta pvp.
I honestly would love to be able to stuff diamonds in my ocd. say like 100-500max would be sufficient.
Those comparisons are irrelevant. Carbon no longer compares to either of those materials in any way whatsoever and it certainly wouldn’t replace either of them.
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Changing the main material meta mid season was a absurdly stupid idea, I’ve seen almost 20 people quit the server over this, some even quit the game.
and that’s just in my faction alone
This kind of mid season meta change forces 2 things to happen.
Firstly since the majority of players don’t use this forum, they suddenly found overnight their ships they had spent millions on to get the best materials and worked so hard on are now all paper being blown apart without any explanation.
Secondly the ones who are aware now have to spend several hours redesigning a fleet of ships that was only just starting to settle from the last changes.
REX has lost some very well paying customers over these mid season gut punches to the meta.
And many players have lost hundreds of millions of credits and days of playing for buying diamonds and making carbon blocks.
This has been the worse season by far.
First the changes to the class limits makes the weeks of testing and development of combat class one capitals wasted now this.
It’s almost like someone’s trying to make everyone quit 
Save these radical changes until next season and give plenty of warning so people can stop wasting money on the best ship materials only to have them turned to the worst the next day.
These knee jerk changes have to stop.
Gradual changes is the key.
You cannot fast boil a frog. It always jumps out the pan.
Slow boil or eat something else.
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The question is, did the people leave because they spent time creating special carbon designs, or because they bought millions of blocks to sell on and profit, and now lost money?
I had to throw away multiple blueprints due to this and still play - I even welcome the change as it made pvp funnier.
And i havent heard any PvPer complain about that - only traders who wanted to make quick money
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i can’t count how many times i have had to scrap and rebuild. it is frustrating at times but it can help evolve ship designs to keep them from getting stale. surprise your enemies with new builds to keep them guessing. using the same ships can make an easy target once its weak spots are found.
Agree the game needs to evolve and change to keep fresh,
that’s not the problem though, and yes we have all had to tear our ships apart and put them together again plenty of times, thats not the point here either.
At the end of the season we all expect the meta to change a little, most of us use the time between the patch coming out and the server been updated to get all our models up to speed.
The issue here is the dramatic change of making the best material in the game into practically the worse, overnight, mid season, with practically no warning other than some offhand line on a post somewhere that half the server wont have read.
I agree something had to be done to nerf diamond,
¬_¬ but it went the wrong way, it was supposed to be an elite material, and where the server messed that up was by literally handing out daily diamonds for no reason.
Making it both and endgame item AND a daily common loot drop everyone gets plenty of every day was a very silly move. Of course people were all going to build ships from that and nothing else.
Thing is, the idea of super blocks that are very hard to get hold of is a great idea, just its been very badly implemented due to the server over-reacting to peoples demands, everyone said there should be more diamonds in the game, and instead of putting a few traders that sell them in some kind of bulk, or more of them as rewards for missions you could farm, the server just started spitting them out everywhere with zero effort involved by the player, like confetti.
so no one cared if they had to use them to repair or build anything, they knew for a fact they would be getting more later, for a 100% certain and with zero effort on their part. bad play.
Should really have been so rare that people only used it for a thin coating on the ships at best just due to the difficulty getting it, instead we got it were it was vaible to build everything out of this super abundant constantly regenerating elite material whole, no metal at all or even xeno, just pure carbon.
what would have been a much much better idea would have been to take the damn daily drops of diamonds out and make people REALLY have to work to get them, like only from traders on GG or in the phoenix poi/sphere poi.
You can’t have something be end-game AND given to someone for free without doing anything on day 1 and all days afterwards, at the same time.
For those of us who’ve played minecraft, remember the joy of finding your first diamonds, now think how much less that would be if the game just spat 7 diamonds at you everytime you’d logged in anyway.
The changes to the weapons, economy and then this ontop jarring for newer players to keep up with.
Damage is done now, my point if any is that this kind of thing should be left until the end of season in the future.
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Was a rough season from the start, we were all floating aimlessly in space.
I listened to the hearts of so many guys just fall out of favour with this game with the state of pvp at the start of 10.5.
Our faction went from many numbers, to just a shadow of a faction within 2 weeks.
We had a lot of fairly new guys so their first impression of pvp for this game, was what they were given on HWS for 10.5.
Poor guys, we probably wont see any of them again.
Then all the blocks changed again and well thats me out of PvP also now 
I had just finished a class 5, and right now i just cba with making new ships after just finishing making new ships and not having even a chance to test them.
Total waste of my precious godlike time.
We are at a crucial time of fixing mp pvp issues and you change the blocks during ? this made no sense to me whatsoever but then I expect no less from decisions made by people who do not even play this game !
There was way too much shit to deal with this season to have the blocks changed half way through.
I have started making PvE ships out of plastic instead.
I am working on boats again ! finally some stability in the game ! something that works !
Ahahaha I resort to boats for game stability ? that’s gotta be saying something.
My Motivation for this game has now dwindled to the point of being daily loot logger.
I dont blame rex for this, I dont blame eleon either.
The blame sits squarely on the shoulders of the HWS PvP community itself.
They want fixes but they don’t go report on eleon because of a pessimistic attitude and so wait for months for me to post??? by then its too late most players have quit…
They say “but the pvp crowd will slam us down” well yeah sure of course, if you go on eleon and talk like an entitled dick head, the pve crowd will slam you eleon will slam you and I will slam you.
They are too hostile when it comes to giving real feedback or asking for eleons help, so they get nothing.
They want PvP so badly yet the game has absolutely no supporting features for PvP besides the alliance request button…
They have not noticed this yet due to lack of overall intelligence.
Weapons and shields are a by product of PvE.
Yet they seemingly ignore that fact and so PvP will never have a structure in this game or real supporting features.
Everything will always keep changing on HWS simply because PvP players cant kill other pvp players, they still have not figured out that their own PvP design concept is what fucks them the hardest.
And I really really hope CPU is activated hard on HWS and they all get slapped in the face with it, and that slap feeling is your reward for all your constructive feedback and help on eleon forums ! ha
I hope it comes with thrusters need to be exposed
The point is the pvp crowd here are a rigid and inflexible bunch of antisocial misfits who could not represent a potato, let alone this games future interests in pvp.
These guys just don’t know how to flex, they got no game. Just seems like they are all on menstrual cycle. They all sound the same and they all lack basic social skills, and this is 100% factual reason for PvP in this game being a stale turd.
I wash my hands of this nonsense lol.
You can find me on GTA V simulating mass based murder and other vicious crimes.
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Wow 
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what he said 
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