For Reference (not debate), The NA Scrapyard standard rates are as follows:
Standard base rates:
0-5000 blocks = 55% goes back to the customer
5001 - 10000 blocks = 50% goes back to the customer
10001 + = 45% goes back to the customer
And then a discount structure typically provides a 10% additional discount based on volume, loyalty, new customer, etc… So you can typically assume it’s applied.
Devices did not get returned, only blocks or credits. Cargo/Ammo did not get returned and it did not increase value.
Here’s some fun facts Over the span of the NA Scrapyard Operations:
Total Blocks scrapped: 519,946
Total Vessels Scrapped: 63
Total Block Value provided to customers: 8,912,971 CR
Total Block Value provided to employees: 5,241,015 CR
Average House Profit: 54%
Average Customer profit: 46%
Total contracters employed over time: 6
Customer Satisfaction Rate: 98.5%
The context is there to show that the return values were sufficient for both customer and scrapper to be successful and equitable to the scrapper spending the 2-6 hours scrapping the vessels.
I thought its a good idea to make that tool like the AM miner level!
lvl 1-10 and you geth 30-75% of Blocks back. Devices are not needed!
And its a good idea that this tool costs credits. Like 1 Block 2 Credits or something. Then Credits get a sence…
But pls dont use RP for that tool. It would be very sucky enough when all RPs looses on every 2 Months wipe.
Then nobody has enough RP and nobody wants to fight (and loose RP on death) again… Not again pls. Remenber at 5.0 beginning… the first 4 weeks was horrable for pvp
there is talk here of requiring RP for each demolition - but if new regime is wipe every 2 months, sureLY this is onerous? need to allow peep to easily strip down their favourite ships every 2 months…
1# Can be used anywhere.
2# A time delay until the ship get’s recycled, the timer is just in case the ship is being contested.
3# You only get combat blocks back. This is really the only problem with scrapping ships.
4# 0 RP cost 0 credit cost . There is no point penalizing new players
5# 30 to 50% return. Something where scrappers stay in business.
I want to spend more time fighting and less time meticulously repairing big damaged sections of my ship block by block.
I would use this to scrap and reblueprint my ships rather than having to repair them. It would suck if it was too harsh/expensive to use. I feel like an easy ship repair system is overdue.
Many things are in the hopper as high desire items, but while we wait, we’re exploring what we CAN do. We’re not getting a BP repair option any time soon. Any suggestions on the possibilities we have today?
24 hours stops a lot of complaining in the future XD (didn’t get a chance to recapture my base back QQ’s)
70% makes it easier to get back into PvP.
My only thought would be that the 70% is a bit cheap the more expensive it is the more salvagers would stay in business, but with the 2 month reset it can’t really reach super high prices, personally I would think 2mil would be decently balanced.
Some quick calculations:
If a salvager with max level wanted to sell his service to people with 50% he would more than likely give them 60% back and keep 10% as profit assuming 10k block average ships that means 1k blocks profit per ship converting that to credits would be around 40k credits per ship 2mil/40k means that the salvager would have to salvage 50 ships within 2 months to make his money back although he would be getting a lot of extra components in the process. (unless people are smart and salvage everything except for blocks before selling) If they wanted to salvage everything by hand they would need to only salvage 1/4th the amount of ships for the same profits 50/4 12.5.
Ahh didn’t see the 70 RP, not sure how hard it is to get 70 RP in 2 months.
Can’t see any exploits.
One thing I would ask is that there is an option without any RP cost that is lower than 70% that can salvage from anywhere for PvP guys that need to salvage pvp bases (Since we won’t have any RP from all our deaths.) Unless maybe loss of RP on death is removed (Crosses fingers )
I thought that would be great. RP for updates are ok! Perhaps 70 RP in a 2 Months season is a little bit too much. but we would see. Perhaps 3-4 Million Credits and 30 RP? Makes Credits more worthy again
That tool would be funny!
Looks good
But 70RP in one saison could be a bit high and also the devices back wouldn’t make sense for many reasons in my opinion (to much space in ocd required and devices not really valuable…)
Maybe could be adjusted to 20-30 RP without devices.
So for the first iteration i will stay at level 2.
Great thanks for that!
I think the general idea here is good! However I also think the cost to use such service in this discussion is to steep to actually bother. The main purpose for this in my opinion is to cut down the players grinding overall in this game so he has more time to actually play the game.
With the current discussed posts it seem to me that we are only re-placing one sort of grinding with another. The ship has already been grinded for with harvesting resources, cooking in factory, loaded with ammo, fuel, O2 and so on. If we are being penalized alot to use the scrapping service I might as well go back to my thrusty multitool…
For that question you first have to know why we have it in first place. Then you might know the answer yourself
That is an important overall point.
Who knows how the RP works in 6.0, hm!?
You think to much in “grind” terms. There is no game where you can get into the fun straight away… Counter Strike you need money for weapons, Battlefield you need to unlock better upgrades and even in Quake you need first to run to the gun spot. Whatever you define as grind.
When we were having large fights on Armageddon, or on other planets for that matter, the scrap ships would really add up and tended to just sit around until folks had time to tear them down. These ships contributed to the lag as they had to be rendered in and their individual block damage had to be calculated, etc.
In having this service, I imagine that minimizing the cost will allow players to take advantage of the service more frequently, clear scrap off the battlefield, and lessen lag. It appears to me that it would be more efficient for all involved to keep the cost down and the battlefield cleared of scrap.
I like the idea of levels. I think credit wise it is ok (probably even a bit on the cheap side for 70% return), RP is a lot if you consider the (I think too) short season. By the time you have 70 RPs to spend, you are probably already halfway through the season.
So, either make a persistent system, where you can grow you skills over seasons (make the last levels extremely expensive like OCD) or I would lower the RP cost for a non-persistant system. And yes, create a higher granularity (more levels). I would say 5 (10% increase of returns per level) in a non-persistent solution or 7-10 with a persistent system
Really excited to see the possibility of the scrapping service coming to HWS and the excitement level from everyone on it!
I dropped an opinionated suggestion on another thread:
After reading through this thread, i find myself starting to sway towards having it as a EGS server command over having a physical Scrapyard/Shipyard.
The drawback I feel however would be that the service inevitably be much harder for the newer / smaller factions if terms of use is set specifically in a currency only usage case (only RP/only CR/combination of both). Therefore part of me still feels like a set physical location/structure is the only way to cater to our younger and smaller factions.
I am also really loving the level breakdown systems into tiers.
The following suggestions will be slightly outlandish opinions and also based on having 2 options: 1. EGS SaaS (Player Command) 2. EGS SaaS (Server owned Location/Structure)
Basing some suggestions off @TheRaven 's point 5# where there is a difference in returns using EGS Player (Scrappers) vs using EGS Server SaaS. Although my opinions are somwhat flipped from his where there is a balance on Risk:
Player scrap SaaS has lesser returns but based off their EGSR levels but safer.
Server scrap SaaS has higher returns and speed but Dangerous due to being ambushed and Mugged at transit locations.
With these considerations, it is actually also viable if it is flipped either way. —Some duplicate opinions from my other post—
EGS service command to be used anywhere. (Cross-hair on said structure)
EGS server command to be used when ship is parked within Admin scrapyard structure
Cost of Use
Based on 1st release feature set by Rex or pay per use suggestion by Kogami
1. X Credits per use
Based on 1st release feature set by Rex or pay per use suggestion by Kogami
2. X Credits for time used
Based on 1st release feature set by Rex or pay per use suggestion by Kogami
3. Drill charges/ MT charges per use
Based on 1st release feature set by Rex or pay per use suggestion by Kogamil
4. General "take off your pants" servitude to the server.
Deconstruction Time
HV Class 1 1min
HV Class 1 1min / Diff times for diff structures
Ref Below for suggested breakdown
Ref Below for suggested breakdown
SV Class 1 3min
SV Class 1 2min / Diff times for diff structures
Ref Below for suggested breakdown
Ref Below for suggested breakdown
CV Class 1 12min
CV Class 1 10min / Diff times for diff structures
Ref Below for suggested breakdown
Ref Below for suggested breakdown
Resource reimbursement
1. Player inventory ONLY (keep your inventory EMPTY!)
1. Server depositing into player inventory (if its full, you lose the excess!)
2. OCD Only (your responsibility for space in OCD)
2. Server creating a shipyard package which players retrieve akin to fa:supply or am:getall
3. --- out of ideas ---
3. Orbital Shipyard Account which has to be retrieved in 7 days of first usage. Does not survive wipes.
Resource reimbursement Calculation
1. A flat X% of each resource (based on EGSR level)
1. A flat X% of each resource (based on Scrapyard/EGSR level)
2. X% of each resource based on pre determined % for each ore. (Eg: 50% returns on FE, 10% returns on Sath)
2. X% of each resource based on pre determined % for each ore. (based on EGSR level/Scrapyard)
3. Credits. (Awesome but a headache because it encompasses the above pointers and HWS team needs to have another % table created and maintained for each ingot type for this. ahem economics).
3. Credits. (Same issue for calculations. Based on EGSR level/Scrapyard).
4. 0 reimbursement for on-board fuel, ammo and any other non ship parts.
4. 0 reimbursement for on-board fuel, ammo and any other non ship parts.
2. EGS Deconstruction Time
(suggestion to up to class 4) –Suggested for players to BE ONLINE– Do note that I have not thought about the deconstruction times for EGSR levels.
EGS Recycle SaaS (Player Command)
EGS Recycle SaaS (server/location/structure)
HV Class 1
2mins
1min
HV Class 2
8mins
5mins
HV Class 3
15mins
10mins
HV Class 4
28mins
20mins
SV Class 1
2mins
1min
SV Class 2
8mins
5mins
SV Class 3
18mins
14mins
SV Class 4
29mins
24mins
CV Class 1
15mins
10mins
CV Class 2
25mins
21mins
CV Class 3
35mins
30mins
CV Class 4
50mins
40mins
3. Resource reimbursement calculation
Opinion: I am in favor of @The_Godchild 's opinion on resource returns in form of Ingots
Opinion: I am in favor of @Stunner666 's opinion on resource returns and usage not using RP
Opinion: As per previous pointer @TheRaven on resource returns player VS server, it is viable to be flipped either way.
Option 1: Flat X% for each Ingot Type and/or Flat XCR for each Ingot Type (choosing allowed if it can be added to the EGS recycle command) For example: egsresingot or egsrescr. Maybe even to the extent of giving +1 RP per CV recycle. (Maybe not just kidding here)
Ingot % EGSR(1)
Ingot % EGSR(2)
Ingot % EGSR(3)
Ingot % Server EGSR
CR EGSR(1)
CR EGSR(2)
CR EGSR(3)
CR Server EGSR
Iron
50%
60%
75%
60%
0.1
0.25
0.5
0.2
Copper
55%
65%
85%
65%
0.3
0.25
0.5
0.3
Cobalt
55%
65%
85%
65%
0.3
0.25
0.5
0.3
Silicon
55%
65%
85%
65%
0.3
0.25
0.5
0.3
Neodymium
45%
55%
70%
55%
0.5
0.6
0.7
0.55
Sathium
45%
55%
70%
55%
0.5
0.6
0.7
0.55
Erestrum
40%
50%
70%
55%
0.5
0.7
1
0.6
Zascosium
40%
50%
70%
55%
0.5
0.7
1
0.6
Plastic Raw Mat
60%
70%
80%
70%
0.1
0.3
0.5
0.4
Cement
60%
70%
80%
70%
0.1
0.3
0.5
0.4
Option 2: X% of each resource based on pre determined % for each ore. With fluctuations on a global resource table available via HWS Connect (aka fake economy). Table can exist if further down the road there is a “SELL BACK to Server” Function. “Mother Earth & The Universe created Humans because they couldn’t create plastic by themselves. She’ll wipe them off when there is enough.” - UnagiKing
Ingot % EGSR(1)
Ingot % EGSR(2)
Ingot % EGSR(3)
Ingot % Server EGSR
CR EGSR(1)
CR EGSR(2)
CR EGSR(3)
CR Server EGSR
Iron
50%
60%
75%
60% + ≤20%
0.1
0.25
0.5
0.2 + ≤0.3
Copper
55%
65%
85%
65% + ≤20%
0.3
0.25
0.5
0.3 + ≤0.4
Cobalt
55%
65%
85%
65% + ≤20%
0.3
0.25
0.5
0.3 + ≤0.4
Silicon
65%
75%
95%
75% + ≤20%
0.3
0.25
0.5
0.3 + ≤0.5
Neodymium
45%
55%
70%
55% + ≤30%
0.5
0.6
0.7
0.55 + ≤0.45
Sathium
45%
55%
70%
55% + ≤30%
0.5
0.6
0.7
0.55 + ≤0.45
Erestrum
40%
50%
70%
55% + ≤40%
0.5
0.7
1
0.6 + ≤0.4
Zascosium
40%
50%
70%
55% + ≤40%
0.5
0.7
1
0.6 + ≤0.4
Plastic Raw Mat
60%
70%
100%
70% + ≤30%
0.1
0.3
0.5
0.4 + ≤0.3
Cement
60%
70%
100%
70% + ≤30%
0.1
0.3
0.5
0.4 + ≤0.3
4. Others
Shipyard should also hopefully aid in helping create a start point for the creation of Player Ship Auctions (with web function to upload images/desc via HWS Connect. Ouch), Player Ship Sell-back (GG $ table in point E3) or even a Player Ship Insurance (this one’s probably too silly) system!
5. Shipyard/Scrapyard Existence (My wishful thinking)
Notes: SaaS = Service as a Solution EGSR = Elemental Galactic Service Recycle
resingot or egs