Like i said, i was referring SPECIFICALLY to P.V.E. I have an issue with that side. Camping PVP traders is fairplay in my mind, well played to RED for holding onto 'em . Alas real life got in the way of me purging the enemy alliace from those planets. 
Best regards
Wise.
Can we all please stop arguing about the traders for like 5 minutes and actually make calm, cool headed proposals on the changes. Arguing about the traders and how the system is broken on a thread about the EB change will just tell Rexxxus “Hey, we’re all ok with these changes but the traders!! Oh man, they need to be nerfed next!” And so he’ll push the EB changes thru and then nerf the traders anyway.
Try to keep in mind that this thread is about EB changes ONLY.
Oh and the Supergate changes too but no one has even mentioned those lol
Whatever they were doing in PVE, it wasn’t an issue for me or anyone interested in trading. There were always items from the PVE trader in the HWS market, both in NA and EU, around 400k credits each. PVE players were definitely making some money by visiting the traders and reselling to PVP players or factions.
Sure, this is what I think.
EB change is nice. Traders are nice. GG is nice. That all works. The only thing missing is to actually remove gold from OCD and stop players and factions from storing money in the OCD instead of the EB.
Need money?
Need to save money?
Simple as that.
You were very lucky in that case, i heard of multiple reports.
To me PVE traders should not be camped; end-off.
Be careful trying to limit the flow of the discussion, changes such as the banks will have vast consequences, especially upon NPC trading, it will be interesting to see the symbiotic relationship change between NPC trader use and Bank interest.
Looking at the analytics can be beneficial, however it’s important to remember that most people don’t frequent NA AND EU for interest, for the vast majority it was only on one server. Most of us have very extensive jobs and families to worry about; i myself am a victim of a lessening amount of time to play, whereas many changes are pushing towards ever-increasing participation, this i don’t mind, it’s the reset of the participation per season that I have issue with, in my mind a 500-700mil feature should probably not reset per season lol. 
At the very least, less expensive options should be available (cue HWS ingots) for those wishing to save-changes.
The best games always have MORE than a single route/playstyle in order to achieve one’s own goals
Best regards,
Wise.
TL:DR: We shouldn’t judge the average playstyle on that of the top 1%. The vast majority of players don’t have the time or the interest to ‘tryhard’ the game like some, therefore we should be thinking about that middle 75% that just poddle on!
And that is one of the issues I tried to point out. Buying EB levels is rediculous given the investment costs. Specifically the RP. The credits is a non-issue because GG is a thing. RP however is a good bit harder to come by if you don’t have much time to log in every day and farm RP from crates or other sources.
Don’t rule out credits as a non issue for everyone. I’m a PVPer but most PVers will not go near GG with a barge pole, and they’d be correct to do-so, nor would single players. A large part of the fun of Empyrion and of HWS in particular is that there are multiple ways of achieving a single achievement, this should be encouraged, and not ‘streamlined’ (a posh word for reduced.)
This applies to Fasgort’s previous post also:
You’re absolutely correct. I shouldn’t have done that but that was just to point out the absurd RP costs because everyone seems to be focused on the credit costs. That being said, credits can be quite easy to earn for those who are willing to venture into PVP or pay to be escorted thru PVP. Once upon a time that was a viable strategy for PVE players to pass “safely” thru PVP zones but no one does that anymore. The RP costs are going to be hefty for almost everyone PVE or PVP players alike.
Problem is, if you make more methods in PVP to make money, the hotspots stop being hotspots. GG was the only PVP hotspot where players could actually find a reason to do PVP. Now it can be split in a few more spots.
How is Rexxxus supposed to enforce that, tho? People reporting with videos? How much time is considered camping? What if I go and come back every 5 minutes? What rules would you suggest?
Fair, I think Rexxxus mentioned many times he would add more ways to gain RP. But I thought everyone was mostly discussing the credit cost (and how “efficient” is to buy EB levels with your credits).
Mining while being ganked by players is not really fun. GG really sounded to me like the kind of planet your faction controls while your faction teammates mine the entire thing dry.
Please explain to me what do you need for pvp that costs more than 500k every day.
And don’t list garage ships. If they are such a game changer they should be changed asap.
That’s alright, I just wanted to point it out, i hope i didn’t sound overly pedantic I miss the days where the PVP factions would willingly escort PVE ones, PVP has certainly become a more ‘toxic’ environment, but that most certaily is a topic for another thread ahaha!
Respectfully, i’ve been around since 5.0 (and earlier) so I know full well how one maintains hotspots, GG was the result of one of our suggestions, as-was Armageddon, however I’m glad that newer players are considering this also. I certainly feel this season that an excessive number of PVE gold-spots reduced the number of PVP hotspots, but i still believe there should be highly limited means of gaining rare resources in PVE for starter players to make PVP slightly more forgiving,.
Ultimately to make a planet valuable it has to have valuable resources, to do that one must make those resources less available than they otherwise would be. To me this means further nerfing the NPC traders, as they are still extremely generous. (By this I mean the ones that give resources, not the ones that give statues.) Or at least maybe implement a limited amount of packages to be bought each day, or hell even a bidding system for the packages, but i’m getting ahead of myself… 
To the first one, to each their own haha. To the second bit you are right that folks seek to control GG, which makes it a perfect hotspot! It was always designed for the bigger factions, which certainly achieved its intended effect!
Best regards,
Wise.
Ok, let’s go down the list then. Z and E for railgun ammo because it takes ENTIRELY too much of both to make a measly amount of ammo. Magnesium for just about every type of explosive round. Fuel. Sathium. Iron. Copper, for some reason (I keep running out). But mostly it’s resources for ammo or ammo itself. I PVP quite a bit and probably blow through about 1M worth of ammo per day.
With Strict Regards to Ammo Cost I agree: Ammo cost in terms of resource expenditure is too high, in my mind it puts folks off of PVP. Too much to lose if they die, especially with how much ammo is required to take out enemy ships.
However i bought it up not too long ago and i think folks decided to wait and see how it went, we’ll have to return to that discussion at some point. Here it is if you want to see it: Ammunition is too Expensive for New players (More shameless self promotion by wiseman LOL!)
For 300k you can get 7,5k rail ammo. They rest you can easily craft using resources from oam. If you are short on something like magnesium just buy it from market, it is cheap as dirt or use trader for something like erestrum gel.
I could see how you would have problems with CV ammo, but SV ammo is cheap as dirt.
My biggest problem with eb is the fact that it destroys economy in combination with NPC traders. It is like spawning ammo and materials in creative. It doesn’t matter what Rexx puts on PvP planets if everyone gets eb:interest and hundreds of thousants of ingots in devices and components every day.
Yeah, Rails and Homing Rockets, arguably the 2 most used weapons in PVP (excluding Pulse Lasers for obvious reasons) and have the HIGHEST resource cost vs output of any ammo type in the entire game. I’d be ok with the resource cost if you got more ammo out of it. I mean 20 Sathium and 4 Z Alloy for 10 rounds? Nah. I’m not okay with that at all. For 50 rounds? Sure. Sounds solid to me.
Yeah you make a really valid point, for sure there needed/may still need to be further debuffs against NPC traders, they’re basically an admin shop, and an admin shop can destabilise the player economy.
I agree. More being said, it doesn’t cap big factions/veteran players at all because of passive interest farm.
Yeah, the whole prior ammo discussion ended when people said ‘thisll make it easier for veterans’. My counter-point would be that it is already exceedingly easy for veteran factions (and always will be due to massive stocks of ammo made in earlier seasons.) to outproduce new players in terms of ammo.
Therefore a return to the ammo discussion could be interesting for the future, but primarily for another thread, even though it links to this one Also good to see you around still Polarity!
Best regards
Wise.
Lowering ammo cost is probably a good idea.
But idk what is the goal. Make it impossible for people to live out of interest and oam or just making the resource income less crazy.
Yeah that’s a good question. I’m not too sure myself on that one!