If this happens again make sure to screenshot and report it as this is an illegal offence and if it’s a known player doing it who has done it before then it can even be bannable. People have had their accs wiped for ‘tackling’ and stopping enemy ships from moving.
Best regards
Wise.
Great ideas and yes this is a survival game you start with basically nothing and fight your way up; but later on trade/selling stuff becomes part of that survival so yes a good economy makes the game better.
Traders should compliment player trading and be there for players to make money off so they can upgrade stuff and move on to PVP or be a master merchant.
Having a mining economy gets players into building HV or SV miners or buying garage ships to mine. eventually PVE players venture into the rich PVP zones. Piracy and PVP fights then occur and the economy grows so yes have a system where ore can be sold to traders…and as ore gets sold to the server it will become less common and players will pay a little more. The market is jammed pack with stuff right now and sales are slow because players will only buy so much.
POIs are a great source of income and should be restocked to reflect risk, anyone that has done the phoenix poi knows what Im talking about. POIs are free stuff (after ammo costs) and allow a lot of materials to be put in your factory or sold in market-The commodities is a great part of the game but needs some improvement.
I like Davids ideas we really need multiple ways to play on this server and be successful. Our faction like many has people that PVP/PVE/Build/POI explore or just sort of hang out and run around a bit-It does not matter that person is happy doing their thing.
So have multiple pathways for a person to achieve the golden OCD 10! to me that is the end game goal and just enjoy playing of course. Having spent seasons sometimes on GG mining yes you can make easily a million in an hour but after a while you fall asleep so really its not always about making money its about fun!
Eton is a fun event where your whole faction earns a million plus credits and 100 RP so there are things that make you rich quick-not to mention all the loot there and resources.
One idea i proposed to Rex was a zirax treasure ship fleet event that randomly moves through pvp/pve space requiring a faction to take down and plunder…of course in pvp u might have competition -stuff like that would be great. Soace needs more stuff to do in it and bring players out to explore.
lots of good ideas in this forum
I like some of the ideas here, especially about making the easy, medium, hard & PvP risk rebalance. POI’s need a major overhaul in the amount of loot you get, so it sounds like you are on the right track there. Perhaps the loot tables should have things more in line with their names as well, like the abandoned mine should give a large quantity of ores and ingots. Abandoned drone bases should give large amounts of SV components and weapons. At any rate, the reward table in general for POI’s needs to be greatly increased and reworked.
Where you start to lose me is the economic events. I do not see a counter balance to what would be just more supply of game currency and a reduction in supply of a certain resource. This is inflationary, something that has been identified as an issue already. Like I had mentioned in a different post, I think that there should be paid instance access portals to timed ore mining missions. That serves to satiate market demand given a certain price threshold.
Other economic strategies (pricing floor, ceiling and stability) need implementation and time to prove themselves out, before adding in random market destabilizations. I have given suggestions on how to accomplish this, but can elaborate more if desired.
Also, for those calling for a split of PvP and PvE servers, that is a terrible idea. PvP and PvE work wonderfully together. The only way PvP doesn’t get stale is when new players enter. New players cannot enter if there is only PvP and get instantly crushed. Similarly, PvE is less exciting without a market to sell to. A PvE player’s #1 customers are PvP’ers. Separating the two is folly. Additionally, there is no more “survival” past a few weeks of game play without PvP. Drones and Zirax are easy to kill and irrelevant once you have a decent base set up.
Lastly, survival/PvE/PvP all require an economy to function properly. Without a centralized marketplace that is well regulated, supplied, frequented and controlled the rest of the gameplay is vastly more arduous and not in a good way. Markets create themselves when two or more parties are interested in exchanging goods & services. Real life man-made markets and economies are an invention of necessity… the need to survive. Economy and on-going survival in a resource constrained situation are inseparable.
The most prudent questions to ask right now are: what type of game do we all want to be playing? What is the best way to make an economy that works well for all play styles? What does that look like? How do we make that last? Where are we now? What needs to change first? How do we prevent abuse/exploitation? What are the best methods for keeping gameplay interesting through the economy?
Thanks for your consideration.
I for one have little interest in the economical side of the game in HWS. I just am not one of those who likes to spend hours making and selling resources and products. I find it too much of a grind. The only reason I do things like mine gold is to have enough money to buy certain services and occasionally buy a garage ship. I do, however, like to do POIs and have a go at PvP, which requires resources. But I prefer to be self sufficient even with this, and I mine my own elements and make my own ships and other stuff. As a result the economy passes me by in the main. I do buy and sell on occasions, but I am likely to do it less if prices go up in the way rail gun bullets have in the last couple of days. Unlike those who use them for the deconstructed resources I use them for shooting with, and it seems that I am being punished for the mis-use of others, which is a shame. Thankfully I buy them quite rarely so it affects me little, but the principle should be that players buy things to use for their intended purpose rather than breaking them down for profiteering.
Having said all that I hope that @h1myname1sdav1d manages to make a success of the economy with his ideas and new perspective.
You think that took a long time? Try it today - you’d be lucky to get 15-20k per hour. It’s just not worth the very high risk.
This is the absolute first priority for fixing the economy - fix mining which is badly, badly, badly broken at present. If nothing else, just put it back to straight vanilla settings so that regular vehicles are as good as vanilla and specialized HWS ones are better - not specialized HWS vehicles are barely as good as vanilla and regular ones are worthless.
As for the overall economy, I commented on the last inflation thread and got lots of agreement but apparently no notice or response from the devs that the problem isn’t that there’s too much money, it’s that there’s not enough for wealthy players to spend it on. Tightening the money supply, as with the current horrible mining nerf, just punishes players who aren’t there yet without doing anything to address the problem, because filthy rich players and factions will still be filthy rich. That just creates a club of already wealthy players that it’s impossible for anyone to attain, which is very bad for game play.
As for PvE/PvP, they should absolutely not be separated, in fact, they should have more complex interaction than they do now. For one thing, I find it very strange that in HWS the developed economies are all found in pirate zones, because that is the opposite of how it has always worked in all of human history. Are the pirates today all lurking around New York and London to prey on ships from Somalia? No, it’s the opposite! Pirate - PvP - areas should be very poor but have very rich resources that make it worth people’s while to risk the pirates to get them (or, as with Somalia and Indonesia today, choke points for travel between safer and more prosperous areas, but HWS can’t have that with the map being all PvP on one end and all PvE on the other). You should be selling those resources in PvE systems because wealth, law, and stability always go hand-in-hand. PvP players should have to come to PvE space to sell their booty for a good price, that would add some real teeth to the penalty for being guilty - if you’re guilty, you either sell for much lower prices or have to go through a middle man. That would then add opportunities (with corresponding risk) for players willing to be that middle man.
I don’t mess much with NPC traders, but they seem very broken. Is there any conceivable point to a package with 20,000 warp drives or shield generators other than to deconstruct them to sell the resources? That’s an economy that’s so broken you have to go back to the Soviet Union to find a real world equivalent that broken! Anytime finished goods cost less than the resources required to make them something is very wrong.
I’m going to be the black sheep in the room here, and bring up an aspect that I know virtually no one will like and will cause a civil war.
The IDEA of a working economy is fine and dandy. Every game should have one. But with HWS in particular, the server owner has shot himself in the foot wanting to go in this direction and will force some very hard decisions to be made.
If we were to start a brand new season with all the market changes that are discussed, what would happen? The market would crash, and over-inflation would run rampant on any and all resources. Why is this? Because there are enough players that have Billions in credits and lvl7+ OCD’s loaded to the brim with resources, materials and everything else to last several seasons. This is not conducive to creating any sort of functioning market at all.
One of two things will happen. 1) the market will be flooded with materials by those who have OCD’s full of resources, thus completely snuffing out the newer players from the market by driving prices to rock bottom. 2) Prices on the market will be sky-high, out of reach of newer players due to the fact that the economy will be driven by those who have those billions of credits saved up. We all know that when people have more money in a game, inflation just doesn’t stop and we end up paying 1000 credits, or more, for one iron ore.
The problem HWS has to figure out, is what do they do about all that merchandise and money. If they truly want a functioning economy, most of that merchandise and money needs to be deleted. But then, they have to deal with all those people that will scream bloody murder, because they spent real money on pixels…
So, I guess the real question they need to ask themselves is ‘…to be an economy, or not to be an economy…’
Everything after they answer that question, will be the easy part.
Pretty sure prices are regulated by supply and demand. If prices are too high you either have a demand problem or a supply problem or both.
Yeah pretty sure you cannot buy OCD7+. You can buy upto 5 but you can’t fill it with RL money purchases. What you CAN buy is bank level 5 which would flood the market with credits and cause massive inflation… oh shit that is what is happening. So basically OCD has nothing at all to do with it, but 1.5 million credits per day for nothing MIGHT.
Right on.
Be very careful going after interest…it has been gunned for in the past multiple times and never fails to create a (rightful in my opinion) outrage.
The Elemental Bank is an investment just like the OCD, but instead of having the passive storage ability it has the active interest ability. Nobody is getting that interest for nothing.
They have paid an enormous amount of money and RP and are currently storing enough money to earn that interest.
Furthermore, interest allows those who have invested heavily to be able to make a small amount of money daily and benefits our players who have large working commitments. Without this, they would have no real way of being able to fight day in and day out and frankly PVP would be much smaller without them.
So please don’t consider interest to cost ‘nothing’…It costs the following…
Nothing in life is free, and neither is that interest. You’d have a more convincing argument of doing away with daily loot than you ever will with doingaway with interest I’m afraid.
THAT SAID…I’d be curious in seeing some sort of ‘tax’ applied to interest to reduce its effectiveness on condition that this ‘tax’ would be counterable via the HWS Skill tree. That’s one possible compromise I’d be willing to make.
Best regards,
Wise.
I think interest should work like it works in the real world. Which is you don’t just get free interest out of nothing. The money you get interest on from the bank is being used by the bank to lend to other people at an interest to the bank.
For example, a bank pays you 1% rate cash on your savings accounts. Customers who get auto loans pay at least 4 percent (or more, depending on their credit scores and other characteristics of the loan. That means the bank earns at least 3% on those funds — possibly much more than that.
About how bank interest works: https://www.thebalance.com/how-banks-make-money-315473
Here is pretty much everything you need to know about how banks and interest works. https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-interest-315436
I think you’re risking conflating our in game galactic bank with reality, and in my experience blurring the lines is rarely a good thing. Especially as different banks around the real world will work differently. Whereas in HWS we’re lucky to have a single unified bank. Like I said over on my skill tree suggestions there could possibly be ‘skills’ that could change the interest rates for more or less in exchange for a positive/negative debuff.
I don’t think we should implement real life mechanics into our in game banking system (Although I appreciate your passion.)
Real life is depressing enough for most of us right now!
(Impending climate and food crisis, Brexit, Boris Johnson as Prime Minister of the UK…I could go on!)
Best regards,
Wise 
Nah excuses. The point of my suggestion is so the model could be used as an example and perhaps expended in the future. Like Auto loans could be about players getting a loan of credits to buy a mining ship or something like that. And then with that ship you can pay your loan back in either products like ores at market value of course or credits with the owed interest in both cases. Players could also use the bank as an insurance as well.
Ahhh so like an expansion to the overall features of the bank? I’d be up for that as long as it didn’t come at the expense of interest.
So your proposed features would be:
Loan service.
Different forms of dynamic payment of said loans.
Insurance (It’d be awesome to be able to like take out insurance on a garage ship or something, sort of a 1-day long buyback guarantee ahaha in case it gets damaged!)
I’d be up for those three, as long as interest continues in its current form. Also your ideas could help add to the skill tree idea as well, Im not sure if you’ve seen it but here’s a link if you haven’t…
Best regards
Wise.
And we can also expend it to something that Rexx has also said before about making a kind of Stock market for the game. Something like the screens below:
This first one is from Eve online:
I look at that mess and all I see is reasons not to bother with the market lol…
That’s not completely true. Since all that is needed is to pay 15 EU to get bank level 5 and then you just have to type EB:interest. You don’t even have to ever farm an ounce of gold. Between voting and daily rewards your EB account will fill up fast. Another donation and you keep 100mil credits. HWS is NOT and I repeat NOT pay to win. But, you can pay to be rich. That is a fair statement.
As far as attacking interest payments, I don’t care about bank interest levels. I do not see a problem. Nor do I see the big deal in inflation. Don’t like market prices? Go farm. No resources around to farm on the like 12+ PVE planets and Asteroids? raise your OAM levels. I am just stating the obvious that OCD doesn’t effect the market as much as anyone thinks. It is mostly bank interest/gold farming and the amount of resources in the universe. Those two effect market prices. Remove all ways of making credits prices crash. Remove all ways of getting ores prices soar.
You only pay for EB. You need cash to get interest which you can’t buy. Also lets say you have the money. 1.5mil a day doesn’t make you rich.
Maybe not since wealthy/poor is relative. However, we have a server credit to ore ratio issue that is causing the inflation. Saying bank interest isn’t part of the issue because you like it (I do as well) is silly. I am told people can make millions trading as well. Can we make thousands of ore’s per day doing a trader mission? Not that I know of.
Since everyone hates the idea nerfing banking (Or even admitting its part of the problem) the next logical solution would be to boost OAM’s. We boosted OCD, boosted EB, but left OAM’s hanging in the wind. Maybe OAM level 20 that has 4 times the ores per hour? That would be both a credit sink and an Ore boost reducing inflation.
I think almost everyone here has missed the BIG picture. We are talking about having a viable economy. In order to do that, you cannot have a huge influx of material and money into a system, especially when one of the choices that was polled was making mining a viable job option.
The only way to make an economy work is by getting RID of all this influx of extra materials and money, not the other way around.
If they don’t, then all the work they want to do for a “new market system” will be a complete waste of time.
